I've been playing this deck since the summer and am s...

[Robert the Swordsman]

I've been playing this deck since the summer and am still working on it. It has been dubbed "Politics", and I've posted it a couple of times. I'm trying again with the current list.

//NAME: Politics
//Artifacts (16):
    1 Zuran Orb
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Sol Ring
    1 ( Vault / Ruby / something else, perhaps, but not Crypt. )
    3 Winter Orb
    3 Tangle Wire
    2 Ivory Tower
// Blue (14):
    4 Trade Routes
    4 Force of Will
    1 Fact or Fiction
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Gush
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Time Walk
    1 Timetwister
//White (7):
    4 Land Tax
    1 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Balance
    1 Enlightened Tutor
//Black (3):
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Mind Twist
    1 The Abyss
//Green (2):
    1 Gaea's Blessing
    1 Regrowth
//Multi (3):
    2 Iridescent Angel
    1 Vindicate
// Land (15):
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Plains
    3 Island
    1 Swamp
    1 Forest
    1 Tundra
    1 Tolarian Academy

//Sideboard (15):
    4 Meddling Mage
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    3 Hurkyll's Recall
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Seal of Cleansing
    1 Rule of Law

The deck is basically Land Tax / Trade Routes drawing engine with some artifact lock components for control and other good cards thrown in to top it off.

EDIT: I had a very long and well thought out list of card choices, but due to my computer doing some harcore sucking, they were accidentally erased while I was editing this. I also had the very original alpha-stages decklist for humor, but that was also lost. I apologize, and if you wish any explanations, you can look at my old threads for the deck (these contain very thorough reasoning on the card choices) or PM me through TMD or IM me at RobtheSwordsman.

Any suggestions would be appreciated, thank you.

[VideoGameBoy]

I think I played an incarnation of this, with Black and White Knights.

Morphling is strictly better than Iridescent Angel, and the same goes for Scroll Rack over Trade Routes.  You don't like hearing it, but too freakin' bad.  The couple of mana you save casting Morphling over Angel will win you games; plus he doesn't tap to attack, has infinte toughness, and deals 5 instead of 4 damage.

Vindicate is actually pretty cool - I saw you use it as LD, and that can win games besides the fact it gets rid of any problem permanent.

Propaganda is worthless in T1.

Keep up the good work; a little more broken in this deck, and it could easily be the next EBA.

[SummenSaugen]

I've seen just enough of EBA.  :-\

Anyway, I disagree with the statement that Scroll Rack is better than Trade Routes.  The list of reasons why is huge, and I'm sure Rob knows all of them already, but a couple things to highlight:

Scroll Rack won't give you cards in hand from nothing
Scroll Rack doesn't pitch to Force of Will
Scroll Rack doesn't activate more than once in a turn
Scroll Rack doesn't work with a Null Rod on the table
Scroll Rack gets hit by the multitude of artifact hate in the environment
Scroll Rack is much less useful than Trade Routes without Tax in play

As far as Irridescent Angel, I've seen his metagame.  Chalk it up to a metagame choice, it's the right call.  Not to mention, one of these can block and survive my Phage.  Take a guess.

[Jacob Orlove]

I'm not sure if Mana Crypt is better than Mana Vault in every deck, but I think it might fit better here. Taking damage sometimes is usually worth the extra 4-8 mana. You don't really have any way to get rid of it, though, which could be a problem.

Actually, barring Vindicate, how do you hadle resolved artifacts or enchantments?


VGB: Propaganda is in the old list, not the current one.

[Razor]

Have you considered Rhystic Study?

[Robert the Swordsman]

Thanks for the quick responses. I'll adress the matters that have come up.

@VGB: Actually, the deck I played you with just happened to run four Vindicates, but was a completely different thing. Moving on...

Scroll Rack is absolutely NOT "strictly better" than Trade Routes! I'd list off the numerous reasons why, but Ben has kindly done so for me. Seriously, there is absolutely no reason to run Rack over Routes in the deck.

