The success of any suicide black deck really depends one ...

[Cyber_Sophist]

The success of any suicide black deck really depends one the sideboard. Yes, there are some differences in the MD, but the biggest factor is knowing how much of ones sideboard to devote to a match up in order to win it. In this post I am going to try to discuss the different sideboard options against dragon and to find out how many SB slots need to be devoted to this match up.

Based on ones average mono black deck (here’s mine for reference, I don’t think the inclusion/exclusion of chalice has that big an effect on the dragon match up, but I could be mistaken)
4x Sinkhole
4x Duress
4x Hymn to Tourach

4x Wasteland
1x Stripmine
16x Swamps
1x Mox Jet
1x Black Lotus
4x Dark Ritual

4x Hypnotic Specter
4x Withered Wretch
4x Nantuko Shade
4x Phyrexian Negator

2x Misc (I am currently running Null Rod here, but it’s a metagame choice)
1x Demonic Consultation
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Yawgmoth’s Will

What I have endeavored to do in this post is foster a discussion as to not only the best card/combination of cards to beat dragon, but also how many sideboard slots need to be devoted to dragon in order to have a comfortable win % against it.

As I see it, there are really 4 SB options that are viable, and the final two just barely, if at all. These four are Tormod's Crypt, Coffin Purge, Planar Void, and Diabolic Edict.
All of them have there distinct advantages and disadvantages which I will attempt fo briefly highlight in the following analysis.

Crypt: This card has some obvious advantages, the most blatant of these being that it costs 0 and can destroy their entire graveyard.
However, it is a permanent which means its subject to the deeds that Dragon invariably sides in against Sui

Coffin Purge: This card is cheap, its an instant, and it has to be countered twice. Its disadvantages, if any, are marginal, but I don't know if four hate cards are enough and it does cost 1 mana, making it slightly worse that crypt and meaning that you have to leave mana open for it. Additionally, it is not as useful as crypt in other matchups like Neo-GAT or Hulk.

Diabolic Edict: Edict costs twice as much as Purge, is no longer effective if countered or duressed, and only really has 2 things going for it. It acts as a one-sided Disc if successful, and can be useful in other matchups too.

Planar Void: This suffers from deed same as crypt, is not as useful late game, and allows dragon to still go off occasionally with necromancy. However, makes Bazaars a lot less good, and still causes a lot of problems for dragon, especially if played early.

Anyhow, these were the four big ones I could think of, so any thoughts on additional cards or on how many SB cards are needed, and which ones, along with the MD wretches, to make sure Sui has a victory against dragon.

[Sandster]

I assume one of your Withered Wretches are Phyrexian Negators (you put them twice).

Against Dragon, you don't want to turn into a hate deck because Dragon is extremely resiliant.  With Tormod's Crypt and maybe Planar Void sided in, just concentrate on disruption and beatings.  Because Dragon cannot be hated easily, I would devote no more than 4 slots of combating it.  Remember, you already have Withered Wretch, which works wonders against Dragon.

[Binary]

This particular build has 9 different cards to destroy Bazaar, targeted graveyard removal in Withered Wretch, and discard with a real chance of knocking the first couple game-winning enchantments out of hand.

I think that's enough juice to warrant a maximum of two sideboard slots. These would replace the Null Rods which are effectively dead in that matchup.

IMO the only two real choices here are Crypt and Coffin Purge.
There are a lot of strong arguments for Coffin Purge over Crypt... discard can only stop it once, counters can only stop it once, it's immune to Stifle.

However, I think I'm going to have to give the edge to Crypt for a couple of reasons, primarily because the deck is so tight on mana for those vital first turns. Sui by its very name is meant to throw itself full-force at the opponent, and it simply can't wait around with the two black mana untapped it would need to cast/flashback the Purge in one turn.

Perhaps if the deck had more instant-speed effects that it could use the mana on ("Well, he didn't go off, so at least I can use the mana to do X") I'd be more apt to give the nod to Coffin Purge, but with the bulk of the deck being sorcery-speed, it's a case of foregoing most or all of your plays for the turn just to guarantee that Coffin Purge that you may not need.

In short, two Crypts from SB plus maindeck Wretches/LD/discard should probably be enough to slow Dragon's game down to a manageable rate.

[morphon]

Sophist:

The unfortunate problem for Sui against Dragon is the sheer number of open slots in the Dragon deck available for disruption - and they will often check your hand to see if it is safe before going off.

