Consulting for restricted cards

[Rico Suave]

I'm curious as to what other people think about Consulting for restricted cards.  

Personally, I do it all the time, because it breaks so many games in half.  It will backfire occassionally, but that is completely overshadowed by the fact that Consult just got you the most powerful card in the deck.

For example, when playing suicide, Consult for Necro has won so many games when Consulting for anything else would not have mattered.

What are your opinions?

[hippie tourach]

I think most strong black players know that you can Consult for restricted cards when you need to. There are just some cases where it's stupid to take a 1/9 chance of losing outright just for a Necropotence, like when you have a good chance of winning anyway. Of course if the game is anywhere close to even or against you that 1/9 chance is nothing. So go for it.

In combo it's even more interesting, though. Often if you don't Consult for that one card your combo won't go off and you'll lose, so even if I have 20 cards left in my deck I play Consult.

[Thug]

I think you should ask this to (Arthur) Tindemans, he always Consults for Black Lotus during Tournaments and I have never see him fail one.

Personally I think it's an option, but should only be used as a last effort but that also depends on the deck off course.

Koen

[Tindemans]

When playing black green Void I did it just too often. But it never backfired.
Usually I was going for Lotus, I simply needed it sometimes to get Void or a Deed in play at that exact moment. I won two tournaments in a row in Castricum, also the biggest castricum event ever with over 90 persons.
I Consulted for restricteds over about 10 times I guess and it simply never backfired; once I did it for Necro, which should be stupid since you're gonna draw afterwards as well. I won by a long shot that game. Lately I even did it with Long once for Lotus last tournament, it didn't backfire at all, but I was in a losing position anyways.

EDIT: Mwhahah Koen you rule! Just ahead of me.\n\n

[Montana_Gamer]

i usually only do it for necro or will when i am in a losing situation, and it is the only way i can pull off a win. Although recently in my void deck i started running vamp tutor over demonic consultation.

[Smmenen]

In my not-so-humble opinion i think the correct answer is: it depends on the deck.

I think it is almost always an incorrect decision to consult for a restricted card in Long.  However, in Suicide or mask, consulting up Necro (or Lotus to play the necro in your hand), if you have nothing else is not a bad play, by contrast .

Steve\n\n

[hippie tourach]

I agree it depends on the deck, but I believe you have your decks switched.

When Long is running out of steam and needs (say) a draw-7 or a Black Lotus (when LED or Ritual will not do), there is often no choice but to Consult for a restricted card. If you don't, you'll lose, and if you do there is a distinct possibility that it will cause you to win. If the card you looked for turns up in the top 6, well, you would have lost anyway, so you can't say you made the wrong choice.

On the other hand, Suicide or Mask would often be making a mistake to Consult for Necropotence when it is not necessary for a win and it may in fact lose the game outright. If Necro is in the top 6 cards and you had a good chance of winning the game if you'd named Duress or Dreadnaught, then you just screwed up.

[VideoGameBoy]

Quote (hippie tourach @ Oct. 13 2003,12:57)On the other hand, Suicide or Mask would often be making a mistake to Consult for Necropotence when it is not necessary for a win and it may in fact lose the game outright. If Necro is in the top 6 cards and you had a good chance of winning the game if you'd named Duress or Dreadnaught, then you just screwed up.

Or bottom 6, for that matter.

I've done my share of restricted Consulting in Long - usually for Lotus, but occasionally for Mind's Desire - and it has only backfired on me twice in dozens of games: once when Necro was the bottom card, and another time when Lotus was in the top 6.  The time I consulted for Desire was with 2 x LED's in play, and it was about 18 cards down, and subsequently won me the game.

[aargyle]

Depends on the deck, depends on the situiation. If you are going to be hosed/lose son, why not? Especially in something like void, where you won't lose your combo piece by accident.

However, if you are not in trouble, you may not want to invite that trouble by going for it.

Depends also on playstyle. I rarely play consult, and almost never go for a restricted. I just don't like the 'randomness' aspect of it. (though to admit, I have rarely been hosed by it)

[wuaffiliate]

i constantly consult for necro or lotus in sui, i always have. but its a matter of timing really, you need to know when its a good time to do it.

i would cut DT before i ever cut consult.

