Power Artifact in Keeper

[Mon, Goblin Chief]

I think, Keeper is not that much about consistency, but versatility, domination and brokeness. You don't wanna solve all problems the same way, as MonoU does, you wanna have the answer for all threads that might come your way, beating the oponent because the cards you play are usually better (more broken or versatile) then his. And even if you have multiples of all your kinds of spells, there still is a lot of randomness in the deck (eg the one Dismantling Blow). The Combo adds another point of versatility to the deck. In Keeper you keep opening hands you won't keep in any other deck, as you know they'll soon give you the solutions you need to stay alive until your advantage is big enough to take total domination. Well, that's the plan at least.
But if you're facing an extremly well build aggro-deck, you often won't have the time to wait that long. This is where the combo kicks in. It gives you another option to end the game, even if you aren't in total control and allows you to race, even if the board is extremly disadvantegious. I'll advice you to try it out, I won a lot of games I couldn't have won otherwise (I'd say about one in ten already lost games, like killing Sligh the turn before it would've burnt me out or killing TnT just before Jug&Co did there job) and it might have cost me about 5 games since I started playing it (which is for more than half a year, not counting abstinent times), including testing.
Did you really test the combo? And did you give yourself the time to get a feeling for the slightly different playing style (counting combo-parts in play, for example)? If you do, don't tutor for the combo kill, if it can't be completed that turn or you have everything to finish next turn. Play like you play normal Keeper, but watch the oportunity. Very often you'll have found the Monolith or Power some way through the game, while struggling to stay alive. Tutoring for Will then usually allows you to kill your opponent, may the Aggro-deck dominate the Board as much as it can.  
And about bad draws: There is one additional bad draw (as you Wasteland is not gonna help you much more than Monolith does.
In the control Matchup, you traded one not very usefull card (Fire/Ice cycles, but ties mana) against one, that's useless on it's own, but that may win you the game other times. Even in Keeper on Keeper there are usually times, where both of you are in topdecking mode and if you combo-kill then, you don't give your opponent 4 turns to deal with Superman, or worse, topdeck Will. In control on control, it's not great, but not totally useless, either. Against aggro (especially Sui and TnT) it's just great to have another option.

And yeah, I know it LOOKS very random. It just happens to work anyways.  

[Fishhead]

I got a chance to play it again tonite in the Thu nite tourney; I'm just constantly amazed by how this thing can just suddenly take off and win.  Definitely, if you doubt the power (its called *Power* Artifact, how can you doubt its power?! start with the Oath SB configuration.  Its outrageous for Keeper to be able to autowin on turn 4 against Aggro.  And you will be pleasantly surprised how often you can pull the combo together without really trying as well.

On another thought: Holistic Wisdom (in the Green KrOathan Keeper) was insane tonite.  I Ancestralled huge numbers of times and Strip Mine'd two Aggro decks down to nothing.  How good is it when every turn you draw both the Ancestral and the Strip Mine every turn?

[Big Blue]

I just posted a tourney report in the Tourney Forum. I won (split 1./2.) a Friday night tourney in Vienna with Trinity. I managed an incredible first turn Oath, second turn combo and third turn almost loss, but because I play 2 Reclamations I won that game - however, it was only a fourth turn kill, rather than a third turn kill...

I am not sure if Holistic Wisdom is better than Regrowth - in the tourney it did not make much difference, but Regrowth would have been slightly better. Also, Regrowth is an early game card and Holistic Wisdom - while incredibly broken once you go off - is rather slow. But I think I will give it another try in the next tourney (I definitely want to play Trinity again - it is addictive!).

Probably I was just lucky, but I performed better than the other Keeper player in Vienna (K.P.f.V. - sorry, Peter, couldn´t resist)

[Elric]

Quote I am not sure if Holistic Wisdom is better than Regrowth - in the tourney it did not make much difference, but Regrowth would have been slightly better. Also, Regrowth is an early game card and Holistic Wisdom - while incredibly broken once you go off - is rather slow.

I think the Wisdom isn't that slow. It cost only 3 mana and GG shouldn't  be a problem. And when the Wisdom is on the table you can use it when you have free mana.
I wouldn't cut Regrowth for Wisdom, I played both and it was okay.

The last time in Dülmen(Germany) I tried another card

Skeletal Scrying

and after testing and playing the tourney I don't know why I haven't played it since Odyssey release. It was really great, another X carddrawer as instant and not targeted.

