Reanimator

[waSP]

I haven't submitted a new idea to Vintage in a couple months and I feel like I'm due to give a piece of my work to the community.  I'll be sharing my pet deck today for criticisms and improvements from the community.

If Chalice is as popular as people are predicting a combo-ish deck with diverse casting costs will be effective in the environment.  My deck is rather stable against Chalices so I thought this might be an opportune time to post it.

I take this deck to all the non-sanctioned proxy events held here.  I have an undefeated match record with it, although that is attributable to the very questionable  skill level of my opponents.  I do not believe that this deck can compete with Long.dec but I know it can keep up with Hulk and Mud, although the latter is a struggle that will test the skill of its pilot.

Here's my current list, with a sideboard that needs tuning.

NecroBenzo by Steven Petersen

Mana
        4 Badlands
        4 Polluted Delta
        4 Underground Sea
        2 Volcanic Island
        1 Swamp
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Sol Ring
Draw/Discard
        4 Bazaar of Baghdad
        2 Buried Alive
        2 Careful Study
        1 Demonic Tutor
        1 Ancestral Recall
        1 Entomb
        1 Time Walk
Phat
        1 Arcanis the Omnipotent
        1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
        1 Nicol Bolas
        1 Platinum Angel
        1 Symbiotic Wurm
        1 Visara The Dreadful
Reanimation
        4 Exhume
        4 Doomed Necromancer
        1 Reanimate
Fun
        4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
        2 Anger
Disruption
        4 Duress
        3 Cabal Therapy

Sideboard
        4 Red Elemental Blast
        4 Pyrostatic Pillar
        3 Fire/Ice
        3 Rack and Ruin
        1 Verdant Force

Onto a discussion of some of the odd choices I've made in designing this build.

The mana base has just been terribly kind to me.  I've hardcast every threat in the deck at least once, commonly plopping out Arcanis or Visara.  This gives the deck a strength against control that the ones sporting Dark Ritual try to overcome with speed.  The lone Swamp may not be necessary with B2B all but gone from the format.  It is a relic from older builds that has not needed adjusting.

Dark Ritual is lacking here because I despise the disadvantage you get for a minor tempo gain.  I find it unlikely that my opponent will be able to find the proper answer to my choice fat in a matchup and I adore consistency.  Without ritual the worst I get for dead cards are Careful Study and Buried Alive which still can serve a use.  The best Dark Ritual will get me is a hardcast Visara which is only good against TnT (near death), budget aggro (should be near death), and Mask.  As Illusionary Masks are relatively hard to come by this point is made somewhat moot.

The slot formerly belonging to Phantom Nishoba as the catch-all aggro slot is currently being held by the Angel.  She is worse against Sligh but may turn out to be better in the long run as she crushes the random aggros like Suicide and Stompy that always show up in some numbers.  She may also prove to be good against the Goblin decks that have been gaining popularity.

I have 4 Discard slots at the 0 cc, 3 at the 1 cc, and 3 at the 3 cc.  This mix has proven to give me the most consistent draws.  The Careful Studies will often help to find an early Bazaar serving as a pseudo Brainstorm (because of Squee) and also giving me another chance to pitch some fat.  The Buried Alive are very strong in both the Aggro and Control matchups getting a set of Anger, Fat, Squee, or Triple Squee for card advantage ownage.  *begin random story*  Hardcast Squee and Anger do far more damage than anyone would ever suspect.  I beat an Academy player with 1 Anger, 1 Squee, and a Doomed Necromancer once.  Neither of us could find our combo pieces, but my utility took the game home. *end*

4 Duress and 3 Cabal Therapy.  7 Discard slots has proven to be the right number in testing although the 4th Cabal Therapy may be added as the metagame shifts.

4 Doomed Necromancer.  He's creature, therefore he sucks.  Riiiiight.  This guy has been golden for me so far.  He can scare your opponent early on, and gives you the ability to bring back fat at the end of turn, sometimes a vital thing.  Reanimate would be the next best thing, but the life loss against Sligh for some of your bigger fats can be just devastating to try to overcome, the best you can do is get a nishy, and hope that they can't burn you out.

The single Reanimate is the 9th reanimation slot, formerly Necromancy's slot.  Oath of Ghouls also functions here, but I like diversifying casting costs.

Symbiotic Wurm over Verdant Force.  Against control getting the one fatty out to only have it be sentenced to the life of plowing has been tragic.  Cabal Therapy gives you an other option and demolishes Parfait (unless they run Moat or Orim's Prayer).  Plated Slagwurm may get this slot due to its untargetability.  If that's the case Verdant Force will move to the maindeck to improve the prison matchup.

I play 2 Angers.  Get over it, I like consistency.  It is as simple as if I get a Bazaar on the board, I want Anger in the grave ASAP.  It also gives you another option if you Buried Alive with one in hand.

