Massive MtG tournament

[bebe]

This is a tournament you want to attend.
Top 16 prizes, including (but not limited to)
Black Lotus (U), sealed box of Revised boosters,
sealed box of Dark boosters, Mishra's Workshop,
Cursed Scroll.  More details will be posted on the
HairyT website when their new service is
correctly installed.
Hairy_Tarantula@hotmail.com
is a temporary contact address for them until then.
The tournament costs $40 (approx $25 US), and
that will also get you into the gaming convention
being held there.
Where? Hamilton Convention centre, in Ontario,
Canada.  There's plenty of room for people from
Quebec, Detroit, New York, and anywhere else
in the world that has people who know how hard
these prizes are to find.
Also there is Type II and drafts there (yeah, I
know - but tell anyone who might care about
18 boxes of Type II prizes!)

Please post so people can hook rides into town,
etc...
 

[Marco A Toso]

Anyone have any ideas what the metagame for this tournament will be? And I mean the Type 1 tournament, not the Type 2 tournament... Will GAT or Psychatog be heavily played? What about TNT or Monobrown? I expect a lot of Control (Keeper)...

[bebe]

The latest skinny ...  


 :    :   :  : ::MAY 11th, 2003:: :  :   :    :

:  : ::at the HAMILTON CONVENTION CENTRE:: :  :

:    :   :  : :in conjunction with: :  :   :    :
:   :  : ::the GREAT CANADIAN BAYCON:: :  :   :   :

:   :  : ::the HAIRY TARANTULA presents:: :  :   :

TWO MAGIC TOURNAMENTS worth $5,000.00!

Important to note: For directions to the
Hamilton Convention Centre, go to the Baycon
website (WWW.greatcanadianbaycon.CA).  Make
sure you allow enough time to get lost in
Hamilton if you've never driven there before -
most of the streets are one-way only and it
can be confusing to anyone not from there!

Entry to the convention is $15 at the door, or
$10 prepaid (at the Hairy T & other locations)

IF YOU PAY FOR THE TYPE I or TPYE II THEN
YOUR ADMISSION IS INCLUDED.  YOU NEED NOT
PAY TWICE. REPEAT, ADMISSION TO BAYCON IS
INCLUDED WITH YOUR ENTRY TO EITHER MAJOR
MAGIC TOURNAMENT.

NOTE ALSO: Since it's MOTHER'S DAY on May 11th,
MOMs with minors get in free!

*The Type I tournament costs $40 (Cdn)
*The Type II tournament costs $25 (Cdn)
*Both Type I and Type II begin at 10:00am
*Registration begins at 8:00am
*Preregistration available at the Hairy Tarantula.
*Bonus gift available for preregistering.

DRAFTS will run all day, whenever 8 people
sign up.  Cost $15, 3 rounds swiss, 1st prize
6 packs, second prize 3 packs.

:    :   :  : ::PRIZES:: :  :   :    :
:   : ::TYPE I:: :   :
A: Black Lotus (Unlimited)
B: Dark box (60 packs)
C: Revised box (36 packs)
D: Mana Drain (Legends)
*the top 4 prizes are awarded
 by choice: first pick to 1st
 place, last pick to 4th. Note
 the retail value of the Lotus
 is less than either booster
 box (but only if it stays sealed)!
5th: Mirror Universe (Legends)
6th: Mishra's Workshop (Antiquities)
7th: Berserk (Unlimited)
8th: Moat (Legends)
9th: 4 Revised Dual Lands*
10th: 4 Revised Dual Lands*
11th: 3 Revised Dual Lands*
12th: 3 Revised Dual Lands*
13th: Drop of Honey (Arabians)
14th: Khabal Ghoul (Arabians)
15th: Cursed Scroll (Tempest)
16th: Maze of Ith (Dark)
* Your choice of Dual Lands