I just read the tourney report and I wonder why you didn't play Dust Bowl.
The first tourny we played Trinity in Dülmen the Bowl won 2 games because I destroyed 7 lands in each game.
I destroyed about 30 lands in the whole tournament with the Bowl.

And I think it is also enough to play only one Morphling because he sucks.
I usually win only 1 out of 10 games with Morphling, not depending on the matchup. And 2 winning options where always enough for keeper.

You can find my complete decklist in Oscar Tans latest article,
You CAN Play Type 1 #61

[Big Blue]

I would like to play HW AND Regrowth. However, I am playing already a 61 card deck and I don't know what to cut. You seem to suggest that I could cut the
         second Morphling, but I am still winning most of games one with "honest Morphling beatdown" rather than combo. It is also a great blocker, kind of flying
         Moat. And it is blue...

         Actually, I like playing with as many blue cards as possible (but NOT mono-U) for better synergy with FoW/Mis-D and to reduce the colour-screw factor.

         Maybe I should point out the way my metagame looks like: the dangerous decks are mainly Sui/Pox/Nether Void, Sligh, Ophidian and the other Keeper player.
         Thus, all but one of the dangerous decks are mono-coloured. That's why Dust-Bowl is not so hot here in Vienna (although I played it in Chicago, since the
         metagame there was unknown to me).

         I have also thought about Skeletal Scrying, but I would no want to use it maindeck. In the SB, maybe. But then I would have to cut a Negator...

         Anyway, thank you for the link to the article and for your comments. I think, this whole archetype is still in an evolving state, so the "optimal" (or at least
         canonical) deck-list still has to be constructed.

[Fishhead]

The deck I played on Thu was actually Gerhard Markus' deck with very few changes.  (-1 TimeTwister, -1 Dust Bowl, +1 Merchant Scroll, +1 Wasteland).  

I cast Holistic Wisdom early (turn 4?) in one game; it definitely saved me in a way that nothing but a good Y-Will can.  The card is actually pretty comparable in some ways, except going nuts with it can be stretched over the next few turns.  Basically, the more mana the better you can abuse it, but with even 6 mana on the board you can cast Wisdom and Regrow and cast Ancestral which is always a good time.  So, it can be an early game card  -- as long as you have something good to abuse in your graveyard.  

As far as the second Morphling; I definitely understand the concern.  I had to pitch Power Artifact to an early FoW that night, which left me with one win condition.  Depending on my matchup, this could have been really bad news - trying to hardcast the combo against certain other control decks is a nightmare.  

As for the Dustbowl, what were your matchups like that you destroyed 30 lands on the night?  For Dustbowl to work, I would have to 1) face an opponent with duals 2) draw more land than them, or 3) be worth screwing them for color.  Curious about how it went in practice for you.

[Big Blue]

Elric: I just looked a Rakso´s article and saw your deck. I have a couple of questions regarding the SB
                            4 Oath of Druids
                            2 Krosan Reclamation
                            1 Scrying Glass
                            2 Duress
                            3 Call of the Herd
                            1 Compost
                            1 Enlightened Tutor
                            1 Aura Fracture

I don´t understand the Enlightened Tutor (I tried it before I had my 4th Oath as a subsitute and I never really liked it, so I am curious about your experience with it) and I am wondering about the Compost. To tell you the truth, after the tourney I was also considering Compost since there are so many mono-B decks here. But I did not want to "waste" that SB slot because it will weaken my anti-control part. What was the reason for you to play Compost ("It is good against mono-B" is not a sufficient reason  )?

IMHO going down to 2 Duress is a mistake, but then again a SB is even more metagame-dependent than a deck...

[Elric]

The first time I played Trinity I met 4 Keeper,2 combo and 1 TnT
and the Bowl won 2 games against Keeper and shut down a PandeBurst after I got control. One of the combodecks was AoS,
so I had 6 matchups with nonbasics.

I played the Compost because a friend had some bad matches against MonoBlack.
In that tournament I met 4 Sui, 1 Bazaar, 1 Worldgorger and 1 Tubbies. (This tourney I got some Mishra's with the Bowl and 1 Bazaar.)
And after all I think the Compost will leave the Sideboard again, I drew not 1 card with it.
The problem with Compost was that I had to topdeck it , because with a tutor I always searched for Oath.