This deck lacks Demonic and Vampiric Tutor.  Neither has a great use in the deck, fetching a piece that I intend to get through redundancy.  The tempo loss can be important.  maybe you could put Demonic over one of the Buried Alive.  I will test that.

The sideboard..

4 Slots hating combo.  This should likely be 5 or 6 to give me a good chance of winning the back leg of the series in case I don't get the early Nicol Bolas to shut them down.

Red Blasts are meant to help out the control matchups.  Hulk is tough, but you can slow down their kill with Red Blasts, keeping Tog's off the board.  It also helps against Gay little men and the random Phid decks that people enjoy playing.

Fire/Ice is amazing.  It is just amazing.  Against classic sligh it'll rule the board, giving you time to win.  Against Gobbos it can halt their early assault.  Against Mud it'll take out welders.  It's uses are too many..

The inclusion of Rack and Ruins seems to be an obvious thing.  If you don't get it.. well I don't know what to do with you.  Energy Flux may be better, but Suicide Smokestacks can take care of that, and I sometimes run low on permanents.

The Verdant is the 4th Rack and Ruin and is far more deadly when it hits the board.

I don't like Burning Wish because it bastardizes your sideboard and is like running 4 bad Demonic Tutor's.

I tried running it with Draw 7's (in fact that is where I started and I eventually streamlined it to this) but they served my opponent as well as they did me, rarely giving me time to kill them while I went crazy with Dragon Mage beatings.

This is my personal build, if you think it looks decent tweak it to your preferences and try it out, it should be fun.\n\n

[Matt The Great]

Would Woodripper work against the difficult Workshop matchup?

I don't think Oath of Ghouls does what you want it to do.

Other that that, I like it. But then, I've always liked Tinker decks.

[Maxx Matt]

The italian version of reanimator is only UB and works great for now

Decklist deleted. Please don't spam other people's topics with decklists.
-Jacob


The real problem of this deck is not combo deck (except for insante first turn kill) because in maindeck you have 8 discard spell to disrupt his hand and in sideboarded game discard goes up to 12 and you add also 4 null rod.

Stax is a terrible matchup since all your spell are sorcery (except dark ritual, ancestral and vampiric tutor) so a tangle wire can really kick your a$$. I think that in first game only a turn one verdant force or zombie infestation with at least 1 squee in hand can win this matchup.

Second game you must work on chain of vapor (maybe better play 3 in sideboard) to leave out of play tangle wire and sphere and then reanimate a big fatty or play an energy flux to shut off his threats...\n\n

[defe]

Hi, here in Spain I play Reanimator too, this is my version:

Decklist deleted. Please don't spam other people's topics with decklists.
-Jacob

MVP of this deck is Therapy, good to discard a fattie from your hand or savage disrupt the opponent.\n\n

[Crater Hellion]

I played reanimator until I switched to Dragon, a deck better in virutally all aspects. The reason you don't beat stax consistently is because you don't maindeck Verdant Force. Doomed Necromancer is trash too.

[wuaffiliate]

wasp, did you get tired of dragon mage? what were your experiences with him like?

also wurm is insanely good vs prison, ripper just isnt as fast.

[Methuselahn]

Quote She is worse against Sligh but may turn out to be better in the long run as she crushes the random aggros like Suicide and Stompy that always show up in some numbers.  She may also prove to be good against the Goblin decks that have been gaining popularity.

Quote
Fire/Ice is amazing.  It is just amazing.  Against classic sligh it'll rule the board, giving you time to win.  Against Gobbos it can halt their early assault.  Against Mud it'll take out welders.  It's uses are too many..

hmm,.. You only play this at the proxy tournaments?  I find it hard to believe there are alot of these types of decks in our meta during the 1 of 5 monthly type one tournaments that allow proxies (at Dreamers anyway.)

Everything else you wrote= \n\n

[waSP]

Wurm is insane until they drop the keg.  That's why the Force is better.  I am considering adding it maindeck.

Dragon Mage didn't do what he needed to do.  In nearly every case another Nicol Bolas would have served the same purpose.  He got cut for other cards (either reanimation, draw, disruption).  It's too long ago to remember.

Quote Doomed Necromancer is trash too.

Thank you very much.  My testing has proven that it is in fact very good.

One reason to play reanimator over Dragon is the fact that it doesn't lose to a single graveyard hating spell.  Enchantment removal owns you.  Crypt me?  I'll Buried Alive and take your hand.  Crypt you?  Scoop up the cards.  Style also has a part in my decision to play this deck.  It is far cooler to play with 7/7's fatties that DON'T take away all your permanents.  Swinging with a Legends Nicol Bolas against the tapped out control player is more fun than you could ever believe.

