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Author Topic: Sunday Type I@ Neutral Ground Report  (Read 3330 times)
Legend
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« on: March 19, 2003, 11:08:01 am »

A few days ago I went to the weekly Sunday T1 at Neutral Ground with my usual Ankh Sligh build, except for one major change: I was running the 8 Blast plan for the first time. I knew that there was going to be some Fish, combo, and maybe even Groatog, and I felt that the Blast plan would allow me to battle these decks, while still offering me a strong option against Keeper.

To fit in the Blasts, I cut 3 Rack and Ruin, 4 Scald, and 1 Pyrokinesis. There had been no TNT at all recently, so the Racks were no great loss in this environment. Scald is amazing against Keeper, but not some of the other blue-based decks that I mentioned, so I had to cut it, and as I indicated, I felt that the Blasts would step in nicely for the Scalds in the Keeper matchup. If a COP Red hit, I would really miss Scald, but overall, I felt that the Blasts could still cause a lot of problems for Keeper and allow me to protect a key spell such as Cursed Scroll or POP, and just go all the way with one of them. Finally, losing one Nesis wasn't that big of a deal, since I still had 4 Fanatics and 3 Nesis to deal with aggro. Pretty much what I found to be the case is that the Neutral Ground metagame IS changing more than I though it might, with a rather large variety of new decks showing up. Many reliable Keeper players are either inactive or playing different decks. There are still a few reliable Keeper players, but not as many. The point is, though, that greater trends in Type I must be accounted for, because they are turning up at Neutral Ground. Hence the 8 Blast plan when I feel it is necessary, and it was definitely called for on Sunday.

So here is the list:

LAS

4 Jackal Pup
4 Goblin Cadets
4 Gorilla Shaman

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Incinerate
4 Price of Progress
1 Fork

4 Ankh of Mishra
4 Cursed Scroll
1 Black Vise

1 Mox Ruby
16 Mountain
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

4 Pyroblast
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Mogg Fanatic
3 Pyrokinesis


Now, here is a general breakdown of the decks that were played:

17 players
----------

2 Fish
2 Keeper
3-4 Sligh variants
3-4 Suicide variants
1 Academy
1 Rector Trix
1 Mono B Worldgorger
1 Groatog
1 Secret Force
1 Elves

Actually an interesting metagame, with some friendly matchups for me, but not without some rather treacherous ones. On to the matches...




ROUND 1: JJ Linares: SECRET FORCE

OK, I'm not going to lie to you. I was not expecting to see a Secret Force deck in Type I. Obviously, Secret Force is not a Type I deck by any means, but if he could get going , he had some annoying cards for me such as Spike Feeder. Of course, the big punch in his deck is Verdant Force. But he didn't come close to getting going. I didn't even know what he was playing until after the match, because he got mana-screwed both games. I thought he was just playing a really bad Stompy deck until he told me it was Secret Force. Game 1 he mulligans down to five, sees only one land the entire game, and I just overrun him with 2/1's. All I saw was a Lyrist, which got burned away. Game 2 he mulligans down to 6, and again all I see is another Lyrist and a couple of Elves, which all get burned as some more 2/1's and Fanatics go through. I'd say this match was over in roughly five minutes.

1-0, 2-0


ROUND 2: Raymond Lambert: KEEPER

I've played more sanctioned matches against Raymond than just about anyone, and I've had his number almost without fail. This time would be no exception to that, as he was playing Keeper, my best matchup. Game 1, I keep a marginal hand of no creatures or Ankhs, basically just a Scroll and some burn, along with a Wasteland. However, I decide to hold the Wasteland back until I see an opportune moment to use it. This hand, while slow, is perfectly capable of beating Keeper in Game 1, as they have no COP: Red yet, and they will often just succumb to the avalanche of burn spells, especially POP. My first two turns are just Mountain, Scroll, Mountain go. His first two turns are just Tundra, Sea. Then I draw Black Vise. Nice. I Wasteland his Sea, rendering him unable to Drain, and the Vise hits. From this point on, I refuse to cast any more spells. Meanwhile, my hand fills up with POPs, making it easy for me to Scroll him every turn and hasten the outcome. Ray's hand must have been Mana Drains and some more expensive items, because he never casts another spell and ends up losing to the Vise.