I'm not sure about the Enlightened, in the tourney it was neither good nor bad.
In playtesting it was several times good to have it, but I think there are better cards for the Sideboard.

But I have the same problem with Mystical, it is never really good.
Is it a good idea to replace it with something else or perhaps going down to 60 cards?

[Big Blue]

If there were so many Keeper and/or TnT players in Vienna I´d also play DustBowl for sure - 4 Keeper players in a single tourney, what a metagame!

I think cutting Mystical is a severe mistake, and here is why:
1. It is blue (ok, not a strong reason, but always good)
2. It is an Instant (extremely good against Sui - the typical Hymn-respond with Mystical for Balance trick saves many otherwise lost games)
3. The card-disadvantage is compensated by the fact that you grab most of the times either Ancestral, Balance or YawgWin (or whatever saves you)
4. It is a tutor for your kill-cards (in case you hard cast the combo)
5. You can mystical for Demonic to get ANY card (e.g. the missing combo piece)
6. The 61 card issue should not be overrated; the difference to 60 cards is almost negligible for all practical purposes
7. In topdecking mode (happens from time to time) you can always Mystical for the mighty YawgWin

and surely you can come up with more reasons in favour of Mystical.

Enlightened, OTOH, just gets you mana, The Abyss,  Sylvan or PowerArtifact pre-SB and Oath post-SB; while the latter is nice I feel comfortable with 4 Oaths and all the search. Note, that the odd reasons listed above (1,3,5,7) do not apply to Enlightened and 2. is somewhat of less concern here (Enlightened for Oath in response to Hymn is ok, but usually not as devastating as the Balance trick).

I believe, that it is hard to test the benefits of a single Compost - I´d try to play 2 to test them seriously; however, I don´t know how to squeeze them into my SB yet...

BTW, a Sui-question: do you SB some of your Duress against Sui with NullRods? Because I thought that maybe it would help to get rid of the Rods proactively (since after Oathing if he drops a NullRod and you don´t have enough land to Will AND D-Blow you are dead).

[Fishhead]

Quote 3. The card-disadvantage is compensated by the fact that you grab most of the times either Ancestral, Balance or YawgWin

I was going to put it slightly differently, but this is the heart of the matter.  Mystical fetches all of your back-breaking cards, especially Balance which you need quickly against Aggro.  

The card disadvantage is a problem in some metagames, heavy control obviously, but even heavy combo can be a bit of a problem (what do you Mystical for against combo?  Ancestral?  Mana Drain?  Time Walk? .  Anyway, I can see dropping Mystical in some matchups, but I'd think the metagame would have to become extremely narrow before I'd think about dropping it from the maindeck.  

Makes me think back to the fact that the NGNY guys dropped Vampiric first in a Keeper-heavy metagame.  I'm not sure that the choice is clearly in favor of dropping one or the other (if you are so inclined) but its another option to think about.

[Big Blue]

Against control but especially against combo Mystical is superior to Vampiric simply due to its colour (FoW-food); I´d still keep it after SBing, as opposed to Vampiric.

Now, this is becoming slightly off-topic, but IMHO cutting Vampiric is a severe mistake in any metagame (siding it out for hate is ok, though) - it is your best card against Sui, which is usually present in control-heavy metagames and also shines against aggro; against control or combo you can just keep it until you want to cast it (because you will probably win if you grab that LoA/YawgWin/Mindtwist/Morphling/Dwarven Miner/Mox Monkey/...) or  until you have to cast it (because you have 7 cards in hand - in this case the card disadvantage effect becomes negligible) or until you have to cast it (because you need to topdeck <INSERT BROKEN CARD> to swing the game) or until you have to cast it (because you need the Balance after being Mindtwisted) or until... you get the picture, I guess

[Dozer]

Quote (PsychoCid @ Sep. 26 2002,17:46)Yes, consistency is a key thing for most decks.  Keeper doesn't break this rule as much as most people might initially think.  [...] Basically, the deck is either better off as a normal Keeper deck, or as combo-control, with enough search to pull it off consistently.

I was away from these boards for a while, but it's nice to see that Power Artifact has appearently stuck and is seriously considered. However, I want to address PsychoCid's concerns.

