Mono Blue SB Strategy

[Smmenen]

Very shortly, I'm thinking of revising the main post in this thread small changes I have made to my deck (Including adding FoF (SHUT UP PARROT).  

The new SB I am considering is this:

4 Control Magic
1 Back to Basics
1 Powder Keg
1 Black Vise
1 Thwart
2 Misdirection
3 Psionic Blast
2 Blue Elemental Blast

This is much tighter than what I posted earlier and seems INCREDIBLY powerful.  The real motivator here is this: ALOT of decks play with Negator: G/B, Suey, Void, SB card, Mask, etc.  It's super efficient.  I want to punish them.  

The propsed changes would be:
Against Suicide Black
- 4 Ophdian
- 3 B2B
- 3 Other Cards (What?)

+ 3 Psionic Blast
+ 4 Control Magic
+ 2 MIsdirection
+ 1 Powder Keg

There are other SB changes.  I removed the Extract becuase I think the Oath matchup is too marginalized to even worry about.  I removed the Impulse, becuase it was pointless, and I removed an extra Thwart becuase I'm already doing good in the mirror.  

Wow - I still can't beleive how powerful this SB is.  It's an absolute wrecking ball (and so much fun).  If this is as good as I think it is, I will revise the original post.  Thoughts?

Stephen Menendian

[specialk]

I know it wasn't directed at me but I put thhief in my board to board aganist control once they have no morphlings they lose.  Thiefs are still good aganist combo because blue has the disruption to slow them down and once i steat pieces they should soon concede


You might want to side basic counterspells out of your deck as the lead to no real advantage when boarding aganist sui

[Smmenen]

Special K: I assume then by your silence, we've resolved the B2B issue.

Your incorrect when you say that counterspell gives me no real advantage agianst Suicide Black.  Strictly speaking, counterspells don't really give "advantage" with the exception of Mis-direction.  So I will assume what you mean by "advantage" is some special benefit or use in the matchup.  While it may be that counterspell is the weakest - it is also pretty strong - using it to protect a Psi Blast from a duress is pretty good.  

Theif is awful.  There are always better cards to side in.  Theifs are also too slow against combo and to bad against mono blue mirror.

In the mirror draining a Theif is PRECISELY what the opponent wants in order to play Phid with DOUBLE counter back up on turn three.  

Against Combo if you've played a Thief - you've probably just lost becuase you've tapped out and now they go off.  Better cards against Combo include: counterspell, Mana Drain, FoW, Misdirection, Mana Leak, Prohibit, Miscalculation, Blue Elemental Blast (if the deck is Dragon), Powder Keg and many, many more.  

Stephen Menendian

[Cartman316 _420]

you run only 22 mana sources?

~cartman

[Rico Suave]

Um, where'd the Black Vise come from?  Wouldn't it be really easy for your opponent to play around it, considering you only have Phid and Morphling for other damage?

Also, what do you SB against Enchantress?

[Crawley]

Quote
Versus Sligh:
In:
2 Misdirection
1 Powder Keg
2 Blue Elemental Blast

Out:
3 Back to Basics:
1 Capsize
1 Mana Leak


Misdirection, Kegs, and Phid are the three best cards against this deck.  Prohibit is better than Leaks, especially after sbing and so BEB is better than both, but since we remove one, it will be Leak.

Have you thought about/tried siding out a force of will insted of a mana leak for the BEB? It would be easier on your hand (and life).

[j_orlove]

Quote Um, where'd the Black Vise come from?  Wouldn't it be really easy for your opponent to play around it, considering you only have Phid and Morphling for other damage?

Not if the other deck has a bunch of counters and impulses, and a few cards it doesn't want to cast until they think they can win the counterwar. He doesn't side it in vs just anything--it's mostly for the mirror.

[Smmenen]

Crawley,

You might be right.  Anyone else have a thought on this?  The only counter argumement I can think of is that a FOW can be used to double counter back up a third or fourth turn phid.  



As for Enchantress:
The important SB card against Enchantress is going to be B2B and the other card that will be of use will probably be powder keg.  Misdirections are near worthless as they only get Mind Twist and An

Even if they have Choke and I have a B2B on the table, experiences has shown that I tend to win becuase of my moxen, Library, Mana Drains, which all facilitate me getting Capsize for the win.  Dan (Cooberp) played at Origins in the mirror match in day 2? and  and I beat the deck that he played.  City of Solitude is the card that must never resolve and from that Replenish.  However, the one thing about Enchantress is that the new Onslaught changes might make it stronger and weaken Powder Keg whose major targets include Tokens, Enchantress herself, and artifact mana.  

So, in Summary:
In:
1 Powder Keg
1 Back to Basics

Out:
2 Misdirections


One other issue is that of TNT, how good are Psi Blasts v TnT?  Are they a little better, alot better, or worse than Kegs 3 and 4?  Does anyone have an opinion?