For Game 2, I sided out 4 Chain Lightnings and 4 Incinerates for the 8 Blasts. This proved to be a good move, as I pretty much countered anything that got in my way this game. I forced through an early Scroll by countering his Force of Will, and then I Blasted his Mystical Tutor, which I assume would have been for Shattering Pulse. Also, a couple of Ankhs were causing major problems for Ray, and by this point, he was pretty much out of answers. The big hit came from an 8 point POP, which I believe I forced through with yet another Blast, although I don't quite remember if he had any counters left to resist the POP by that time. After the POP went through, the Scroll finished things off, with the Ankhs holding him down. I still like Scald a lot against Keeper, but I must say that the Blasts worked out nicely, especially since Keeper players generally side out Mind Twist against Sligh.

2-0, 4-0


ROUND 3: Scott McCord: RECTOR TRIX

This is obviously a very unpleasant matchup for me, although I felt somewhat prepared with the Blasts in place. The problem is that he can just strip them away with Duresses and Cabal Therapies. My other hope is to take advantage of this deck's fragile manabase and race with Ankhs and creatures before the combo can be set up. I felt I had a chance here, not a great one, but a chance. Game 1, he goes first and mulligans. A good start. Or so it seems. He mulligans into Black Lotus + Rector on the first turn, and it all falls apart from there, as he gets a Phyrexian Tower and sacs the Rector to put Bargain into play.

Game 2, I've sided in the Blasts in the same way I did against Ray's Keeper. I Waste two of Scott's early lands to slow him down. However, he Enlightened Tutors for a COP: Red. This does not slow me down too much, though, as I get two Scrolls into play and begin Scrolling him every turn, naming Red Elemental Blast, of which there are three in my hand. I get him fairly low before he Duresses me, seeing 3 Red Elemental Blasts and a Pyroblast. He takes the Pyroblast, reasoning that this will make his Cabal Therapy (if he can find one) more devastating. This was, without a doubt, the correct decision on his part. But it backfires, because he didn't (and couldn't have) taken into account the lucky draw I was going to get a couple of turns later, and the fact that I would now be able to Scroll him with 100% success rate. So after a couple of more turns of Scrolling naming REB, I get him down to 9. Finally, Scott draws his Mystical Tutor, and goes for Cabal Therapy. This is a problem, because those REB's are the only thing between survival and getting comboed. There is one chance for me though - Scott only has one source of black mana in play - an Underground Sea. If I can just draw a Strip Mine....of course, my next draw IS a Strip Mine, allowing me to get rid of the Sea. This wins the game for me, as Scott draws the Therapy next turn, then follows it up by failing to draw any more black mana for the remaining few turns it takes me to win with the Scrolls.

Game 3 doesn't go my way. Going second, I seem to have a great hand of Wasteland + Mox Ruby + two Ankhs. However, Scott Duresses me right away and takes the Ruby, leaving me with only the Wasteland for mana. I do topdeck a Mountain, but I don't draw another land for quite some time thereafter, and the Duress ends up crippling my development to a great extent. I am then slowed considerably more by a COP: Red. Finally, I draw some more land and a couple of Pyroblasts, but have not inflicted much damage, and when Scott Therapies naming Red Elemental Blast (misses, but then sacs Rector, naming Pyroblast) the game is over for me, as he goes nuts with both Yawgmoth's Bargain and Will. A very hard-fought and well-played match, but in the end the combo deck does what it is supposed to do.

2-1, 5-2


ROUND 4: Andrew Bove: MONO B WORLDGORGER DRAGON

Well, my reward for having the best breakers of the 2-1's is to be paired against a 2-0-1 playing probably the last deck I want to see needing a win to salvage a 3-1. Andrew is a nice guy who I have played once before, and he appears to have the upper hand now in a big way. But here is where things really work out nicely for me, just when I needed a break or two. I get a few things to go my way in a horrible matchup, and I capitalize on some good fortune (and Andrew's misfortune). Also, despite Andrew's obvious upper hand in this matchup, I do have one huge game breaker: Ankh of Mishra. Since Andrew is not playing Necromancy, the Ankh will shut off the combo - if I can just get it into play by avoiding Duress for the first couple of turns. This would reduce his win condition to merely reanimated Phantom Nishoba (which he has in the sideboard), removing the combo as a consideration. My plan is to mulligan aggressively for an Ankh.