Morphling would be nice, however, as I've earlier stated, on occasions where it is not my turn (which occur quite often in Magic), it would not be well protected at all. I know, the excessive cost of Angel seems problematic, but it really is no trouble at all once the deck gets rolling. Besides this, here is my main concern: 'Phling, if caught off-guard, will be Swordsed. It can happen. However, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week (like, if you woke it up at 3:13 AM on a Tuesday), Angel can still NEVER be Swordsed. Ever. As I said, I would like to find an alternate kill, but so far, nothing has proven more effective, so I'll continue to wield it.

@Sausage: Thanks.

@Jacob Orlove: Mana Crypt is a very good idea... I'd welcome being able to untap it every turn, and I wouldn't be too worried about the damage (I could be wrong here). I will test it out, thank you.

Also, regarding resolved artifact and enchantments, yes, before my adding the Vindicate (thanks for the suggestion, Matt), I had absolutely no way of getting rid of any resolved non-creature permanents. Seeing as there were some very dangerous ones resolving at times, I thought it was a reasonable addition, and has proven extremely useful so far. Though, would Seal of Cleansing, or perhaps something else, be better in its place?

@Razor: Rhystic Study is an interesting card, but I find it a bit bulky (I'd probably play Mystic Remora over it). I'll stick with Trade Routes for now, but thank you for the suggestion.

Again, thank you for your responses and advice. Everything will be taken into consideration, and any more ideas and / or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

[VideoGameBoy]

I seem to remember seeing Land Tax in your deck.  How is 3-6 cards advantage every turn for a single mana not strictly better than sacrificing lands in play to draw a single card for 2 mana, or paying 3 for the same card advantage that isn't recoupable?

Null Rod is only played by Fish right now, and not even all builds.

Pitching to FoW is a horrible excuse to run a card over another.  Although running FoW often demands certain sacrifices in terms of deck construction, a good deck builder will still always use the best cards available.

The only real advantage I see of Trade Routes over Rack in this deck is that it isn't an immediate counterspell target.\n\n

[Sytupal]

Scroll Rack is usable ONCE in the duration of two turns.

Trade Routes is usable countless times throughout those two turns as long as the mana is there and also a constant search engine to dig for answers to threats.  

Depending on cards in hand, each one has it's ups and downs.  Scroll rack likes seeing cards in hand, but that's not always possible late game.  especially if scroll rack isn't down early.

[Robert the Swordsman]

Perhaps you aren't quite understanding how the engine works...

Land Tax - W - Enchantment

At the beginning of your upkeep, if an opponent controls more lands than you, you may search your library for up to three basic land cards and put them into your hand. If you do, shuffle your library.

Trade Routes - 1U - Enchantment

1: Return target land you control to its owner’s hand.
1, Discard a land card from your hand: Draw a card.

I am discarding lands from my hand to get cards (for 1 colorless), NOT using lands in play for that purpose, although I can if necessary.

Null Rod shuts me down anyway, it would only destroy me further if I were to run Rack.

The fact that a card can pitch to Force of Will is absolutely a good reason to run it. It's one of the reasons I still run Angel over Decree.

I hope this clarifies some points for you, VGB.

[rmn]

The problems with Trade Routes are that each land in your deck only draws you one card, and at a mana a piece.

Scroll Rack puts the land back in your deck so that you can search it out again.  If the game goes long enough, the Routes plan might fail as you have no lands left in your deck to search for (barring recursion, which you do have plenty of).  This will rarely be important, of course.

I would be more considering about the fact that Scroll Rack costs only one mana a turn.  When you have a Land Tax in play, this is huge, as you have to have less land than the opponent.

It may sound scrubbish, but I would try using 3 Routes and 1 Rack.  You may even find in testing that you like drawing the Rack better.

[xaos]

good game tonight, rob.(this is chet)

anyways, i understand what some ppl are saying... late game you do end up running out of lands for the tax, and yer deck really drops in speed at that point.  id suggest adding 2 scroll rack, not as yer primary draw engine, but something hot to draw into after it(or draw into the engine), keeping those few lands around in the deck, but not hosing yer next 3-4 draws(thanks to tax), and generally being uber.  maybe -1 twist -1 FoF?  tough to cut from the tight decklist.  also, what about enlightened tutor?  i know you have the white mana base to support it, and it fetches draw engine parts.  just wondering why you chose mystical, yet not that.

