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« on: January 19, 2004, 06:57:33 pm » |
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Sorry I don't have a better name yet. This deck is an evolution of the UrPhid deck that I posted just after GenCon. I stopped working on this deck after Keeper got better with its new toys from Mirrodin, but now I have come back to this. As you will see, it no longer has Ophidians, but more on that later.
Just a reminder from last time. This deck is a deck that attempts to fight the early game with counters, drop a bomb stalling for time, then win as soon as possible with a creature while the opponent is scrambling to answer the bomb. An ideal play would be, for example, a first turn Mana Leak, second turn Mana Drain into Blood Moon, next turn clock with a creature.
This deck is built around three bombs that, on their own, cut off a number of options for your opponent and allow you to control the game. When used together, they only become stronger. The first bomb is Blood Moon. This, of course, shuts down most of the mana of multicolor decks. Less mana means less options. The second bomb is Chalice of the Void. The primary goal is to set the Chalice of the Void for 1. This can cut off upwards of one-third of the spells of an opponents decks. Less playable spells means less options. The third bomb is Damping Matrix. This is great for shutting off creature abilities and many artifact abilities. Null Rod may be better especially with Blood Moon, but the ability to neuter a Welder with the same cards is very attractive. Less creature/artifact utility means less options. Once you limit enough options of your opponent, you can take advantage by placing a clock and watching to see if he/she can find an answer in time.
Here is the decklist and some thought behind some of the selections and omissions. Let me know what you think.
Decklist
Mana 4 Volcanic Island 2 Shivan Reef 7 Island 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Pearl 1 Black Lotus 1 Sol Ring 1 Strip Mine 4 Wasteland
Counters 4 Force of Will 4 Mana Drain 4 Mana Leak 2 Daze
Stall 3 Blood Moon 3 Damping Matrix 3 Chalice of the Void 3 Fire/Ice 2 Starstorm
Win 4 Serendib Efreet
The Rest 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Time Walk 2 Impulse
Sideboard 3 Flametongue Kavu 2 Gorilla Shaman 2 Shattering Pulse 2 Rack and Ruin 3 Tormod's Crypt 2 Misdirection
Ophidian - Card advantage is good, but dropping one of the bombs is better. Usually it a bomb on its own will buy enough time to win the game. This deck doesn't want to gain card advantage and end up countering everything the way that traditional Ophidian decks tried to do. In effect, COTV1 and Damping Matrix proactively counters a significant number of opponents cards.
Serendib Efreet - Damping Matrix shuts down both Morphling and Masticores which used to be in the earlier version of the deck. This is probably the next best option. It's also really hard to get rid of if a COTV1 resolves.
Gorilla Shaman - Mox Monkey is really good and works well with Blood Moon to get rid those moxes to completely hose mana production. Unfortunately, they don't work well with Damping Matrix or COTV1 (Chalice of the Void set at 1). Therefore, they are in the sideboard when COTV gets sided out against Workshop decks that use COTV (because COTV2 really hurts this deck).
Fetchlands and Brainstorm - These two usually go together. A deck without fetchlands probably doesn't want Brainstorms. Shivan Reefs give me the colors I want anyways and gives me more real mana sources. Also, there are so many Stifles and Wasteland around lately that more real mana is needed.
Mox Emerald - This omission is only because I don't own one. It's tough to say what I would drop if I had one because it would not be an Island.
Stifle - This was originally in the deck to go along with the mana denial to cut off fetchlands. However, I wanted to decrease the number of dead spells with COTV1 and instead went with Daze. Daze is an additional early counterspell to join Mana Leak and Force of Will.
Cunning Wish - Red and Blue have few answers. Post-sideboard, rendundant removal is sided in anyways.
Red Elemental Blast - Once against COTV1 was a priority. This is useful against control decks, but I wanted to be aggressor by dropping bombs early.
Impulse - At first, instead of Impulses, I had Slith Firewalkers. However, I figured that the necessity to get the bombs quicker was more important than dropping a creature that isn't that good except when you are in complete control.
Future Sight, Braingeyser, etc. - There is no Future Sight, Braingeyser, etc. because I don't want to get to that point in the game without being in control.
Library of Alexandria - I mentioned this last time, but I really need the blue mana early and late game I should already be in control.
Matchups
This is by no means a complete list and possibly not entirely accurate. This is an excerise for myself that I decided to post as well. It shows how effective the bombs are against some of the more common matchups and to give an idea what to side out and what to side in.
Keeper
Blood Moon - Fetchlands, Strip/Waste, Underground, Volcanic, Tundra Damping Matrix - Shaman COTV1 - Shaman, Swords, Ancestral, Mystical, Vampiric, Brainstorm, REB, BEB, Stifle
The priorities include COTV1, Blood Moon, then COTV0 (to cut off Mox Sapphire and Mox Pearl). Damping Matrix is not good in this matchup except against versions using Isochron Scepter. Side in extra counterspells in Misdirections and then Gorilla Shamans. Starstorms and Fire/Ice are moderately useful against Decree of Justice tokens or a Shaman although a couple can be sided out if necessary.
-3 Damping Matrix -1 Starstorm +2 Misdirection +2 Gorilla Shaman
Hulk
Blood Moon - Fetchlands, Strip/Waste, Underground, Volcanic, Tropical Damping Matrix - Tog, Shaman COTV1 - Duress, Stifle, Mystical, Ancestral, Berserk, Shaman, REB
-3 Damping Matrix, -2 Starstorm, +2 Misdirection, +3 Tormod's Crypt
This matchup is pretty much the same as Keeper. Damping Matrix is again not ideal, as you want to control the matchup before the Tog even hits the table. Starstorms are not necessary.