Game 1, there is just no two ways about it: Andrew gets totally mana-screwed. Hey, I need this to happen at least once to give me a legitimate chance. I lose the coin flip, and he plays Strip Mine, Cursed Scroll, Mana Crypt to open. I play Gorilla Shaman. Andrew then Scrolls naming Animate Dead, killing the Shaman. I am pretty sure that his entire hand was Animate Deads, or pretty close to that, because even when Andrew drew a Swamp after a couple of turns, he still couldn't do anything. So the Shaman dies, and I too am mana-screwed, but I do get an Ankh into play at some point, so I am feeling pretty comfortable. Furthermore, the Mana Crypt soon turns into a disaster for Andrew, as it inflicts 9 points of damage on him over the course of the game, which combined with some burn is enough to win it for me.

For Game 2, I side out 3 Price of Progress for 3 Pyrokinesis. Now, it is a longshot, but this is a good emergency backup plan if I can't get an Ankh into play. If I can just catch Andrew napping, I would have a chance to Bolt or Incinerate + Pyrokinesis a Dragon, making Andrew lose all his permanents. Of course, this is a total, total stab in the dark, and would probably never happen, but what do I have to lose? After all, POP is a dead card anyway. Might as well give myself that backup plan. Going second, I look at a rather marginal opening hand. However, the main consideration is that it has no Ankh, so I mulligan. The next hand is much more satisfactory, as it does have an Ankh. The only problem is that it has only one land. I have to keep it though. So Andrew opens with Strip Mine, Scroll again. I draw a Mountain off the top, and I play the first one, hoping that it doesn't get stripped. It doesn't, because Andrew was a little mana-light himself and apparently needed the Strip Mine for mana. I also need Andrew to not have Duress, which he doesn't. He does draw a Swamp, but instead of Duress, his play is Dark Ritual + Buried Alive for 2 Gorgers and 1 Ambassador Laquatus.

I then draw another Mountain, so now my mana situation is definitely alright with two consecutive draws of land. I am pleased to be able to play the Ankh, and now things are looking really good for me. I play out a Gorilla Shaman and a couple of Jackal Pups, and begin attacking. Andrew draws a Duress, and takes a Pyrokinesis. But he is in trouble because he can't go off, and time is running out quickly for him. I attack for five with my guys. Andrew draws a Powder Keg and plays it. I attack again. Andrew is at 10 life, with 2 cards in his hand. He sets the Keg at 1 and uses Scroll, targeting a Pup. He calls "Animate Dead." Well, it is a 50/50 shot from a pure numbers standpoint, but if you are good at reading eyes and other tells (which I am), the odds are considerably better than that. After looking him in the eye, I become fairly convinced of which card is the Animate Dead, and sure enough, I choose correctly and pick the other card, Phantom Nishoba. It was at this point that I learned of Andrew's extreme misfortune. The Nishoba had been in his opening hand, hence, when he had cast Buried Alive earlier, he had not been able to get this devastating anti-Sligh sideboard card. Had the Nishoba not been in his opening hand, he most likely would have won this game. As things stood, though, he had no way to get the Nishoba into his graveyard, and no way to get around the Ankh short of Kegging for two.

Now, this is where the Scroll situation comes in. Since Andrew's attempt to Scroll one of the Pups missed, I could now attack him for 5 once again during my next turn. Andrew did have the Keg out, set on one, but if he chose to sweep away my creatures, he would never be able to get rid of the Ankh of Mishra in time, as I would just draw more burn spells and kill him before he could draw another Keg. So Andrew would have no choice but to let the attack through on the next turn. So at the end of the turn, I Incinerate him, reducing him to 7. The attack brings Andrew down to 2, and I have the Chain Lightning to finish things. Certainly an unfortunate turn of events for Andrew, because if the Scroll had hit the Pup, my EOT Incinerate plus attack would have only reduced Andrew to 4 life, out of Chain Lightning range, and he would have been able to untap, keg away the Ankh, and go off. Instead, I end up winning this game by the slimmest of margins.

So I end up 3-1 for the day, in 3rd place. This continues a string of solid performances for me with Ankh Sligh since I returned to Type I in December. In four tournaments at Neutral Ground with this deck, my records are 3-1, 4-0, 3-1, 3-1, for a total of 13-3. What next, then?