[Sytupal]

chet.... *smack*  enlightened is in the list... scroll up  

Now mystical is wonderful:

Vindicate
Mind Twist
Regrowth
Blessing
balance
swords
walk
twister
recall
FoF

etc,etc,etc.   If one would be chosen over the other mystical should be chosen.  Cus if you're REALLY desperate mystical for a demonic and then go for trade routes lol.  

Protecting the twister in huge is robs deck.  It works however and the lands DO come back.  The lands will come back mid/late game.  And in the extreme long game, oh look i'll regrowth or blesing it.   booya.

Synergy    

EDIT: grammatical mistake

[Robert the Swordsman]

Main reasons I run Routes over Rack (not including the ones presented by SummenSaugen):

-If I Rack into some more land, they are extremely dead cards until my next turn.

-By the time I've thinned out all of my lands, I've either gained control, accumulated enough card advantage to start taking control, or have enough search mechanisms to take over. If I do stall out for a period, I can usually either start taking lands from in play to draw cards, or just sit and wait with a Tangle Wire or a W'Orb until I can do something. Granted, this is not always the case; I could stall, wait it out, and never get what I need, but the deck usually pulls through, and even if that were the case, I'm not sure Rack could be of any more use than a Routes.

Also, regarding Mana Crypt...

..I played it in a very small tournament at my local shop (those were some good games, thanks, Chet) and the mana that Crypt could constantly produce was extremely useful, moreso, I believe, than a Vault ever could have been in those situations. However, not only once, but twice, I had to Vindicate it because it put me into lethal damage range. I'm not very experienced with the card as I've only used it a few times, but perhaps someone with more knowledge on the matter could tell me whether or not the risk of the damage is worth running the card.

The mana production was excellent and probably better than Vault, but the cost was painful.

EDIT: Ivory Towers can help me recover, though I see them much less now that I only run two, and also, they're meant for holding off an enemy's attacks, not for making up for self-inflicted damage; Crypt kinda' cancels out Tower when I need Tower to be gaining me life, unless it's one of those rare occasions in which Crypt doesn't deal me damage.

Thanks to all for suggestions, and any more such suggestions or comments would be appreciated.

Thank you.

[Kerzkid11]

Quote Also, regarding Mana Crypt...

..I played it in a very small tournament at my local shop (those were some good games, thanks, Chet) and the mana that Crypt could constantly produce was extremely useful, moreso, I believe, than a Vault ever could have been in those situations. However, not only once, but twice, I had to Vindicate it because it put me into lethal damage range. I'm not very experienced with the card as I've only used it a few times, but perhaps someone with more knowledge on the matter could tell me whether or not the risk of the damage is worth running the card.

The mana production was excellent, but the cost was painful.

Usually, the rule of thumb is that you can't play it in a control deck, because it will eventually kill you. In combo it's good because you'll win before it matters, and in Workshop it's also fine because you can sacrifice it to 'Stack. I wouldn't play it if I were you.

[Robert the Swordsman]

Yeah, after a lot more testing, it has proven a little too dangerous for such a slow deck.

However, the fact that it keeps untapping is enough to make me want to run something else over Mana Vault... do you think that adding a Ruby (off-color, in this case) over it would be more beneficial?

Any thoughts, questions, or comments would be appreciated.

Thank you very much.

[Binary]

Neither Mana Crypt nor Mana Vault appear necessary for this deck. You have no graceful way of getting rid of either, and untapping Mana Vault may get hard if you don't have out the Academy.  I'd replace Mana Vault with the fifth Mox if for no other reason that it untaps under WOrb.

And as silly as this may sound, I'd actually think about taking a look at Mox Diamond. Even though it's card disadvantage, the card you're giving up is a land (most likely a basic one). If you find yourself needed to get multiple colors "online" quickly, it may behoove you to pitch one of those basic lands you grabbed with Land Tax instead of waiting another turn, which may be too late.