:   : ::TYPE II:: :   :
1st: 3 booster boxes (108)*
2nd: 2 booster boxes (72)*
3rd: 1 booster box (36)*
4th: 1 booster box (36)*
5th: 2/3 booster box (24)*
6th: 2/3 booster box (24)*
7th: 2/3 booster box (24)*
8th: 2/3 booster box (24)*
9th: 1/2 booster box (18)*
10th 1/2 booster box (18)*
11th 1/2 booster box (18)*
12th 1/2 booster box (18)*
13th: 15 booster packs*
14th: 15 booster packs*
15th: 15 booster packs*
16th: 15 booster packs*
17th: 12 booster packs* (1/3 box)
18th: 12 booster packs* (1/3 box)
19th: 12 booster packs* (1/3 box)
20th: 12 booster packs* (1/3 box)
21st: 12 booster packs* (1/3 box)
22nd: 12 booster packs* (1/3 box)
23rd: 12 booster packs* (1/3 box)
24th: 12 booster packs* (1/3 box)
25th: 1/4 box boosters (9 packs)*
26th: 1/4 box boosters (9 packs)*
27th: 1/4 box boosters (9 packs)*
28th: 1/4 box boosters (9 packs)*
29th: 1/4 box boosters (9 packs)*
30th: 1/4 box boosters (9 packs)*
31st: 1/4 box boosters (9 packs)*
32nd: 1/4 box boosters (9 packs)*
TOTAL: 18 booster boxes (648 packs)*

*boosters awarded in YOUR CHOICE of
 ANY COMBINATION of 7th Edition,
 Onslaught, or Legions.  Some other
 sets MAY be available depending on
 our supply (like Odyssey).

NOTE TO JUDGES with CERTIFICATION:
We still need some people to help
judge these tournaments.  Even
though these events are NOT SANCTIONED,
WE WILL BE PLAYING BY DCI RULES.
This means 60 card minimum decks,
no visible markings (i.e. sleeves if
necessary), 15 card sideboards, etc.
YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR KNOWING THE
BANNED AND RESTRICTED LISTS FOR YOUR
RESPECTIVE TOURNAMENTS!

Anyone wishing to judge should contact
Leon at the Hairy Tarantula. Info below...

The Baycon is also a convention with a
number of attractions for people of all
ages.  Settlers of Cattan, Yugi-Oh,
Battletech, HeroClix, MechWarrior, MageKnight,
and many other games will have demos and
tounaments.  There will be a number of
dealers offering a wide variety of gaming
product for sale.  WE ARE CRACKING OUT SOME
CARDS THAT I'VE BEEN HIDING FOR SOME TIME,
EXCLUSIVELY AT BAYCON.  This includes a
selection of RARE TYPE I cards and BETA!

:   :  : ::TRANSPORTATION:: :  :   :
Anyone able to offer carpooling please
contact us at the Hairy Tarantula.  Anyone
needing a ride also contact us.  We'll set
up people with rides - just note the basic
polite rule: $5 from passenger to driver,
please.  DO IT NOW - time is short.

Please assist us in making this a success.
We've promised (and those of you who know
us are not worried about us backing out)
$5,000 worth of prizes, and we're going to
give them away.  If you don't tell your
friends, then your odds of winning are better.
However, if your friends don't come, and we
lose thousands of dollars, we aren't going
to go so far on a limb next time.
IF THIS TOURNAMENT SUCCEEDS (i.e. we only
lose less than $1000 or make money) THEN
WE'LL DO ANOTHER ONE IN ABOUT A YEAR, WITH
EQUAL OR BETTER PRIZE SUPPORT!

Please tell your friends (and enemies) so
that we can continue to offer you enormous
prize support and hassle-free organization.

Thanks in advance and I hope to see you there!

Leon
Hairy Tarantula
354 Yonge St. (2nd floor)
downtown Toronto
Ontario Canada
M5B-1S5

www.HairyT.com

e-mail: MAGIC@HairyT.com

[mtgontario]

I was very disappointed with the small turnout (31 players for the T1) - especially with such great prizes! Thanks to HairyT for running these events, I had a great time (even though I scrubbed out). Maybe all the "serious" T1 players were at the Pro Tour in Japan or spending time with their mothers? Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Trent

[Shock Wave]

Quote Maybe all the "serious" T1 players were at the spending time with their mothers? Not that there's anything wrong with that...

So then why is "serious" in quotations, if "there isn't anything wrong with that" ? The event was scheduled on the worst day possible, so you should not have been surprised by the small turnout.

[trancefusion]

Shockwave. While I agree that scheduling a big tourney on mother's day was not the greatest idea, I don't think that Trent meant any harm by his comment, and I agree that a turnout of 31 is weak. Why is it that 50%+ of these type I tournaments are on long weekends or holidays??.

I was dissapointed that it was not a dci-sanctioned event (I mean if a game is played and the DCI doesn't know about it, did it really happen???)

Anyone know what deck won (and who piloted it)? What was the field like? And also when is the next type I at 401? Is it the second sunday in June?