In the coming weeks, I'd like to get my rating up to the 1900 plateau, and I'm getting really close to that goal. But at the level I am at right now, 3-1's will generally only give me a few points. They updated the ratings/rankings today, and for going 3-1, I only get 3 points, going from 1858 to 1861! Two weeks ago, I only got 4 points for a similar performance. That's rough going. Clearly, I'm going to need a couple more 4-0's somewhere along the line to finish the job, and anything less than 3-1 is going to be unacceptable. It's going to be a tough task with no margin for error.

I'm really pleased with the way the deck is running, though, and I'm going to keep with it, as it continues to serve me well everytime out. The only question will be whether or not the Blast plan becomes a fixture. I'll have to see how the Neutral Ground metagame develops in upcoming weeks. OK, that's all for now.\n\n

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walking dude
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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2003, 11:43:54 am »

Great report with good commentary on the blast plan in the SB. Also good advice on siding, v gorger and playing for the long shot rather than just accepting dead cards (or mediocre cards like the fanatics)

Although your list of what was played was a litle off, there was a secret force deck (which you played but didn't list) and an elf deck (also not listed).\n\n

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Legend
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« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2003, 11:53:42 am »

Thanks Will, I'll edit the list to include the Secret Force deck and the Elf deck. Of course, you played that crazy game against the Elf guy in which he gained all that life with the Wellwisher. If you know of any other decks that I missed, let me know.
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jpmeyer
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« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2003, 12:14:44 pm »

Quote
Quote He sets the Keg at 1 and uses Scroll, targeting a Pup. He calls "Animate Dead." Well, it is a 50/50 shot from a pure numbers standpoint, but if you are good at reading eyes and other tells (which I am), the odds are considerably better than that. After looking him in the eye, I become fairly convinced of which card is the Animate Dead, and sure enough, I choose correctly and pick the other card, Phantom Nishoba.

This is why I always use die rolls for random discards.
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Team Meandeck: "As much as I am a clueless, credit-stealing, cheating homo I do think we would do well to consider the current stage of the Vintage community." -Smmenen
FeverDog
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« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2003, 12:29:46 pm »

I think that having a good poker face, and knowing how to keep cool in these kinds of situations is part of the game. Magic IS still a card game, nevermind what those new-age modo ppl will try to tell you. A person's ability to bluff(or lack thereof) should be part of their overall skill level. Its fine to shuffle your hand or even hide the cards for a second to mix them up, but rolling a die just seems too detatched for me. I understand that from a statistical and purely ethical standpoint it might be superior, but i just dont like it. Then again, i am LEGENDARY for being able to Hymn away my opponent's two most important cards, so perhaps im biased.
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walking dude
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« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2003, 02:34:39 pm »

I know, I allways insist on die rolls particularly against a good/experianced player. If someone is inexperianced or I think they will misread me I let them pick.  But against a good player casting two coercions should cost 6 mana and 2 cards and you are crazy to let them get that effect for 2 mana off one card. Not demanding a die roll on random effects is asking to be at a disadvantage. You might as well just take a shot before the match.
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Maxx Matt
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« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2003, 07:22:26 am »

i usually play keeper and face a lot of sligh with 6-8 blast during the 2 and 3 game...

i don't know why, knowing "the usual project of a sligh player" the keeper player not rely on NON BLU SPELLS AND BULLETS!

i usually side out

mistical
stroke
shaman
maybe 1 or 2 cunning wish
wasteland
geyser


to add :
cop: red
swords
powder keg
pulse
aura
maybe (if it is in my board) celestial dawn

the count of non blu treats is higher than the count of useful blu spells against the sligh player game 2 and 3

key spells are, of course, Demonic tutor, cop red and the abyss.

all the other blu spell could be safely played only after a mind twist or a descarding balance ( the second option is very very rare... but... if he hold in hands only REB and PYRO he is forced to discard some counters !!!   )

if i run celestial dawn i try to force this spell as soon as possible, and if it hits i have only uncounterable cards and he could draw up to 8 dead cards ( siding out some burns the damage/spell ratio is lower than game 1!!! )

the real remaining treats are ankh's ,PoP's and scrolls.
if some powder kegs hit the table i could stall him down for a while setting them to 1 or to 2, depending on the trats in play

and yawgmoths will is black!!!  

i'm not saying that it is a good match up for keeper... i had to play well and draw well to win... but reading the report seems that Raymond didn't draw well or didn't expect your " blast sideboarding plan" and he scoops early and without any answer to your Counter Wall  

what do you think?  

thanks in advance

------------
Maxx Matt
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Rico Suave
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« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2003, 11:26:35 am »

I keep Gorilla Shaman against sligh.