Stephen Menendian\n\n

[Often Lost]

Has anyone ever tested Hukyl's Recall. Im testing it as a wish target and it ha been doing me well. Weather it be returning a slipped through Mask and Naught, or a Juggy horred, it has served me well. It helps the TnT match a slight bit, stalling another turn.

Smmenen, Black Vise in the SB?!?! I would like to hear your experiences with this card.

[Smmenen]

Black Vise in the mirror

To get a feel for how Black Vise works in the mirror, next time you play, only allow your opponent to draw 4 cards.  Then if they do, make them discard those spells.  If you think that is good, well black vise is better.  

In the mono blue mirror, the person under the vise will literally counter their own moxen to get under it.  

Not recommended against decks with four morphlings though.

Stephen Menendian

[Smmenen]

Recent Changes in the Type One meta have boded poorly for this archetype.  Fortunately for you blue heads out there - I have some technology that is abosolutely spectacular.  

There are still very compelling reasons to play mono blue if Viriginia States is an indicator (lots of keeper).  The fundamental issues are whether mono blue is able to handle TnT, Mask, Grow, and whether recent changes in Keeper make it better for the Keeper deck.  

But more than that - the only reason I would play mono blue is if it does better than any other deck (which it seems difficult to maintain as it is).  

After giving this more than a little bit of thought, and after some painful spasms - I present the new mono blue SB and offer up the suggestion that mono blue must now play with 4 Wastelands and a Strip Mine in the mainboard.  

Ta Da:

3 Energy Flux
3 Psionic Blast
4 Control Magic
2 Back to Basics
2 Misdirections
1 Powder Keg

I have done my testing and I have to say this: Energy Flux is an absolute house.  Turn one or two agaisnt TnT (if it can be protected) means WIN.  It shuts down Welders while destorying their own board.  It is flexible enough that it is useulf against Academy, Smokestack decks, AND perhaps Mask.  

Furthermore, with Back to Basics * 4, TnT has alot of trouble with Energy Flux.  I advocate siding in basically the whole SB except for the Misdirections.  You wil want to side out the Ophidians, Counterspells, Misdirections, and a few other cards.  When you are drawing and playing Contol Magic, Back to Basics, Energy Flux, Psionic Blast, and Powder Keg left and right there is nothing for TnT to do but cry.

It is possible that this is overkill - but really, there can be no such thing in this situation.  If anything could stay in the board, the Psi Blast and last keg are the least pressing concern.

Also, The four control magic, 3 psionic Blast stuff is EXTREMELy strong versus Suicide Black and very good versus Mask.  An early Energy Flux against Mask can also mean the win.  

I'll talk more about this soon - in which I will have to completely revamp the front post.

Stephen Menendian\n\n

[dicemanX]

In light of your new SB tech, I want to restate the question that was posed to you earlier - how are you pulling this off with only 16 lands? Having only 21 permanent mana sources (plus the one Lotus) seems a bit frightening. And now that you plan to wreck 5 of those sources with the Flux, can you really hope to reach 3-4 mana to have a shot at casting Blasts and Control Magic? I know that you say you tested this idea, but it seems to fly in the face of what are commonly accepted mana to spell ratios for such a mana hungry deck.

I ask because I'm looking for a serious mono-U deck, and I agree with most of the things you have said in this thread (the need for B2B, running Ophidians + full power etc). However, after proxying your deck, I'm finding that I get mana shorted quite often unless I can get Ophidian out quickly enough and have it actually draw cards for me.

[Smmenen]

Good questions:

First of all, the assumption with Energy Flux is that it will hurt my opponent much more than me.  But mostly:

Second of all, the maindeck has been completely revamped:

5 Moxen
1 Lotus
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 LOA
14 Island

4 Phid
2 Morph
3 Keg
2 Back to Basics

4 Impulse
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall

4 Mana Drain
4 FOW
2 Misdirection
4 Mana Leak
1 Prohibit
2 Counterspell

SB:
2 Back to Basics
4 Control Magic
3 Energy Flux
1 Powder Keg
3 Psionic Blast
2 Misdirections

In order to accomodate the new maindeck I have tentatively cut two counterspells, 1 Capsize, and an island and moved a Back to Basics into the SB.  

So far this has worked really well.  The one concern I had was the number of blue sources: which reflects a preference of the single prohibit over a third counterspell.  

The answer became obvious in testing: when you waste and strip, it buys you time to draw into more, which it does.  

In the past I had only tested with 2, 3, and 4 copies of Waste/Strip.  Never 5 in this deck.  And the reason I kept rejecting it was that Back to Basics seemed to perform the same function, was pitchable and required less maindeck space, and becuase without tutors, the drawing of the Wastes/Strip is somewhat erratic.  

But with the maximum allowable amount, it becomes more predictable and reliable.  

