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Author Topic: Predator vs. Weatherlight  (Read 2695 times)
VGB
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« on: July 15, 2004, 01:53:17 pm »

Hey there people - I had an idea for a couple of decks over 2 years ago, where I made a couple of highlander decks featuring the Allies and Axis from the Weatherlight saga.

Here they are as they were originally listed:

//NAME: Odyssey of the Weatherlight
// CREATOR: V.G.B.
// CREATED: 4/11/2003 10:01:00 PM
// FORMAT: Classic
// Lands
        2 Flooded Strand
        3 Plateau
        4 Savannah
        4 Taiga
        4 Tropical Island
        4 Tundra
        1 Undiscovered Paradise
        2 Wooded Foothills
// Creatures
        1 Atalya, Samite Master
        1 Birds of Paradise
        1 Captain Sisay
        1 Gerrard Capashen
        1 Hanna, Ship's Navigator
        1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
        1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
        1 Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
        1 Karn, Silver Golem
        1 Barrin, Master Wizard
        1 Ertai, Wizard Adept
        1 Mirri, Cat Warrior
        1 Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
        1 Orim, Samite Healer
// Enchantments
        1 Rancor
        1 Spirit Link
        1 Arcane Laboratory
        1 Oath of Druids
        1 Seal of Cleansing
        1 Seal of Fire
        1 Second Chance
        1 Teferi's Moat
// Spells
        1 Dismantling Blow
        1 Eladamri's Call
        1 Fact or Fiction
        1 Opt
        1 Swords to Plowshares
        1 Tithe
        1 Urza's Rage
        1 Forbid
        1 Gaea's Blessing
        1 Ghitu Fire
        1 Hull Breach
// Artifacts
        1 Lotus Petal
        1 Legacy Weapon
        1 Skyship Weatherlight

//NAME: Minions of the Predator
// CREATOR: V.G.B.
// CREATED: 4/11/2003 9:28:00 PM
// FORMAT: Classic
// Lands
        2 Badlands
        2 Bayou
        1 Bazaar of Baghdad
        2 Bloodstained Mire
        1 City of Brass
        1 Crosis's Catacombs
        1 Darigaaz's Caldera
        1 Maze of Ith
        2 Polluted Delta
        1 Reflecting Pool
        2 Scrubland
        1 Swamp
        1 Swamp
        1 Swamp
        1 Swamp
        2 Underground Sea
        1 Wasteland
        1 Volrath's Stronghold
// Creatures
        1 Ascendant Evincar
        1 Ertai, the Corrupted
        1 Tsabo Tavoc
        1 Volrath the Fallen
        1 Coffin Queen
        1 Crovax the Cursed
        1 Minion of the Wastes
        1 Priest of Gix
        1 Selenia, Dark Angel
        1 Skirge Familiar
        1 Sliver Queen
        1 Spirit of the Night
        1 Vhati il-Dal
        1 Volrath's Shapeshifter
// Enchantments
        1 Sleeper's Guile
        1 Pernicious Deed
        1 Phyrexian Arena
        1 Recurring Nightmare
        1 Survival of the Fittest
        1 Unnatural Selection
        1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
// Spells
        1 Diabolic Edict
        1 Terminate
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        1 Dark Ritual
        1 Buried Alive
        1 Drain Life
        1 Exhume
        1 Living Death
        1 Reanimate
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
// Artifacts
        1 Claws of Gix
        1 Jet Medallion
        1 Phyrexian Processor
        1 Planar Portal
        1 Predator, Flagship

My aim was to make a pair of unpowered decks featuring only cards from Mirage through Apocalypse (fetchies and duals are just too crucial to keep the mana smooth, though, and some other stray cards were selected for fun factor) that were evenly balanced and chock full of the flavor of the Weatherlight saga.

My proposal to my fellow TMD'ers is:

1) Help me look for synergies and flavor I may have missed.
2) Have fun looking for synergies and flavor I didn't miss Smile
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Machinus
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« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2004, 04:55:20 pm »

I always wondered about how I would build weatherlight.dec but I never thought about building the predator one. The good guys seemed to have a tactical advantage in the cards, despite Gerrard Capashen being the crappiest card I've ever seen. Good work on these though, maybe you could get a partner and play a couple of games with these, and tell us how it goes. I can see that being more entertaining than actually reading about the characters.