I've played Dragon as well and actually prefer Reanimator.  It is a more skill intensive deck that gives far more rewarding victories.  If i wanted to play straight combo I'd use Rector Trix or Long instead of Dragon.  Reanimator is aggro combo in how it plays.  Sometimes it'll Bolas you early and that will be that.  Other times it's a back and forth struggle.  

@ Methuselahn - I always play against a Sligh deck, every week, always.  I also played 3 fish decks at the last tournament.  IT can be a pseudo time walk against control in the early game cantripping and tapping them out of drain mana early.

[Crater Hellion]

That's cool, because my testing has proven doomed necromancer trash, which is why I brought it up. Graveyard hate doesn't own dragon that badly because of FoW and bounce, and the fact that some of the hate can even be played around. I wish you would not preach to me about "fun" or "skill" because as I said I have played both Dragon and Reanimator extensively.

[waSP]

What exactly was the problem with Doomed Necromancer?  Was he too slow for you?  Would you mind PM'ing me your last decklist.  I'd be interested in seeing how your build played.

[wuaffiliate]

i've never tried necromancer because ive never needed to. reaminate is fast and works, i guess necromancer can work too but i dont see any reason to have my recur to get swords'd or killed off somehow before i can use it. i know there are ways arround that, but reanimate is harder to stop.

[Rico Suave]

Quote (waSP @ Oct. 08 2003,21:03)One reason to play reanimator over Dragon is the fact that it doesn't lose to a single graveyard hating spell.  Enchantment removal owns you.  Crypt me?  I'll Buried Alive and take your hand.  Crypt you?  Scoop up the cards.  

The thing is, cards like Crypt aren't seen until after SB'ing, and after SB'ing it's quite easy for Dragon to switch into Verdant Force mode and pull the same reanimation strategy.

[Tristal]

A friend of mine plays a Reanimator-type deck, and his secret tech (Besides Zombie Infestation) is Karakas.  Uncounterable, no-you-are-not-Swordsing-my-guy tech.  I'm not saying it's amazing, but consider it.

[waSP]

I don't think that this is the thread for discussing the merits of Reanimator vs. Dragon.  I agree Dragon is the stronger deck of the two.  White Weenie and Sligh get lots of discussion despite the fact that they are both very sub optimal archetypes.  People find this deck to be fun so any attempts at developing it are good.

Reanimate will be getting hosed by Chalices in the next few months.  Maybe my build is ahead of the curve on updating the converted mana costs to get around Chalice.  Sligh and Stompy can cast a Chalice for 1, but not for 3.

Wu: If your opponent has a Swords to Plowshares, don't you find it more likely that they will save it for your fat instead of your threats?  He makes the deck harder to disrupt.  He does beatdown..  This quality is so underrated, I'm horribly suprised people don't consider it to be a merit.  2/2's aren't that bad in Vintage, you just can't build your deck around them.

Tristal: Karaks is cute, but it neither produces black or blue mana, nor does it count as a mountain.  That means its going to hurt my tempo.  You can't sacrifice too much tempo for consistency.  Cabal Therapy + Symbiotic Wurm do a similar thing, so I think have that covered.  The Slagwurm might be better in the anti-swords department, then you can run Verdant Force main.  I'm going to test that over the Demonic.  I didn't like that in testing.

[defe]

Well, my decklist is deleted, so, I am no able to compare the two. I do not understand why my deck is deleted. In other posts you can see a plenty of deck, each build possible from different people, but here, we only can see one.

Well, anyway, I have some questions to you waSP:

1.- Why 3 colors? I think going 2 color is better to the manabase, and going BR is the way to go. Control is not a problem for the deck (Bazaar with Squee owns Control). The only problem I see to the deck are Workshop Prison Decks, so red for a bit of hate is good.

2.- I use this creature:

1 Verdant Force
1 Akroma
1 Visara
1 Phantom Nishoba
1 Petradon
1 Iridescent Angel

Is Platinum Angel working good for you? I don't like his 4/4 body, and being an Artifact Creature make it more vulnerable. Being BR make me no able to run Nicol Bolas, and testing with Crosis, The Purger makes me thing that Crosis is not good, I never have 3 mana to pay for the discard effect.

3.- Have you considered going more fattie, 8 or 10 with mini combos with Triskelion/Reya, Silver Seraph, ...

4.- No ritual and doomed necromancer? Why? With Ritual you can put a fattie first turn really easy, or first turn necromancer. And if you see Ritual as a dead card, you can discard it with the Bazaar

5.- Why don't you switch Duress/Therapy to 3/4 not 4/3. Therapy in this deck is GOLD to disrupt, or discard from your hand if you need to. And you have Nicol Bolas...

Thanks, and excuse my english, I know it is not very good. \n\n