[specialk]

Reanimator won it but Lam and me came away with the better prizes

[bebe]

Unfortunately the turnout was terrible. We offered over 5000 dollars in prizes, advertised it heavily and ended up losing close to three thousand dollars.
We will no longer hold large tournaments. No American or Quebec players came out to support us. We were willing to take a loss of a thousand dollars or so but this was unacceptable.
It seems that the community has a distorted view of what we were attempting to do. We wanted to revive Type 1 in Ontario. A number of people who had shown interest and said they would support the venue never showed up.
We said it would be held on mother's day three months in advance and no one objected.
When we held tournaments in Toronto at Hairy Ts we always offered P9 and twenty people would show up and complain that twenty dollars Canadian was too much to spend and we should lose money every tournament.
This does not fly. We had to cancel these tournaments as well. We spoke to 401 and for awhile he offered better prizes as well but eventually had to offer less and charge less and still the turnouts are bad ( 12 -16 players).
When i first started pushing for tournaments we always got around twenty-five to thirty the first seven months.  
You wonder why I retired my cards and do not wish to play here anymore? I spent two years trying to get the MtG community supporting the venues. I am out of ideas.
So stop whining about dates, times and prizes and stop making excuses. Soon Type 1 will die here again. Who will revive it next time?
It is not about the prizes and entry fees people. It is about finding a place to run them and supporting that venue.

- end rant

[trancefusion]

Prizes and entry fees are irrelevant to me, I couldn't care less if it cost $5-$10 to enter and the store/venue only handed out 50% of the cash as prizes. What I *do* care about is the DCI and DCI sanctioned type I events. Like Mr. Rosewater stated, the DCI will support more type I events when the number of people playing increase and the only measure of that according to them is sanctioned tournaments. I entered a few tourney's when they were at Hairy T's and even though I was told it was going to be a DCI sanctioned event, the event never showed up under played tournaments. At least at 401 this is not a problem.

I can appreciate that you are trying to revive type I in toronto, and I applaud your efforts, however would it not have been a better idea to offer prizes based on attenance? For example: 8-24 players = prize pool A, 25-48 players = prize pool B, 49-72 players = prize pool C. I mean nobody wants you or Hairy T to take a hit like you took on mother's day.

If players were not so damn greedy it would help. I mean come on, most players want to suck the marrow out of the store they frequent. They have little to no regard to the fact that the store is a business and they need to make money so that you the player have a place to play sanctioned events. I highly doubt that Leon, John or Chris/Lance are getting rich running a card gaming store. We the players should not demand such unrealistic prizes.

On a side note, I have been thinking of trying to get Nexus X to run a sanctioned Type I, just wondering if anyone would be interested? As long as 8 people show up to make it sanctioned I would be happy.

[Shock Wave]

Quote While I agree that scheduling a big tourney on mother's day was not the greatest idea, I don't think that Trent meant any harm by his comment, and I agree that a turnout of 31 is weak.

The post has a sarcastic tone, and it implies that the "serious" T1 players should have been there. That's the way it comes across, regardless of what the intention of the post is. Unfortunately, some people have other things in mind on Mother's Day, and sometimes playing magic doesn't fit into everyone's agenda.

Quote A number of people who had shown interest and said they would support the venue never showed up.

Quote Unfortunately the turnout was terrible. We offered over 5000 dollars in prizes, advertised it heavily and ended up losing close to three thousand dollars. We will no longer hold large tournaments.

To be honest Paul, from a business perspective, if you're going to hold a tournament at a large venue and expect people to show up just because they say so, get ready to lose some money. If the organizers were concerned about losing money, then there should have been a pre-registration fee organized to get an idea of how many players were intending to commit to the tournament.

Quote We said it would be held on mother's day three months in advance and no one objected.

Holding the tournament on Mother's Day was just not a good idea. Let's face it, people have families/girlfriends/wives out there and for many this day means some sort of family function. I bet half the people that said they were going to show up and did not were with their families.

Quote No American or Quebec players came out to support us. We were willing to take a loss of a thousand dollars or so but this was unacceptable.

With respect to Quebec/US players showing up, it was wishful thinking. Why would *anyone* from either Quebec/US come to Ontario to play? Quebec has awesome T1 tournies, and the reason that a few people from Ontario go down to play is that our venues are absolute shit. I can't see what would motivate Quebec players to come up here, certainly not "the love of the game". I wish it were so, but unfortunately it is not. The same thing applies to US players: they don't need to come up here to play in a great magic tourney.