The odd thing is that from my experience he is partially right. Although it works, adding the two-card combo is pretty random, and an "in-between" Keeper like my build has not enough search to be able to devote enough resources to searching the combo while at the same time performing the usual bag of tricks that Keeper has to offer. I felt this lately especially against Suicide and a fast aggro R/G weenie-deck. I often came up one turn short: The next card I'd have drawn almost always could have saved me.
What struck me as especially annoying was that even if I had a Sylvan Library in play, I was not able to access this card. Against aggro, I usually permit myself to pay one time for the extra card and rely on the mini-impulse effect for the rest of the time, but this was not sufficient in those games. Against R/G, I feared being burned out, against Suicide I am paranoid against paying 8 life for two cards. (But I must say I was playing without sideboarding, so being burned out should not be a problem with SB CoP: Red.) Anyway, I felt I was not seeing enough of my deck, even with Ancestral and FoF etc. Mind you, I did not lose every game - I still was able to get hold of roughly two thirds of all games. But some of them were damn close, with me tutoring aggressively for the combo before they got the last blow in.

So, I thought what can I do? And then I remembered reading somewhere that jpmeyer had tested Compulsion in his Keeper, and so did I and I was amazed. I relegated the Sylvan to the sideboard for the control matchup (where it may eventually become a Scrying Glass?) and played Compulsion maindeck. Every card in my deck suddenly gained cycling! It felt good. There is alwas the odd card that you can't use right now or don't want to see, like a Gorilla Shaman against R/G without any artifacts, or an early D-Blow without white mana, or Wastelands against only Basics, or the Vampiric you're loath to pay for, or the 1st turn Power Artifact that does exactly nil for you. Against Suicide there is the extra benefit that if you are stuck with one card in your hand, can't play it for whatever reasons and have a Specter on your heels, you can cylce it away and see if you get something playable. At worst, Compulsion cantrips. And it gets you through your deck with (almost) double speed, allowing you to search whatever you currently need. Also, it gives faster access to the cards you tutor up with Mystical and Vampiric (losing a second card in the process, I admit).
The only thing I experienced was that I'd like a second Regrowth at times for the Vampiric Tutor. Maybe that'd be a reason to re-include Timetwister (although I don't have one).

I know that Compulsion sacrifices 7-card hands for speedy search, but that feels good if you are looking for particular cards like the combo. And it improves my topdeck skills - I'm far more likely to draw into something I need.

So, Compulsion is my solution for the problem of "[not] enough search".

For reference, here is my current decklist:

The Rainbow Menace (60 cards)

Blue (20):
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Misdirection
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Braingeyser
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Compulsion
1 Cunning Wish
1 Power Artifact
2 Morphling

Black (6):
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Chainer's Edict
1 The Abyss
1 Mind Twist
1 Yawgmoth's Will

White (3):
1 Balance
1 Dismantling Blow
1 Swords to Plowshares

Green (1):
1 Regrowth

Red (1):
1 Gorilla Shaman

Artifacts (9):
1 Zuran Orb
1 Grim Monolith
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus

Land (20):
4 City of Brass
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
1 Library of Alexandria
2 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

SB:
1 Dwarven Blastminer
1 Aura Fracture
1 Moat
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Sylvan Library

1 Ebony Charm
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Misdirection
1 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Red Elemental Blast
1 Flaming Gambit

If I had a Time Walk, it'd be my 61st card. Other than that I have included my Onslaught changes, consisting of 1 Polluted Delta and the SB Dwarven Blastminer. The fourth Underground Sea could becoma a Dust Bowl, but excess lands usually go into Compulsion or Zuran Orb, and I don't want to lose another blue source.

Dozer

[Elric]

You should try Impulse. It's a great searcher.
I always liked this card and I would play it in every Keeper.

It gives you cardquality and it is nearly a tutor because you get 4 cards into your library.

And believe me you are really happy if you remove 4 mana from the top of your library.

[Big Blue]

Elric is right - Impulse is very good in Keeper and even better in Combo-Keeper. If you have the slot(s) available definitely play it/them (especially since you addressed the issue of having not enough search sometimes).

On a sidenote, I am curious about further tourney results with Trinity-Keeper - has anybody played it in more recent tourneys (my next one is in 2 weeks)?