For 3 mana it chomps on Scrolls, 5 for Ankhs.  That's not too bad.

At the very least, it chumps a Pup or takes a burn spell for the team.

In every instance it's not taking down less than 1 other card.

I even SB out Edict and keep the Shaman.
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Razor
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« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2003, 12:04:18 pm »

Legend: Congrats on another great report.

Rico & Maxx: GREAT posts.  I am glad to hear a Keeper player who respects the threat that is Sligh enough to really focus on how to beat it.  Celestial Dawn is tech!

Isn't Zuran Orb usually a key card, too?

And this crap about die-rolling over card-choosing is really lame.  To randomize random-discard or picks, I find it best to just shuffle my hand and fan it out face-down.  This preserves the card game feel which using dice destroys for me.\n\n

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FeverDog
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« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2003, 01:12:21 pm »

Razor, the only problem with that is that most ppl dont change their sleaves before every tourney. One of the tricks is to just look at the back of the sleaves and the corners, because permanents will have more wear & tear on the back due to tapping and such. Instants on the other hand, should be relatively fresh, because they are either in your hand or in the grave. There are tons of little things like this that give more attentive players, like me, an advantage.
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Fever
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« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2003, 01:41:46 pm »

@FeverDog

You are clearly a dirty rotten cheater, i hope you die!\n\n

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Legend
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« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2003, 02:03:15 pm »

"i'm not saying that it is a good match up for keeper... i had to play well and draw well to win... but reading the report seems that Raymond didn't draw well or didn't expect your " blast sideboarding plan" and he scoops early and without any answer to your Counter Wall what do you think?"



It has been my experience that I continue to have the upper hand even when Keeper sides in a considerable amount of Sligh hate. Often, my threats just come out too fast to be dealt with before it is too late. The Keeper player needs to have their answers right away in order to stem the tide of creatures, burn, and artifact damage. This just doesn't happen with enough consistency to head off everything. They might get a COP:Red out, but their mana is being attacked by Wastelands and Shamans. Or maybe I am playing Scald on that day, and I have a Scald in play hampering the COP. Or maybe the damage is coming mostly from Ankhs and Scrolls. My deck just has so many paths to victory that it is difficult for Keeper to cut off all these paths. Think of my deck as a "multiple paths to victory" deck. There are just so many ways it can beat you. I've already won several games with a COP:Red in play against me.

Here are some statistics to support my claim that Keeper is a very good matchup for my Sligh deck, obviously with the understanding that it is a rather small sample size. My match record against Keeper in four tournaments at Neutral Ground with this deck is 4-1. Three of those wins were 2-0's, one was a 2-1, and I lost 0-2 once. Thats an 8-3 games record. These results have not surprised me, because I was already very familiar with the matchup when I decided to play Sligh.  

Understand that I am NOT claiming any specific win percentages here. I'm just simply throwing out the cold numbers that I have produced against Keeper thus far for your consumption. My conclusions are based on my own general perceptions of the matchup and the limited sample of matches at Neutral Ground up to this point.

In all but the most recent of these matches, I was siding out 4 Incinerates for 4 Scalds. In the most recent match, featured in this report, I utilized the Blast plan. I feel that the Scald plan gives me the best shot against Keeper, but I also feel comfortable with the Blast plan after what I saw on Sunday. I was forced into using Blasts on Sunday because of the composition of the rest of the field. So I made the best of the situation and turned it against Keeper also.

The amount of hate I have faced is varied. Some of the Keepers have had more than others, but it generally has not mattered, because they are put under such tremendous pressure right from the start of the game. Another problem is something you alluded to: the quality of the Keeper's draw. I have found that even when the Keeper player gets a decent draw, they are going to be hard pressed to beat me. It will often take a great draw to beat me, because anything less than that can often be all too easy for Ankh Sligh to capitalize on in various ways.