[EDIT: I think it would be ok to expand the range of your sets, as long as you don't include cards that are TOO broken (cough bargain cough). I also think it would be a good idea to go highlander on the manabase, which could be feasible if you include more sets.]
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« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2004, 06:28:58 pm »

You're missing the Blind Seer in the Weatherlight deck.  I'd be loath to leave out Urza (albeit incognito) when throwing together a deck of that theme. Smile

Starke of Rath is notably absent as well.  Despite his earlier role in the story, he would probably be thrown in the Weatherlight deck as well.
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Curious Count Spatula
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« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2004, 06:33:55 pm »

I'd move Crovax the Cursed to the Weatherlight because that card portrays him while he was still with Gerrard and crew. Ascendant Evincar is Crovax as a big baddy, and he's already joined the Predator. And there shouldn't be a problem with character overlap, seeing as how Ertai is represented twice.
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VGB
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« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2004, 09:53:10 am »

Quote from: Machinus
I always wondered about how I would build weatherlight.dec but I never thought about building the predator one. The good guys seemed to have a tactical advantage in the cards, despite Gerrard Capashen being the crappiest card I've ever seen. Good work on these though, maybe you could get a partner and play a couple of games with these, and tell us how it goes. I can see that being more entertaining than actually reading about the characters.


Gerrard isn't that bad, as free life gain in this matchup is quite handy.  Remember, these decks are meant to be pitted solely against each other, and the kills are generally methodical and life-oriented.

Quote from: Machinus
[EDIT: I think it would be ok to expand the range of your sets, as long as you don't include cards that are TOO broken (cough bargain cough). I also think it would be a good idea to go highlander on the manabase, which could be feasible if you include more sets.]


I thought about expanding the set range, but that starts getting very messy in terms of balancing the decks' power levels - lands are usually flavorless, which is why I don't feel guilty including the Onslaught fetchlands or Duals - and other random cards were pulled from early sets due to overall synergy.  Bargain really ins't that overpowered in the Predator deck, as there really isn't much in terms of life gain (Claws is about it), and it has to be hardcast in order to hit play - and the Weatherlight deck has counter capability.  Bargain can be a fun card when not abused, and let's face it, we need a picture of Yawgmoth in the deck somewhere  Twisted Evil

Going highlander on the manabase is a definite possibility Smile.  Something like that should be saved for when utility card selection is completed, though.

The Weatherlight deck was built to have a lot of power that builds steadily and consistently (sort of like the light side of the force), whereas the Predator deck is a lot more chaotic in terms of performance, but it has a lot of potential to do some really broken stuff (sort of like the dark side of the force).

Quote from: Swanky
You're missing the Blind Seer in the Weatherlight deck.  I'd be loath to leave out Urza (albeit incognito) when throwing together a deck of that theme. Smile


I did indeed think about including Blind Seer, but not only does it not have very much synergy with the deck - although he could provide protection from Sleeper's Guile - I thought the inclusion of Urza's Rage gives him some recognition as well as it serving a useful spot removal and direct damage function.  Urza is also a planeswalker to boot - and Wizards has a policy against printing planeswalkers as cards - which is why they didn't name the card flat out Urza.  My goal, in any case, isn't to have highlander decks that must feature every legend from Weatherlight, but to make a couple of playable and fun decks to pit against each other while allowing for nostalgia about an erstwhile Magic storyline.

Speaking of Sleeper's Guile, I'm thinking about replacing it with Unmask - which plays into the reanimation capability of the Predator deck (besides the fact it has my most favoritest are evar Smile).  Sleeper's guile was just Ertai fodder, anyways - but Processor can serve the same function.

Quote from: Swanky
Starke of Rath is notably absent as well.  Despite his earlier role in the story, he would probably be thrown in the Weatherlight deck as well.


Starke simply isn't very much fun to play - the side-swapping isn't the issue, but rampant permanent destruction just doesn't fit into the flavor of the decks as he can flat out kill anything except Tsabo (including the Legacy Weapon, which is just nuts).  I wouldn't mind finding some other way of including some Starke flavor, though - which is another reason I would like to put Unmask in, since it shows Volrath masquerading as Takara, Starke's daughter.

Quote from: Curious Count Spatula
I'd move Crovax the Cursed to the Weatherlight because that card portrays him while he was still with Gerrard and crew. Ascendant Evincar is Crovax as a big baddy, and he's already joined the Predator. And there shouldn't be a problem with character overlap, seeing as how Ertai is represented twice.


Crovax the Cursed could probably be cut entirely - the Weatherlight deck was constructed specifically to not support black (the exceptions being Birds and Petal to allow for Legacy Weapon usage), and the only way to fit the card in was to put it in the Predator deck - which is where his eventual alliance aligned with anyways.
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AngryPheldagrif
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« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2004, 07:25:53 pm »

For the sake of accuracy, you're missing most of the Legacy!

You need (this is just off the top of my head):

Quote
Skyshaper
Juju Bubble
5 Bones of Ramos
Power Matrix
Thran Tome
Touchstone
Thran Forge


Surely you can find something there you can use Smile .