[Matt The Great]

Sideboarded Blastminer is horrible. Dwarven Miner is strictly superior unless you're going to use the Morph, and you should have something better to side in than a Grey Ogre. The only reason to use the new Miner over the old is maindeck, where you might actually prefer a vanilla 2/2 versus mono-colored decks. After sideboarding that "just in case" element is gone, and you'll never use the Morph because either you're playing it to destroy some land or you should have sided it out.

[Dozer]

Two things: First, Impulse. I know. But I can't find the bloody room. I could free up the Compulsion slot, but what else? To me, Vampiric Tutor and Merchant Scroll are the next candidates to get the shaft, but I don't think I'm gonna do that. And I can't cut Regrowth because it serves as a retriever to complete the Combo and gets backa bloody lot of other things, too.
Since my main complaint was that Sylvan Library doesn't cut it anymore and does not dig deep enough for me, I think Compulsion will work this out.

Second, the Miner. I am pretty content with running it SB. Its Morph is the reason I'm getting away with three Volcanics - I can still play it and turn him over once the first red source arrives. I'm getting some 2/2 beats in, and when the time has come, I'll go mining. I still play it that way even after SB'ing. So far, it has worked. And, hell, where's the difference? Which card kills a Blastminer that wouldn't kill a Dwarven Miner? Fire/Ice kills both, the only difference is that you can Mis-D it after it's being played on a Dwarven but not on a Blastminer.

Dozer

[Elric]

To get room for Impulse I would take out:

Merchant Scroll
(is not so strong as tutor)
Cunning Wish
(is bad for your SB, because you have to build it for the Wish)
1 Morphling
(1 is enough)
Gorilla Shaman
(I never understood why someone plays Gorilla in Keeper)

[Big Blue]

I disagree almost completely with all 4 suggestions:

1. Merchant Scroll is very good (especially if you play F&I) since most games are "won by Ancestral"

2. Cunning Wish is probably in a testing phase, so taking it out is not advisable; moreover, you do NOT have to change ANYTHING in your SB to make Cunning Wish viable, provided you play some generic SB with REBs, StoP, BEB and Disenchant - yes, you can add Teferi´s, Mis-D, Ebony Charm, whatever - but you don´t have to; of course, if you were to play Trinity-Keeper the wish just sucks, but in more standard Keeper it is very good

3. 1 Morphling is NOT enough according to my experience (Sui?); it is also a great defensive card

4. Gorilla Shaman does what it does - kills mana artifact, Cursed Scrolls, random things like Vises or Racks and it is capable of killing Null Rods and WOrbs; it blocks all 2/1s, and occasionally it is your last victory condition; sure, it is kind of metagame call - in Mox-free environments you don´t really "need" it, but for the reasons explained before it is still a decent card

However, you can easily get rid of Compulsion for 1 Impulse and if you are brave enough you can kick out the StoP (but that is maybe a metagame question) for a second. In some metagames Elric´s 4th suggestion is actually ok, so this is an alternative second slot (I can´t imagine a metagame, where both StoP and Mox Monkey are "bad"). If you dare, you could get rid of Regrowth for a third Impulse (but that hurts already). And you can always play with a 61st card (Impulse #3-4) with 28 mana sources and a couple of Impulses.

[Dozer]

I also disagreed with most of Elric's suggestions. However, I wanted to try fitting three Impulses in my Keeper, and after a day's testing I ended up with yet another configuration.
To sum it up: I dropped Compulsion, Gorilla Shaman and Merchant Scroll and one Underground Sea to add three Impulses and a Volcanic Island. Here in my current residence Leipzig (I moved here a week ago), nobody has the P9. Alas, the T1-scene is almost non-existent, so I felt the removal of Gorilla Shaman from the maindeck was justified.

Compared to the list below:
- 1 Compulsion
- 1 Merchant Scroll
- 1 Gorilla Shaman
- 1 Underground Sea

+ 3 Impulse
+ 1 Volcanic Island

The three Impulses really achieve what they are supposed to do: With them, I feel secure to always get what I want. It's really easier to achieve the combo. (Plus they prevent color-screw.)
Following Big Blue's train of thought, I could add another MD card since I'm missing Time Walk (which would be 61st). That would be Merchant Scroll. I think I'm going to add Merchant Scroll back in and forget about Walk for the moment.

----

But there's another thing... No, I couldn't leave it there.
Since I prefer a 5-colour-deck to a 4-color-deck, I found myself unable to cope with the fact that my MD Red had gone to watch from the SB.
Also, there just had to be another way to add to the Raw Power Level of this deck besides adding the combo.