The other big motivator is the recent shift in the metagame: the use of fetchlands, TnT, and Grow - all make Wasteland look better to me (although there is some debate about the fetchlands) - while B2B is slightly less good with them.  

The origional 22 mana base design was built to get to four mana by turn three (three Islands and a Mox) and then the hope was to not draw mana then again for a while until the phid was going.  

I realize that this will put me in a slightly weaker position against some decks - but I think overall it will bolster this deck for the metagame.  

Further testing might create more changes - but not in terms of the mana base.  Any changes will reflect a desire to use Capsize or different counterspell configurations.

Stephen Menendian

[kirdape3]

Couple of questions for you.

1) Is 15 hard blue sources enough?  While you only really need Mox + Island for first turn counterpower, I can see you having mana issues later on in the game against a control opponent.

2) I know you face Paul's Mask deck a lot, but are Control Magics fast enough to deal with that?  Psionic Blasts won't hit a Dreadnought, either.  I'm just wondering if there's another way to side against that monster.

3) 3 Kegs maindeck?  In your current configuration with only 2 Mis-Ds, Sligh should actually be pretty proficient at destroying your Phids with burn (fine, they'll take 3 from you nailing a Pup then they'll cut you up with the next one).  I'd think it'd either be 3 Kegs/3 Mis-Ds or 4 Kegs/2-Mis-Ds.

[Smmenen]

Quote (kirdape3 @ Nov. 09 2002,17:38)Couple of questions for you.

1) Is 15 hard blue sources enough?  While you only really need Mox + Island for first turn counterpower, I can see you having mana issues later on in the game against a control opponent.

2) I know you face Paul's Mask deck a lot, but are Control Magics fast enough to deal with that?  Psionic Blasts won't hit a Dreadnought, either.  I'm just wondering if there's another way to side against that monster.

3) 3 Kegs maindeck?  In your current configuration with only 2 Mis-Ds, Sligh should actually be pretty proficient at destroying your Phids with burn (fine, they'll take 3 from you nailing a Pup then they'll cut you up with the next one).  I'd think it'd either be 3 Kegs/3 Mis-Ds or 4 Kegs/2-Mis-Ds.

1) I think this is only going to be a problem against other mono blue decks.  Against Oath, Grow, Keeper, and OSE the Wastes will more than compensate.  Plus it is only one blue different than before.   Don't forget, I have four impulse as well.  

2) Yes, with one caveat: sometimes nothing is fast enough to beat mask and Yes: add the fourth keg as well.   The untested SB option is to use Energy Flux - in theory a first or second turn Energy Flux should be quite strong.  I have found that with four impulses, four control magics, 4 kegs, and 3 psionic blasts, that tends to be a significant factor in my favor.  The Mask deck, when faced with a difficult opening hand, is likely to go dark ritual, Negator rather than make a two turn plan to get a Naught into play when it believes there to be more countering risk in the second plan.  This is how Psinoic Blast comes in handy.  In the TOC5 I beat CF game two to win the match with just Four Kegs and Four Control magics becuase I had enough experience against Mask to recognize which creature was the Naught despite his attempts to disguise the casting cost by paying three.  

3)  I have been running three kegs with one Capsize for a very long time now.  The only difference is that there is no capsize.  It is enough - I usually only play the phid with two counters to back it up.  Such as when I have four mana in play, and have drained for one, or have 5 mana in play - and after SBing I move into a fourth keg.  And if they are using bolts on the phids, that's less damage to my face.  As a general matter running four kegs tends to have poor synergy - there is a tendancy to want to kill themselves.  3 is the magical number for the maindeck.  


From the games I recall I played at the GP Cleveland agaisnt both Zoo and Sligh.  Round two against sligh involved everything going as planned.  Game one was close with me getting down to about 6-7 life before stablizing with Phids - becuase of Barbarian Rings I ended up at 2 life when I won game one.  Game two wasn't very close.  I think sligh players have a tendancy to oversideboard in pyros and REBs - the problem with that is that I tend to take alot less damage - and they don't stop Kegs.   Round two against zoo was very interesting.  Blurred Mongeese do not like Ophidians - and I managed to counter the Boas.  The problem with the geese is that I can't Misdirect back to them.  

 Misdirection isn't always useful because unless I have a phid on the table, they aren't going to want to use their burn.  In essence, Phids, Morphling, Kegs, and Misdirections present very difficult problems for sligh players.

From a very close reading of your question, you seem to imply that as the number of misdirections increase, the likelihood of successfully protecting the phids go up.  That is simply a fallacy - if you are using Misdirections to protect the phid, it is likley that you are pitching something to do so - in many cases (but obviously not all) having a misdirection is just as good as having a counterspell.  So the important question than becomes to strike a balance - to find the number of Misdirections which have the best synergy with the counterspells and so forth and that maximizes the ability to protect the phid.\n\n