Quote It is not about the prizes and entry fees people. It is about finding a place to run them and supporting that venue.

You're absolutely incorrect here Paul. It *IS* about prizes and it *IS* about entry fees. The prizes for this tournament were great, but several people I spoke with were concerned about the entry fee. It was a little steep. Not too many people out there want to play $40 to play magic. You're going to say "Well then how are we supposed to fund these sorts of prizes?!" but the point is that there is no reason why you should have been giving those prizes out in the first place. To give away those sorts of prizes for 2nd and 3rd place, you're going to have to considerably bump up the entry fee, which is going to scare away players. Regardless of what the prizes are, people just don't want to pay $40!

A Black Lotus for 1st, a box of something current for 2nd (or maybe a Unl. power card or LOA), and random stuff for the rest of the Top 8-16 should draw a good number of people. This could be done with a $20 entry fee, which would increase the number in attendance.

Quote When we held tournaments in Toronto at Hairy Ts we always offered P9 and twenty people would show up and complain that twenty dollars Canadian was too much to spend and we should lose money every tournament

I'm not going to comment on this, but the players who attended the Hairy T's tournies were not pleased with a number of issues at that venue. It seems that 401 and Untouchables in Mississauga can run tournaments with small turnouts 10-15 players, but everyone is satisfied. To me, that's better than not running tournaments at all.

Quote You wonder why I retired my cards and do not wish to play here anymore? I spent two years trying to get the MtG community supporting the venues. I am out of ideas.

I feel bad about the losses, but I wouldn't give up yet Paul. I think this could be a great summer for T1 in Ontario. Now is the time to run the bigger tournaments, with people off school/work and such. I am thinking of taking the responsibility of organizing a T1 tournament sometime soon. Hopefully things will turn around.

[specialk]

If the tournament aren't sanctioned then why not allow proxies and a charge of $10 so that if you go you won't mind losing $10 playing magic and you wouldn't have to be worried about your deck being lesser then eveyone elses

[bebe]

Shockwave, you have my respect. I don't think though you fully comprehend how tough it is to get these monthly tournaments going. Leon took them on only after 401 turned them down. Then Leon showed they could be run. He was happy to let 401 take them over as we all knew that the players were fickle and big prizes could not last. 401's support is now waning but John will run them for less of a fee and be satisfied with whatever turnout he gets for now. I hope people show up this next Sunday so that the last monthly can continue.  

Quote
To be honest Paul, from a business perspective, if you're going to hold a tournament at a large venue and expect people to show up just because they say so, get ready to lose some money. If the organizers were concerned about losing money, then there should have been a pre-registration fee organized to get an idea of how many players were intending to commit to the tournament.

There was some preregistration. Once committed though we felt obligated to hold up our end. We fully expected to lose around a thousand dollars. Losing well over three thousand was rough.

Quote
Holding the tournament on Mother's Day was just not a good idea. Let's face it, people have families/girlfriends/wives out there and for many this day means some sort of family function. I bet half the people that said they were going to show up and did not were with their families.

Again, we really did try and get feedback. I will not pursue the whys of it anymore, but the organizers were as good as their word.

Quote
You're absolutely incorrect here Paul. It *IS* about prizes and it *IS* about entry fees. The prizes for this tournament were great, but several people I spoke with were concerned about the entry fee. It was a little steep. Not too many people out there want to play $40 to play magic. You're going to say "Well then how are we supposed to fund these sorts of prizes?!" but the point is that there is no reason why you should have been giving those prizes out in the first place. To give away those sorts of prizes for 2nd and 3rd place, you're going to have to considerably bump up the entry fee, which is going to scare away players. Regardless of what the prizes are, people just don't want to pay $40!

A Black Lotus for 1st, a box of something current for 2nd (or maybe a Unl. power card or LOA), and random stuff for the rest of the Top 8-16 should draw a good number of people. This could be done with a $20 entry fee, which would increase the number in attendance

When the fees were less and we gave a Mox for first - yes we did that twice - people felt that twenty dollars was too high. We lost money each time but would have continued if there was not so much complaining. Those who complain the venue the loudest are invariably those who lose.

 

Quote
I feel bad about the losses, but I wouldn't give up yet Paul. I think this could be a great summer for T1 in Ontario. Now is the time to run the bigger tournaments, with people off school/work and such. I am thinking of taking the responsibility of organizing a T1 tournament sometime soon. Hopefully things will turn around.