What did I do? I took out Cunning Wish and added Burning Wish. Sounds crazy? Maybe. My reasoning? Here it is:
The only things I ever fetched with Cunning Wish were Mis-D, BEB, StoP, and occasionally REB. I never got to use my neat tech-cards like Ebony Charm and the like. Burning Wish OTOH adds a lot more "Oomph" to the deck, cranking out the power (Duress, Pyroclasm) from the sideboard. His Sourceries can do what the instants did as well, and more. I'm still testing this and have neither reached a final Judgement nor a final SB config, but it looks promising to me.

(Burning Wish, btw, does not change the deck's structure. You can sub the Wishes on a 1-1 basis, just the sideboard has to change a lot. IMO it becomes a metagame choice: A lot of Control + Combo spells Cunning Wish, a lot of aggro calls for Burning Wish and the accompanying sorceries. It's a pity that the SB does not offer space for both.)

And here is the Burning Wish-Sideboard (subject to change):
1 Duress --> It's good, isn't it?
1 Probe --> Spells Card Advantage all over. Also very useful in the midgame with Kicker.
1 Undo --> Needed to look it up? That's ok. It's a debatable choice.
1 Vindicate --> I know, it's basically crap. It's still one of the most powerful sourcs in the game.
1 Fireball --> Must... Include... Burn... Could (should?) become Kaerverk's Torch. Has more style, though (beta).
1 Pyroclasm --> Read the Control Player's Bible, stupid!

4 Red Elemental Blast
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Dwarven Blastminer
1 Aura Fracture
1 Moat
1 Circle of Protection: Red

----

What this has got to do with the combo, you might ask? Easy: It buys time. The sourceries are so powerful that the single Burning Wish can buy me a couple of turns against aggro (Pyroclasm, Undo), keep up parity or card advantage for me against control (Duress, Probe), or win the game itself (Fireball). Vindicate is practically the filler, there for any general purposes. I expect good synergy overall, but as I said - I'm still testing.

Dozer

P.S.: Yes, I know that a lot of people tested Burning Wish as it came out. I'm doing it nonetheless, because I think it's going to work in my deck. Sorry for going a little Off Topic, btw.

[Big Blue]

As much as I agree with your moving to Leipzig (it is a nice city) I think Burning Wish is a mistake, irrespective of the metagame. But let us know what BW does for you...
"Just" being able to fetch a REB,BEB,StoP or Disenchant at Instant speed with a blue(!) card is not too bad, IMHO...

But first things first: Yes, without opposing P9-decks Gorilla Shaman can go for an Impulse. But cutting Merchant Scroll for Impulse is not good, IMO.

Also, I think cutting an Underground Sea is bad - Keeper is always playing against two decks (the opposing deck and itself) and often loses to the latter due to colour-screw - every change which increases the likelihood of this seems bad.

If you do not play Moat you can cut a Tundra for the 4th Vulcanic - it seems safer to lose access to White than access to Black. If your SB contains many white cards you could consider Smmenen's tech of SBing a Tundra.

Or you simply keep the 3 Vulcanics (if there is not much Control/Combo 3 are sufficient).

Or you finally convert to Trinity...

[Elric]

Okay, you both disagree with my suggestions so I want to explain them a bit more detailed.

1) Merchant Scroll:
Normally you search for Ancestrall or a counter.

Ancetrall then gets countered by your opponent and you have nothing. Against noncounter it is better but it is only a 2 card advantage and I think you overrate it.
Ancestrall is really good but most games are NOT won by Ancestrall.
Impulse won't get countered and so get you cardquality. You know how it works.

A counter gives you advantage but doesn't fix your mana especially the colored.
In Keeper you play enough counters that you should get one with the Impulse if you need it.


2)Cunning Wish:
I agree with you concerning the Wish.

At the moment I play only Trinity when I play Keeper and I don't know a reason why not to play a 1 card combo against creature-decks
and so getting the possibility to advance the deck against control and combo decks.

3)Morphling:
I understand you that you want to play 2 Morphlings its a very good creature(best ever). The reason why I play only 1 is that the best thing I normally do with it is paying a FoW.
Out of 10 games I win, there is normally only 1 that I win with Morphling and I never had the feeling that I needed a 2nd.