Also, Atalya and Barrin had nothing to do with the Weatherlight.

As for the Predator, not only do a sizable portion of the character cards you chose have nothing to do with it, but WHERE THE HELL IS GREVEN IL-VEC. He's the freaking captain! You also need some Mogg goblins, which made up the majority of the crew. Think about some Flunkies or Conscripts. You also need Mogg Cannon, which was a weapon on it.

That's all I could think of at the moment. Good luck with it!

-Dan
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VGB
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« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2004, 10:09:06 pm »

Quote from: AngryPheldagrif
For the sake of accuracy, you're missing most of the Legacy!

You need (this is just off the top of my head):

Skyshaper
Juju Bubble
5 Bones of Ramos
Power Matrix
Thran Tome
Touchstone
Thran Forge


Well, if I wanted to stick balls to the wall to the story, then I guess those would have to go in, except those cards generally suck hairy lamb-fries.  The point of these decks more than anything is fun factor, and playing with crappy cards isn't much fun.



Quote from: AngryPheldagrif
Also, Atalya and Barrin had nothing to do with the Weatherlight.


Neither do Spirit Link and Birds of Paradise  Wink .  The deck really doesn't need them, I guess, but I built these decks two years ago, and there was some reason I put them in, I just can't for the life of me remember what that was  Embarassed .  I know Barrin has ties to Ertai, and Atalya, well, she's just hot Smile.  Gotta love Guay art.

Quote from: AngryPheldagrif
As for the Predator, not only do a sizable portion of the character cards you chose have nothing to do with it, but WHERE THE HELL IS GREVEN IL-VEC. He's the freaking captain! You also need some Mogg goblins, which made up the majority of the crew. Think about some Flunkies or Conscripts. You also need Mogg Cannon, which was a weapon on it.

That's all I could think of at the moment. Good luck with it!

-Dan


Greven as a card sucks (the sacrifice drawback is pretty steep against a deck with removal), which is why I left it out specifically - but his face does pop up on Diabolic Edict, even if really teeny-tiny though.

Hatred might be cool, though, now that I think of it - but then again, it might be a little overpowered.  There's no mistaking the card has flavor, though.

As for the Mogg stuff, I don't beleive it adds enough synergy - but it is indeed something to consider.
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VGB
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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2004, 01:57:40 pm »

//NAME: Minions of the Predator
// CREATOR: V.G.B.
// CREATED: 7/19/2004 10:50:00 PM
// FORMAT: Classic
// Lands
        4 Swamp
        2 Badlands
        2 Bayou
        1 Bazaar of Baghdad
        2 Bloodstained Mire
        1 City of Brass
        1 Forsaken City
        1 Gemstone Mine

        1 Maze of Ith
        2 Polluted Delta
        1 Reflecting Pool
        2 Scrubland
        2 Underground Sea
        1 Wasteland
        1 Volrath's Stronghold
// Creatures
        1 Apprentice Necromancer
        1 Ascendant Evincar
        1 Ertai, the Corrupted
        1 Tsabo Tavoc
        1 Volrath the Fallen
        1 Coffin Queen
        1 Commander Greven il-Vec
        1 Minion of the Wastes
        1 Priest of Gix
        1 Selenia, Dark Angel
        1 Skirge Familiar
        1 Sliver Queen
        1 Vhati il-Dal
        1 Volrath's Shapeshifter
// Enchantments
        1 Necromancy
        1 Pernicious Deed
        1 Phyrexian Arena
        1 Recurring Nightmare
        1 Survival of the Fittest
        1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
// Spells
        1 Corpse Dance
        1 Dark Ritual
        1 Diabolic Edict
        1 Terminate
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        1 Whispers of the Muse
        1 Buried Alive
        1 Exhume
        1 Living Death
        1 Reanimate
        1 Unmask
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
// Artifacts
        1 Claws of Gix
        1 Jet Medallion
        1 Phyrexian Processor
        1 Predator, Flagship

Cards differing from the first list are in bold.

I took out Crovax, the Cursed simply because the cost to make him a workable card was too great - and as pointed out, he's really a Weatherlight figure.  I thought the deck could use a little more draw, though, so I put in Whispers of the Muse - I can't seem to get rid of the guy  Wink (though this card should probably go in the Weatherlight deck also  Confused ).  Greven went in, as his drawback isn't nearly as bad as Crovax's, after all - but he's still an iffy reanimation target.  Seeing as how only Karn can block him, he is a decent win condition in himself, though.  Spirit of the Night was just extraneous, and was replaced with Apprentice Necromancer to help smooth the mana curve and provide more reanimation capability.
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