[SummenSaugen]

Diamond is weird.  It has half good synergy with Routes, and half godawful synergy.  I'd say test them both.  In the end, they might both warrant slots.

[Cedric]

Aside from the winter orb, it seems like armageddon could have good synergy with your deck.  You can always return your lands to your hand with routes, and it would make your wires better since they would have less permanents.  The orbs may just be better, but still, its something you could keep in mind while you tweak.

[BuboniC]

I think the main thing Rob's deck needs working on is the kill. Irridescent Angel is good in our meta, and only ours. I have full out implored the use of Decree of Justice as new kill, but he says it needs to be blue to keep Force of Will stable, so why not go -2 Angel, +2 Decree, then -2 some other nonblue card- plus 2 blue ones? It's just sad to me that when I first started and about a year later Oddesey came out, I thought it was on the brink of brokeness in my dragon/angel deck   . I think Decree would be better- and this way me and John wouldnt laugh at you all the time- but you do get props for being "original" with the angel kill  .

[Lime]

Robert,

As a suggestion, I would recommend removing the green component, regrowth and blessing, to increase consistancy in the manabase and to use more synergetic cards.  Brainstorm is an appropriate replacement for the following reasons:

- Provides search for the combo components
- Has exceptional synergy with land tax
- On color and pitches to Force of Will

In efforts to include 4 Brainstom, it seems reasonable to cut 3 tangle wire in addition to the green.  Tangle Wire seems sub-optimal as the deck doesn't run many perminates.

- 1 regrowth
- 1 blessing
- 3 tangle wire

+ 4 brainstorm
+ 1 STP

[Crater Hellion]

not like we haven't talked about it a ton, but I think one masticore would be a good kill, and in the place of the second angel you could run another blue card. It really wouldn't be that hard to find room for one more blue card after that, which would keep you at the same (16? 14? Whichever it was) Blue level.

[Robert the Swordsman]

Thanks again for the responses.

@Binary and Summen: Mox Diamond is considerable, as that particular slot (Mana Vault) is still in question, however, due to the somewhat low land count, I'm worried about it being beneficial some of the time, but most often dead. I will test it out, though, thank you.

@Cedric: A while back, I was trying to fit in a 'Geddon, but I didn't really feel it necessary. Winter Orb and Tangle Wire are good enough land control for me, and if I truly need all of their lands gone, I can try to resolve a Balance.

@Bubonic: WHY is Angel "only good in our meta but no one else's"? I don't quite understand this statement, and I know we've been arguing about the kill mechanism for quite some time, but seriously, what does any other metagame have that can deal with it that ours doesn't? Also, it's just not as simple as "-2 Angel and -2 [non-blue cards], +2 Decree and +2 [blue cards]". I wish it were, but unfortunately, I'd have to put alot more thought into it than just that. I appreciate the comments though, thanks for the sticking with my deck.

@Lime: I've discussed Brainstorm with a few others (namely Crater Hellion), and I will admit that it is an awesome card, but I just don't think I need it; the deck seems to have a sufficient amount of card draw. Also, regarding Tangle Wire, this deck actually has a ridiculous amount of permanents (not quite sure if you missed them) and the card is truly awesome at this point. I appreciate the suggestions, though.

@Crater Hellion: Masticore gets Swordsed. Sorry, but that alone is reason enough for me to not want to run it.

I really am searching for another kill, and though I do appreciate the suggestions that people have offered, I still believe that the Angel is optimal unless I could find room for more blue cards.

Here are the requirements for a kill in this deck (not all have to be met, of course):

- is a blue card.
- can't be Swordsed and won't be killed by Abyss (i.e.: Pro-white / black, untargetable and so on).
- if it is easily destroyed, I can get it back easily. (i.e.: Gigapede, Undead Gladiator and so on).

Suggestions on this matter would be great.

Again, thanks for the responses, and any more ideas or comments would be awesome.

Thank you.