4)Gorilla Shaman:
I never wanted a Shaman during a game. There were often situations it would have been usefull. But never a situaton I needed it. I always got the DisBlow when I needed it or I got no tutor or searcher but in that cases the Gorilla would have changed only the  percentage for a topdeck.
And on the other hand I had only very few matches where a Gorilla on the other side of the table sucked.

I remember the last Dülmen torney. I had a match where my opponent killed 4 moxen and solring but only at the time I allowed it to him, when I needed the mana. Few turns later he removed all of them because I played Will for a second Balance and other cards. He also had 2 or 3 Wastelands but he still lost that game.

Thats all for my choices at the moment.

Concerning Burning Wish you have forgotten a very essential card you can Wish YAWGMOTH'S WILL.
You can first play it to get boardcontrol and later Wish it for the win.

[Big Blue]

ok, my statement that games are won by Ancestral was probably somewhat polemic, but in matches versus control it is essentially true - granted, you do not actually kill with Ancestral (unless the game is very odd!), but the card advantage usually does the trick in such matchups; against aggro it might not be enough, because zero life cannot be compensated by seven cards

[Merchant Scroll]

I disagree on your second choice: counters - against aggro, my second choice (or even my first one) is Mystical (to get Balance or YawgWin or Timetwister or Demonic or Timewalk or...)

my third pick is often FoF (provided I have enough mana), otherwise a counter

my fourth pick is a counter or FoF or Stroke (the kill card, if you combo!)

my fifth pick is Stroke or counter

and if I have no other choice I could get Impulse as 6th pick (although the situations were Scrolling for Impulse is your best play are admittedly very rare)

IMO the most severe disadvantage of Scroll is the loss of tempo; however, with all the Moxen and the (almost) complete lack of 1-2 drops it is often an excellent turn 1 play (later on the loss of tempo is less relevant); however, the possibility of fetching Mystical is (at least) a fair compensation

[Morphling]

it is kind of funny that for the same reason that you seem to play only one I do play two: I also discard it quite often to FoW/Mis-D - but then I am VERY happy that there is a second one in my deck for blocking/stalling/killing and that I do not have to rely solely on the combo

I win pre-SB at least 2/3 of the games with "honest Morphling beatdown" - but then again, it is clear that with twice as many Morphlings (and oo many more after the first one "died" to FoW) I kill more often with it than you do...

oh, yes, and against aggro with graveyard hate it can be a good strategy to switch from combo-mode into Oath-for-Morphling-mode (that is the fourth option of Trinity, a hybrid of control and cotrolish-combo) - with only 1 Morphling this strategy is seriously challenged and only available if you are very brave and/or desperate

so as much as I would like to be convinced (since this would open one precious slot for me) I am still very skeptical towards the 1-Morphling approach.

[Gorilla Shaman]

it is not a must - but in powered environments it is VERY good; admittedly, I have also seen games which were even lost due to Mox Monkey (I mean, the caster of Mox Monkey lost, because he could not Balance away the ensuing Morphling on the other side) - but I have witnessed more often the devastating power of the Mox-eating ape, so quoting singular events is not neccessarily representative; especially in conjunction with Dwarven Miner the Monkey shines (provided you have enough Vulcanics in the deck - in Trinity Keeper I would not include them); being capable of eating Cursed Scrolls, Racks, WOrbs(!) and Null Rods(!!) is also not too bad

[Burning Wish]

Concerning Wishing fo YawgWin: I think the consensus on this issue was more or less that after the first YawgWin 9 times out of 10 you have won anyway, so although you are right this is not a mayor point in favour of this Wish

[Elric]

We both pointed out our arguments so I will leave it as it is and
go on to the Burning Wish.

I think you win 9 times out of 10 with YWin because you hold it back untill you get enough searcher,
but with the Wish there is no need to hold it back.
You can just play it for Walk or Ancestrall and perhaps 1 land or stuff like that, and improve your boardposition.
I often had the situation that I needed a Balance and had to play Will and got problems afterwards playing the combo.
Most times you have to use your tutors twice to get enough mana and the combo.
The Wish is really good with Holistic Wisdom.
Also I don't remember how often I pitched Geyser or Twister for FoW/MisD, that are really good targets for Wish.