Now, I have a tremendous amount of respect for Keeper. I think it is a great deck, one of the defining decks of the format. I really do. But I have always known how to beat it, and my Sligh deck is no exception to that tradition. Can a Keeper player improve the matchup if they really want to? Yes. But that would require devoting fewer slots to other important matchups, and even then, Ankh Sligh would continue be a hard matchup for Keeper.\n\n

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Dave Kaplan
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« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2003, 07:52:43 pm »

I am near positive, that keeping Keeper guessing is essential to winning the post-board games. Mixing up the Red Blast/Scald options is imperitive, since they will start to develop hate against either, but probably can't prepare for both. The diversity of Sligh's threats has greatly improved the matchup, despite all of the new goodies Keeper has received since Saga, and Sligh ... nothing.
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Fishhead
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« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2003, 08:17:50 pm »

Quote
Quote Here are some statistics to support my claim that Keeper is a very good matchup for my Sligh deck, obviously with the understanding that it is a rather small sample size. My match record against Keeper in four tournaments at Neutral Ground with this deck is 4-1. Three of those wins were 2-0's, one was a 2-1, and I lost 0-2 once. Thats an 8-3 games record.

I like statistics and match records because I can see whats going on clearly.

One thing that I notice by looking at the New York rankings is that Wilkinson & Carl Winter are the only two more-or-less regular Keeper players in Legends rating category.  The Keeper player you play in Round 2 is about 100 points below you for instance.  I think that its difficult to separate how good Ankh Sligh is against Keeper from whether you are outplaying your opponents.  Just an observation for general consumption.

As for the Blasts, I went with them when I testdrove Ankh Sligh just because they are more flexible I believe. And I was pretty happy with them.  I also agree with going to 3 Pyrokenesis, just because I never found a situation that I wanted to bring in all 4.  

Quote
Quote One of the tricks is to just look at the back of the sleaves and the corners, because permanents will have more wear & tear on the back due to tapping and such.

Absolutely.  There are several tricks like this, which I frankly consider cheap.  I make my opponents roll randomly.  On the flip side, I will pick once from an opponents hand if they offer it, and I will try to use the "tells" that they give.  But if their cards are marked, I'll point it out and ask them to use the dice also from then on.  I came to play and have some fun; not to cheese people who dont want to buy new card sleeves every tournament.
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Anonymous
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« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2003, 09:18:10 am »

Fishead: To come to Ray's defense just a month ago his rating was just around 1860 but he has had a bad streak of tournaments and has dropped more then a 100 points.
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Legend
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« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2003, 09:51:54 pm »

I'll also note that Fishhead did overlook one other highly-rated Neutral Ground Keeper player who is still active, that being Mike Pustilnik, whom I have faced six times in sanctioned play, with each of us winning three of those matches. Mike's Vintage rating is 1912. Another highly-rated Keeper player is Rob Williams, who has pretty much the same rating as me, actually just a shade higher at 1866. However, he is inactive right now. The same goes for Matt D'Avanzo, who holds an 1816 rating.
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Fishhead
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« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2003, 11:11:22 pm »

Quote
Quote I'll also note that Fishhead did overlook one other highly-rated Neutral Ground Keeper player who is still active...

Well, its hard to keep track of who is active from the other side of the continent!  Lol.  I thought MikeP was not playing T1 since the Neutral Ground scene tailed off.

Anyway, my point was intended as a general observation: you have to consider that Legend is outranking some of the opponents he gained that 8-3 game score against.  In chess, where everyone plays with the same pieces, I could tell you exactly what an 8-3 game score means.  In Magic part of the game is bringing the right deck for the tournament, so its a little more unclear what 8-3 means.  But it's something to keep in mind when evaluating whether Ankh Sligh is the right deck for you; especially if you arent in the mid-1800s.
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Anonymous
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« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2003, 11:22:13 pm »

Ahh how could I not mention MikeyP, though my record agaisnt him is only in nonsanctioned play. Ahh what a pretty deck! Too lazy to PM Ed when are you going to NG, I am only able to make it on Friday now, and I seem to miss everybody. BTW Robb plays elves.dec.
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Legend
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« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2003, 12:23:49 am »

Fishhead, haha, don't worry about it, no problem at all, I didn't expect you to be keeping track of the Neutral Ground Type I scene! I just wanted to throw out the name of another excellent Keeper player who still shows up at Neutral Ground to better frame the current situation in which I play.