I honestly wish you luck. I think one tournament has the possibility of doing well, but a monthly venue for reasonable prizes seems no longer feasible. Even 401 was limited to a mana drain for 1st prize and a poor turnout last month. No more P10. Now, I don't care about the prize. But without decent prizes people just do not attend.

Transfusion - I think you know where I'm coming from.

Quote
On a side note, I have been thinking of trying to get Nexus X to run a sanctioned Type I, just wondering if anyone would be interested? As long as 8 people show up to make it sanctioned I would be happy.

I wish you the best. Most of the new venues ususually get initial support for about three to six months. Please prove me wrong over the course of a year.

Finally

Quote
With respect to Quebec/US players showing up, it was wishful thinking. Why would *anyone* from either Quebec/US come to Ontario to play? Quebec has awesome T1 tournies, and the reason that a few people from Ontario go down to play is that our venues are absolute shit. I can't see what would motivate Quebec players to come up here, certainly not "the love of the game". I wish it were so, but unfortunately it is not. The same thing applies to US players: they don't need to come up here to play in a great magic tourney.

Because Americans would have payed twenty-five dollars for the convention and tournament and could have won some great prizes? It's not that far over the border. The hope was to do this bi-annually to ensure a high caliber of play and substantial rewards for players. But you are right. Why should anyone respect the Ontario crew.

[Shock Wave]

Quote Shockwave, you have my respect. I don't think though you fully comprehend how tough it is to get these monthly tournaments going.

Ohhh I do. Trust me, I do. Paul, what I think you are overlooking is that your commitment to the game is far beyond what should be expected from the average T1 player. I admire the fact that you've been working hard to keep T1 going in Toronto, as I really do love the game and play it at every opportunity. Unfortunately, there aren't too many players in Ontario who are committed to the scene. Thus, most tournament ventures are doomed from the get-go.

Quote I think one tournament has the possibility of doing well, but a monthly venue for reasonable prizes seems no longer feasible. Even 401 was limited to a mana drain for 1st prize and a poor turnout last month. No more P10. Now, I don't care about the prize. But without decent prizes people just do not attend.

You've made a good point here in stating that a monthly T1 tourney for power is no longer feasible. To put it simply, you're right, it definitely isn't, for a multitude of reasons.

1) Ontario doesn't have *enough* T1 players who are willing to gather for monthly power tournaments.
2) Those 8-10 who are committed get bored of playing and metagaming against each other every month.
3) There aren't many casual T1 players who are willing to pay to get their asses handed to them.
4) There aren't very many venues out there who are willing to organize T1 tourneys

Do keep in mind though, that a smaller venue I attend hosts *weekly* sanctioned T1 tournaments that gather 10-20 people a week. It is a totally scrubby metagame, and the prizes are awful, but the interest to play (for a small entry fee) is there.

My idea is to organize 2 tournaments for this summer with a few months in between to keep the interest level high and the quality of the prizes high. Perhaps 1 in July and 1 in September would gather enough interest, provided the prizes are high enough.

In any case, I'm going to do some posting on mtgontario.com and find out if I can gather some players together for something big.

[Drogo]

Quote (bebe @ May 15 2003,10:37)Unfortunately the turnout was terrible. We offered over 5000 dollars in prizes, advertised it heavily and ended up losing close to three thousand dollars.

I was really sad to see you guys take the hit on this one, I'd like to see more Type 1 options locally, but this one had a couple major strikes against it from the start.  Mother's Day was bad although I think it was actually a minor issue compared to the high entry fee and running a very large Type 2 tourney at the same location and time.  

You're right though Paul, it isn't just about prizes.  Look at Bingeman's, their Top 8 prizes are not particularly great considering their attendance but they keep drawing 120+ time after time.  

Tony

[specialk]

hey Drogo have you seen the people bitching on mtgontario.com about the prizes for bingemans?

[Drogo]

Quote (specialk @ May 16 2003,03:18)hey Drogo have you seen the people bitching on mtgontario.com about the prizes for bingemans?

Yeah I've seen them Arend, I was one of the early bitchers.  The complaining is justified to some extent but the people complaining should take a good look at what happened in Hamilton.  The prizes there were light years better than what Bingeman's offers and they drew about 1/4 of what Bingeman's gets on their worst day.  Prizes are only part of what makes a good tourney.  Having said that, it is still inexcusable that Bingeman's isn't putting a Power card up for first prize.

Tony