[Big Blue]

My problems with Burning Wish are

1. Its colour (in Trinity Keeper I have no Vulcanics and as a non-blue card it competes with all other non-blue cards for precious slots in the deck)
2. Its speed
3. The cards in my SB (just being able to fetch YawgWin is too situational)

Maybe we should clarify about wich deck we are talking - I am talking about Trinity Keeper, and there are no Vulcanics and no notable Sorcery-Silver-Bullets in the SB (I mean, ok, CotH and Duress are nice, but not exactly a "Silver-Bullet")

In ordinary Keeper, however, it could have a place, but you need to change your SB radically (as opposed to Cunning Wish), which is not neccessarily good.

But my main point is that, while occasionally being good, it does not seem to be better than any of the 61 cards I am playing currently in Keeper.

The synergy with Holistic Wisdom is admittedly good - but you can achieve this also with a MD Duress instead (it does not really matter WHICH Sorcery card you discard and Duress has at least some early game use).

But every Keeper deck has place for at least 1 personal card, so you can safely keep it

[CrazyCarl]

Quote Also I don't remember how often I pitched Geyser or Twister for FoW/MisD, that are really good targets for Wish.

Braingeyser and Timetwister are sorceries and Force of Will and Misdirection are instants.  You can't pitch Geysers and Twisters for counters.

[Elric]

Concerning the Wisdom, I talked about Wishing for cards that are removed and not using the Wisdom with discarding Wish.

And concerning FoW/MisD I talked about paying the alternat casting cost.

You are right there should be room for 1 personal card.
But at the moment I don't want to play any Wishes I just wanted to explain my thoughts concerning Buning Wish.

My personal card for the next testing phase will be Future Sight.

[Big Blue]

ok, sorry for my misunderstanding - I thought about the "usual" pitch-sorcery-for-TimeWalk-routine, but granted, you CAN get removed cards as well

I also want to give Future Sight a try - maybe THIS card can finally convince me to remove my second Morphling, but I am not sure; apart from being very broken with Sylvan and SoLoMoxen (and Fastbond) it is at least a blue card, so...

[Dozer]

I'll be attending a home-tournament this weekend (I hope to, at least), and I'll resolve my personal "Which-Wish-Issue" there once and for all. I'll also post an experience-report with the Combo in a Standard Keeper, so you'll see that you don't have to master the difficulty of Trinity to get the full use of the combo...

As an update, I have chosen to stick Fire/Ice back into my Keeper and currently play two Impulse and one Merchant Scroll. Without F/I, I'd have settled for three Impulse, but a second removal-tutor is always nice to have. (Plus, it's not like M. Scroll was a bad card...)

Dozer

[Big Blue]

I posted a tourney report with Combo Keeper (Trinity version) in the tourney-forum.

My SB was
4 Duress
2 Negator
1 CotH
6 KrOath
1 Compost
1 Aura Fracture

I never needed Aura Fracture, but probably it should stay as insurance. I was also happy with the 2 Negators/1 CotH split. And Compost was good (there were about 25% mono-B decks).

I never really missed Red, although it surely would have helped in the mirror matches. But Duress is good enough as substitute (and mono-U somehow vanished from our metagame, even without the presence of TnT).

[Dozer]

I didn't get around to write a long version, but the short essences of the tournament were these:
1) Eight players: 2 Suicide, 1 Sligh, 1 R/G Zoo, 1 Mono-U, 2 Keeper, 1 Bazaar. All players played against each other.
2) I used the combo twice: One game against Sligh, one game in the mirror.
3) I'm sold on Cunning Wish now due to the higher number of tricks it can perform.
4) I placed second, tying with Bazaar and losing to R/G Zoo.

All three U-based control-decks ran the combo, and it was most definitely a threat that all opponents feared, in case of the Sligh and R/G players going so far as to destroy Grim Monoliths on sight with way better targets (ZOrb, Powder Keg) available.
It has been stated before: Keeper with the Combo plays like it does without, but has the possibily to just win instantly. Although I "only" used it twice in 21 games (and could have a third time, where I had the combo in hand and was beating down with a Morphling), I consider it even more important than before. It's the ultimate safety valve and inspires fear in the heart of your opponents while comforting you in the knowledge that you "just have to draw Power Artifact and he's dead". Feels good.

Dozer

P.S.: Did you ever drop Power Artifact on Masticore? It's that much fun in Multiplayer...