Besides, your point IS well taken, believe me, and it is a perfectly valid one. I would tend to agree with you that my results stem from both factors, the respective ability of the participants (myself and the Keeper opponent) and the decks themselves. Hence, the small sample I have provided is not intended to be the ultimate barometer of the matchup, as you rightly observed. But I would say that my sanctioned results are a fairly good indicator, because it reniforces results that I have noticed in testing against a variety of players. I maintain that Keeper is a very good matchup for LAS, but once again, the results would obviously vary if my deck was in the hands of a less capable player, or conversely if I was playing every match against my toughest Keeper opponents. So point taken.

Also, in response to your other point that you mentioned in passing, I would most definitely NOT say that the Neutral Ground Type I scene has tailed off. This is a myth that I will just put to rest right here. There are still sanctioned events every Friday AND Sunday, and each event will typically draw in between 12 and 20 players, with Sundays drawing closer to 20. The level of play is as strong as ever. While it is true that a couple of the older mainstays are presently inactive, most of the important cast of elite players who attend regularly are still in place. Furthermore, the influx of many newer strong players, especially some guys who I know from Long Island, have certainly made up for the absence of those formerly reliable players that I alluded to. Indeed, some of these newer players are quite good, and I would expect several of the older players who are not currently playing to be returning sometime in the near future, simply because they always do. They always do - they always come back. There are three top players in particular currently inactive from whom I would expect a return at some point: Dave Kaplan (Sligh), Rob Williams (Keeper), and Matt D'Avanzo (Keeper). Other than those guys, though, the traditional cast of big-time players is still in place.

In fact, the NG scene continues to feature not only several players ranked highly in the New York area, but near the top of the WORLD rankings. Several of us are in the top 100 in the world, and there are several more in the next group of players just below that elite level. In fact, the only thing that has changed is that the really big Type I events that were run from July 2001-April 2002 are no longer in the mix. These events had gathered 25-30 person fields featuring some of the best Type I players in the world, with the prizes being either money (anywhere from $150-$250) or a Grudge Match qualification. There were seven such tournaments run during this "boom" time, but with a change in ownership, these events were dissolved.

This had nothing to do with our ability to get strong turnouts for these events, contrary to what some may have believed. Rather, this was due to the incredibly poor job of promoting these events that went on (or rather, did not go on) towards the tail end of this cycle of bigger events. A big Type I tournament in New York WILL always be a drawing card if it is held on an appropriate date and publicized in the way it deserves to be. But this was not being done in the right way towards the end of the cycle of larger events. Furthermore, the new owner of Neutral Ground has done what can only be described as a very poor job, de-emphasizing Magic in general (a huge mistake, as Magic remains the most important game by a huge margin). There will often be Saturdays on which no Magic events of any kind are held, let alone Type I. This is a disgrace and an embarrassment. Not only are there almost no larger NG-sponsored events of ANY Magic format being held, there have been no larger Type I events of course during this disgraceful period of administration. The new owner has done a TERRIBLE job, and is as much responsible for the lack of the old larger events as any other factor. It also doesn't help matters that Neutralground.net has become perhaps the biggest embarassment of a website on the entire Internet. People can hardly be expected to check it when updates are few and far between, and actual content is almost zero. In fact, all you really need to know about Neutralground.net is this: there are 3 spoilers displayed prominently on the main page, the only spoilers displayed on the site - Invasion, Planeshift, and Apocalypse. Ridiculous. Of course, this garbage job of running the store and the website that has been going on since the final days of the previous ownership has NOTHING to do with the Type I scene itself, it just affects it to a certain extent. The demand is still there in a BIG way, with the reliable and talented cast of hardcore Type I veterans in the NY/LI area still in place. The scene continues to flourish with the two regular sanctioned events per week.

In fact the only practical difference now is the absence of these semi-monthly larger events. Neutral Ground still has the bi-weekly events, it still has the high level of competition, and it still features several of the best Type I gunslingers in the world, period. The turnouts at the bigger events were always solid, but more importantly the quality of competition was always on an elite level. The turnouts at the weekly sanctioned events continue to be solid, and the competition continues to be strong. Neutral Ground has always been one of the most important Type I metagames in the world, and even though we no longer have the larger semi-monthly events, I know that Neutral Ground Type I is still on this elite level as one of the Type I capitals of the world. We've still got the same cast of great players with high world rankings playing great decks at a high level of skill.