On that note: I would suggest not trying to hate out Dragon with your SB, but instead focusing on the core components of Sui: mana denial, disruption, and fast black fat. You already have the Waste/Strip/Sinkhole to take out any Bazaars that show up, and the Wretch, once active makes it very difficult for Dragon to go off (since you can always remove in response to a reanimation enchantment). Assuming the fully-powered Bazaar B/U version (like the ones DiceManX has discussed in his primer), I would imagine that Coffin Purge (since it has to be countered twice and only costs B) is probably your best bet. Edict is unbelievable if you can get it to resolve, but since it has to be in your hand at the proper time, it can easily be Duressed/Therapied away or simply FoW'd. Coffin Purge is in many ways immune to Duress/Therapy, even though it usually only removes one Dragon. Crypt is very good, but you have this problem:

Him: Cast Animate Dead
You: Activate Tormod's Crypt in response
Him: Okay, after Crypt's ability resolves, I'll activate Bazaar and dump another two dragons before Animate's graveyard trigger goes on the stack. Or just cast Necromancy in Response.

Purge can't get around this problem either, since it does not hit the graveyard until it resolves off the stack, thus keeping your flashback impossible while Necromancy is played as an instant. This, of course, assumes a very nice hand for the Dragon player - something not always possible, especially since between your discard and the Bazaars, they shouldn't have much of a hand left.

I said all of that to say this: Hating the Bazaars and trashing their hand can do wonders against Dragon. As far as graveyard hate goes, Withered Wretch is as good as any other (if not better - it just eats away as much as you can pay for - at instant speed, no less). If you feel that you must play more hate (afraid of Deed wrecking your permanents), go for Purge - it can't be deeded away like Crypt and is much harder to counter/play-around.

BTW: I've played Dragon under a chalice - it really doesn't do much against the (more) diverse cc's of Dragon.

[Sandster]

I would like to make some changes to my previous post

Since UBg Dragon uses Deed to take care of permanents and Xantid Swarm to deal with spells, I think you should go with Coffin Purge as your SB removal (if you even need it, and even then no more than 3).  Withered Wretch is better than Coffin Purge and Tormod's Crypt combined, but if Dragon drops a Deed on you the Crypt and Wretch will both die, whereas if you have Coffin Purge Dragon needs both Xantid Swarm and Deed to completely neutralize your graveyard hating schemes.  As such, with Wretch MD I think Purge is the better choice here.

The rest of the deck can be focused on hand and land disruption and beatdown.  Unless Dragon gets a God hand, you should be able to compete effectively and even dictate the tempo of the game.

[BreathWeapon]

I will tell you exactly how to SB vs Dragon with Sui. If your MDing 4 Withered Wretch, game 2 side in 3 Coffin Purge and a Gaea's Blessing. Dragon players will not side in Xantid Swarms game 2 in preference of Pernicious Deed for your MD Wretches. Dragon players almost always seem to default to Ambassador Laquatos for their kill, so the Blessing should upset their plans immensely if they fall for it. Caltrops are also a nice touch vs Sliver Queen. This should give you a good game, diversification of hate is very key. Chains of Mephistophelese are also very potent if you own them, they turn Bazaar into discard 5 \n\n

[Cold Eternal]

I have 3 MD Withered Wretches. Since I dropped Sinkholes
(to run R splash) I have been needing to and do sideboard 3
Blood Moon as one answer. I also have 3 Chains of Mephistolpheles
and 3 Tormod's Crypt, all having usefulness against other
decks as well.

[Tijnie]

As a Suicide player I prefer to play cards with multi use.

Diabolic Edict, you need a sb for agrro anyway so this is a real good hit (3 sb)
Chains op mep. I love this card, I play 2 of them maindeck and 1 in my sb
3 coffin pruge, well, these are the only cards without a real other goal then graveyard hate. but graveyard hate can be very handy in a lot of matchups. (3 sb)
Withered Wretch, witch a changing Meta, this became something like hyppie used to be, creature and disruption in one card, 2/2 for 2 mana aint bad and a rocking ability. loving it (3 md).

Crypt can be nice in your sb for dragon but they will be sideboarding Deeds for you and your wretches&chains. so crypt is going to suck like a donkey. same goes for planar void wich is actually horrible graveyard hate.

about you deck, plz cut at least 1 hyppie, 4 is serieus overkill and it only slows down our deck, and put back those 3 Null Rods!!  

Greetings Tijnie