I assume that people discussing in this thread play in a respectable metagame, or more directly put, a high powered metagame.
Quote Seeing as the last thread on fish ended a while back, i was curious to see what everyone thinks about where Gay Fish is after mirrodin's release.
@ TheMadScotsMan: The problem with mirrodin is that it is 50% artifacts, many of which have activation costs (all equipment) which does not combo with null rod. The blue cards in mirrodin deal mostly with affinity or other artifact relations. So, to make a comparison of a set that is centered around artifacts with a deck that runs 3 artifacts that shut other artifacts down is a lost cause.
The only problem that I have with your decklist is the lack of 4 wasteland along with the random psi blast / coastal piracy, both of which are sub-par.
Quote The only post-Mirrodin change I can think of is possibly running Chalices in the side for Long, Tog, and budget Aggro.
@g0dzillA: True, while chalice does help versus Long, you shouldn't need it; force of will, stifle, and null rod should be enough to do well against Long.
On the other hand, Chalice being used against tog or budget aggro doesn't sound like a good idea. Chalice for 1 or 2 nukes quite a few cards in your deck in the aggro matchup. Against to, do you really think you'll have 6 mana to spend on "chalice for 3" and have it resolve? True, it may be the nail in the cofin, so to speak, but it doesn't sound like a plan that I would like to rely on.
Quote Why no REB in the SB ? I think it would be one of the main reasons to splash red...
@ Blofeld: The
main reason to splash red is for creature control. That is what fish lacks in the maindeck. Playing fish versus TnT, or any aggro deck, is much easier when you have access to red as opposed to just blue. While REB is a house in the control matchup, you shouldn't need it.
Quote how has subbing in stifles for misD's worked out for you? i tried the same thing a while back and found that stifle sat in my hand a lot more than misD did, more so in the early rounds (where budget aggro runs rampant). do you think main decking them is a better strategy than bringing them in from the board?
@Mox Monkey: Play both. Against budget aggro, stifle will usually be a "counter target wasteland" and misdirections will be what they are against mono black:
AWSOME. In later rounds both stifle and misdirection have their helpful uses. I would never not want both in my maindeck.
Quote Against other decks when you might want to side in the mazes, you'll probably lose them to land destruction anyway (Sui in particular) or won't be able to target the problematic creatures (Morphlings/FEB?).
@Blofeld: Suicide will most likely side out their sinkholes after game 1 because fish has maindeck misdirections. In regards of morphling, the game you are concerned with is what happens before morphling hits the table. If superman does indeed make an appearance in play, then something has gone wrong with your strategy.
Quote Hmm - I'm noticing how you guys still play 4 Maze Of Ith in the side. I used to do that as well, and they are certainly sweetylicious against Atogs, Verdant Force (= autoloss ) and turn 1 12/12's. But apart from that, they just don't do enough in my book
Verdant force should never see play. Stifle and force of will stop dance of the dead, necromancy, and animate dead. Misdirection stops reanimate assuming there is a less lethal target in someone's graveyard. Unless you have force of will, you will lose to exhume. However, assuming we are talking about dragon, which does not play exume or reanimate, you should be fine.
Quote Losing the mazes will weaken the aggro matchup. Adding a few Control magic's/Legacy's Allure would do this job nicely, no?
Control magic and legacy's allure are extremely slow. Control magic costs four mana; four mana is a long time away from a dreadnought on the table or even a nantuko shade. Legacy's allure is far too slow as it relys on the targeted creature's power. So, in 7 turns, that verdant force is yours. However, until that seventh turn starts, you're in trouble. It may be cute to steal MUD's metalworkers/goblin welders a turn after you cast legacy's allure, but I'd rather just race permanents and win.
To everyone: A good portion of people don't truely understand that fish is most reliant on out-tempoing your opponent. Play threats, draw cards, counter whatever your opponent plays that is relevant to what you have on the board. Disrupt them with wasteland, stifle, null rod, force of will, standstill and you will win.
It isn't possible to outmuscle another aggro deck because all of your creatures are 1/1's, 1/2's, 2/1's, and 2/2's. In this case, evasion is your best route to victory. Grim lavamancer and flying creatures will walk around whatever your opponent may have in play.
Disrupting an opponent's manabase is probably the best thing that a fish player can do to assure victory whether it be from wasteland/strip mine, null rod, stifle (fetchlands), or gorilla shaman.
Here is a sample decklist that I used today (11/20/03) to place 1st at C&J's type-1 tournament.
fish.dec
Maindeck:
3 gorilla shaman
4 grim lavamancer
4 cloud of faerie
4 spiketail hatchling
4 force of will
2 misdirection
2 stifle
4 standstill
4 curiosity
1 ancestral recall
1 time walk
1 merchant scroll
3 null rod
1 library of alexandria
1 strip mine
4 wasteland
4 mishra's factory
1 mox sapphire
2 faerie conclave
4 flooded strand
4 volcanic island
2 island
sideboard:
4 maze of ith
1 null rod
2 fire/ice
1 stifle
3 hydroblast
2 energy flux
2 rootwater theif\n\n