Westredale, too bad I have missed you on Sundays recently, as I have not been going to the Friday events in the past couple of months. Maybe I'll show up on a Friday at some point, and I hope you'll be able to make it on a Sunday one of these days. I will be going on Sunday, try and show up if you possibly can. As for Rob, I played a couple of games against his elf deck, and it was actually a rather unpleasant match for my deck! Sometimes he plays strange decks when he gets tired of Keeper.\n\n

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3libras
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« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2003, 07:33:08 pm »

That new guy Jeremy also seems incredibly skilled, i don't know what it is but he just seem like an incredible example of a great magic player. Self promotion aside though, I'm new to Neutrel ground and i find it to be a great place to play and a great metagame.
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Legend
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« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2003, 01:40:13 am »

I went to the NG Sunday Type I again today, and again I posted a 3-1 record, good for 3rd place. I was playing the 8 Blast plan just like last week. This will probably be my last tournament for quite some time, since I'm going to take a little break from Magic, so here is a brief summary of the matches:

ROUND 1: Jason Deitsch: ACADEMY

G1: I go second and play a Gorilla Shaman after he had played a couple of Moxes. But I never got another turn. You can figure out what happened.

G2: I side in all 8 Blasts and topdeck a couple of them at the right moment to counter some of his card drawing, plus I Waste his only non-Gemstone Mine land. I then get two Ankhs into play, and Jason is screwed from there. A Gorilla Shaman also did some nice work in this game.

G3: Pretty similar to previous game, except that he actually casts an Ancestral and a decent sized Braingeyser, but in the end a couple of key Blasts and Wastelands slow him down and eventually creatures + Price of Progress dont give him any time to recover.

1-0, 2-1


ROUND 2: John Varelakis: WORLDGORGER DRAGON

G1: Facing down a swarm of creatures, it looks like he will have to draw the game, but he topdecks a Cursed Scroll at the last possible moment and combos me.

G2: I side in my 3 Pyrokinesis for 3 Price of Progress just like last week, and this proves to be the crucial factor in the match. After a few turns, he goes for the combo, but I Lightning Bolt + Pyrokinesis the Dragon as it comes into play and John loses all his permanents. No trouble winning from there.

G3: Similar to previous game, except it was Incinerate + Pyrokinesis, and it happened a little earlier in the game. Same result, though, as John loses all his permanents and I win easily after that. The key here was that I had mulliganed aggressively to find either an Ankh or the Pyrokinesis + Bolt combo, and it payed off.

2-0, 4-2


ROUND 3: Some guy: BAD SLIGH DECK

G1: This guy is playing a very bad Sligh deck, with elements of both more traditional Sligh and Red Stompy, yet without the focus of either. But he had no dead anti-control cards, giving him a clear upper hand. So I then lose the first game to not drawing a single mountain until the very end, when it was far too late. I had only a Mox Ruby for red mana, and I was stuck on two total mana almost the entire game (I also had two Wastelands, but one got Wasted itself) making my Cursed Scrolls useless. I get him down to 2, but he scrapes by since he was able to get a Scroll going just before me.

G2: I draw land after land while this guy gets two Scrolls going, and the game slips away pretty quickly from there.

2-1, 4-4


ROUND 4: Anthony Varelakis: NETHER VOID


G1: He Kegs away a Scroll and a Cadets, but I keep the pressure up with another Scroll and a Gorilla Shaman. Anthony is constantly on the defensive as I burn away Hypnotic Specter after Hypnotic Specter. No trouble winning this one with the Shaman attacking what must have been almost 10 times, and the Scroll doing the rest.

G2: I kill a Nantuko Shade and a Masticore, but he gets a Void out, then bashes me with a Mishra's Factory and another Masticore after all my resources are depleted.

G3: I keep a one Mountain hand, but it has a couple of Jackal Pups and some burn, so I figure I will just try to overrun him before he can get going. He tries to stop me with a second turn Masticore, but I Fanatic and Chain it. After a couple more turns of double Jackal Pup hits, Anthony finds a Powder Keg, but it is way too late as I attack and burn for the win.

3-1, 6-5\n\n

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