[Smmenen]

Quote (hippie tourach @ Oct. 13 2003,12:57)I agree it depends on the deck, but I believe you have your decks switched.

When Long is running out of steam and needs (say) a draw-7 or a Black Lotus (when LED or Ritual will not do), there is often no choice but to Consult for a restricted card. If you don't, you'll lose, and if you do there is a distinct possibility that it will cause you to win. If the card you looked for turns up in the top 6, well, you would have lost anyway, so you can't say you made the wrong choice.

On the other hand, Suicide or Mask would often be making a mistake to Consult for Necropotence when it is not necessary for a win and it may in fact lose the game outright. If Necro is in the top 6 cards and you had a good chance of winning the game if you'd named Duress or Dreadnaught, then you just screwed up.

I was exaggerating the point on the Mask/Suicide deck for effect.

I never, ever, ever consult for restricted cards with Long.

[Azhrei]

Do the math and play the odds.

Always Consult if not doing so makes you lose.

[jpmeyer]

SPRING FORTH MY BURLY PROTECTOR!

[Dante]

Quote (jpmeyer @ Oct. 13 2003,20:11)SPRING FORTH MY BURLY PROTECTOR!

hah..who quotes Altran.....



blahblah

see above link for some context if you don't know what I'm talking about...heh

Dante

[Eastman]

I dunno, with all the wastelands running about, consulting for workshop might not be worth the risk.

[hippie tourach]

That might have made sense if Workshop was restricted...
...and if Workshop decks ran Consultation...

Quote SPRING FORTH MY BURLY PROTECTOR!

That reminds me, I gotta add 1 Kaervek's Spite to Suicide Black.

[Eastman]

[Humor] it's everywhere you want to be...

[Blackest Lotus]

I have rarely ever Consulted for restricted cards. But when I have, no other options avaliable, it has never backfired. As a Suicide player I usually Consult for something that will help improve my board position, rather than take a risk and try to win right away. Too many times have I almost consulted for a restricted something, and chose something else at the last minute, and then see that card in my top six. When I do Consult for a restricted card it is usually Yawgmoth`s Will instead of The Skull. I need to win right now instead of next turn. Consulting when you have 20 cards left in your deck is  

[herby]

check the odds and see if it's worth it.
if you're searching for someone to lock the game and the consult goes bad you can't be mad at yourself.

[Freddie]

Consulting (especially for restricted cards) can go wrong... I love to see it when it does too

In a few ante duels against a local sui player I saw him nearly deck himself 2 of the games for consulting for restricted cards.

Now those were some easy wins.

*Freddie kisses my opponents consult since it is so beautiful!*

Do what you feel is the right play, but be prepare to have your face smashed in by the headboard, if your opponent decides not to use the lube.

I hate that card!

[Arthur King]

LOL

Quote Do what you feel is the right play, but be prepare to have your face smashed in by the headboard, if your opponent decides not to use the lube.

thats an amazing quote

[Thug]

I once consulted for Phyrexian Negator, and realised a split second later that I sideboarded them out. Going through my whole library was a real torture.

At least I will never make that mistake again    

Koen

[Terevaune]

The best consult I ever saw was in an extended tournament about 3 years ago.  In one match - one person, playing trix - sawmp, consult for necro. - mills 4 illusions, 4 donates, 3 forces - he scoops.  Next round, same play, swamp consult for necro - mills 3 illusions, 3 donates, 4 forces.  Scoops when opponent shows him opening hand of 2 forces and other cards.

In another match, one player consulted for masticore before realising he sided them out.  

And lastly, one player had borrowed a survival deck to play in the tournament, and ended up making top 8.  After the tournament, he returned the deck and said "I like the deck, but why do you have an uncastable Squee in there?"

THe scary part was that the lowest rated of these players was still over 1775.

To get back on topic, consulting for restricted cards is generally ok.  You have to figure if it will probably win you the game 80% of the time and kill you 20%, those are pretty good odds.