Dragon
Blood Moon - Bazaar, Fetchlands, Underground, Tropical Damping Matrix - Laquatus COTV1 - Swarm, Duress, Stifle
-3 Damping Matrix, +3 Tormod's Crypt
COTV1 is important here as it stops the disruption in Swarms, Duress, and Stifles. It's important to answer Stifles if you want to be able to Crypt effectively. Blood Moon slows it down a little. Damping Matrix stops Laquatus, but the Verdant Force is a tough backup to handle, so it's too late to rely on this to stop the combo.
Long
Blood Moon - Everything Damping Matrix - N/A COTV1 - Everything
COTV1 and Blood Moon should pretty much wrap everything up. Since not much else is useful for Damping Matrix, maybe Tormod's Crypt can come in.
Slavery
Blood Moon - ? Damping Matrix - Welder, Mindslaver, Pentavus COTV1 - Welder, REB?
-2 Starstorm, +2 Shattering Pulse, -2 Blood Moon (?), +2 Rack and Ruin
I admit not knowing this matchup too well, but Damping Matrix should really hurt this combo. Blood Moon also hurts until they get the Gilded Lotus. Artifact removal can come in for otherwise useless cards.
Stax (U/R)
Blood Moon - Workshop, Academy, Tomb, Fetchlands Damping Matrix - Wlder, Karn, Memory Jar COTV1 - Welder, Ancestral, REB
-3 COTV, -1 Blood Moon, +2 Rack and Ruin, +2 Shattering Pulse
MUD
Blood Moon - Workshop, Traitors, Academy, Strip/Waste Damping Matrix - Trisk, Karn, Welder, Shaman, Memory Jar, Metalworker COTV1 - Welder, Shaman
-3 COTV, -1 Blood Moon, +2 Rack and Ruin, +2 Shattering Pulse
TnT
Blood Moon - Workshop, Fetchland Damping Matrix - Welder, Memory Jar, Trisk/Karn (if still used) COTV1 - Welder
-3 COTV, +3 Flametongue, -1 Blood Moon, -3 Damping Matrix, +2 Shattering Pulse, +2 Rack and Ruin
Flametongues are huge in this matchup as they typically trade 2:1 against TNTs fatties.
Madness
Blood Moon - Bazaar, Fetchland, Taiga, Tropical Damping Matrix - Mongrel, Rootwalla COTV1 - Ancestral, Rootwalla, REB
-3 COTV, +3 Flametongue
Once again, Flametongues against aggro to trade 2:1.
Suicide Black
Blood Moon - Strip/Waste, Factory, Fetchlands (if splashing) Damping Matrix - Shade, Keg COTV1 - Duress, Dark Ritual
-3 COTV, +3 Flametongue, (+Misdirection if Hymns and Sinkholes)
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RoadTrippin
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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2004, 07:18:02 pm » |
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First things first. In your list, might Flametongue Kavu be worth maindecking? You obviously lack the card advantage fueling capabilities of other control decks in the form of drawing, so why not go all out and use more 2-for-1's? I really like Starstorm as it covers 2 aspects of the deck rather nicely, as can Fire/Ice. However, there's an awful lot of card/board position DISadvantage in the FoW and Dazes. You obviously don't want to cut Force, but I am a little skeptical about Daze. I guess I can feel the thought process of the no fetches or Brainstorms, but it doesn't seem like very sound logic to me.
Finally, in the Dragon matchup I would much rather cut 2 Starstorm and 1 Damping Matrix than all 3 Damping Matrix.
Good luck with the deck as it can definitely prove itself as a sound and viable concept once a barebones list is hammered out.[/u]
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Jakedasnake
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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2004, 07:41:47 pm » |
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I really like the thought behind this deck. However, some things are just out of place:
2 Daze: You already run 12 counters, which seems like plenty to allow you to drop a bomb.
Your stall pieces are fine and all, but why not run 4 Blood Moon, 4 Chalice, and 2 Damping Matrix? Chalice has awesome synergy with the deck, when set for one. Blood Moon is the ultimate land hoser, and it barely effects you.
There aren't that many big creatures in Type 1, so I don't know how effective Starstorm is. Sure, you can get rid of cycled Decree of Justice tokens, but if the opponent has played that already, I think the game is over.
I'd up the Fire/Ice count to 4, dropping the Starstorms.
If I counted correctly, you still have 2 open slots. Your deck is severly lacking in the card drawing compartment. How about Fact or Fiction? The 3U makes it castable under a Blood Moon.
I also am unsure about Sol Ring. There aren't many cards that you need to power out ASAP, even Blood Moon. Like you said, you want to counter their early threats then drop your 'bombs'. Sol Ring just doesn't need to fuel any cards with a large colorless casting cost.
The Gorilla Shaman's seem like maindeck cards to me, now that you've gotten rid of Starstorm (actually, IF you get rid of Starstorm). Having moxen on the table definitely allows the opponent to fight out of a Blood Moon lock.
Take this advice with a grain of salt, because I'm not experienced with Ur Phid, or any of it's incarnations.
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"Benjamin Franklin was a founding father. He fatherly founded that lightning was made of electricity. Electricity in the sky."-Jeremy Lavine
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« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2004, 11:31:55 am » |
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In your list, might Flametongue Kavu be worth maindecking? Flametongue Kavu is great against aggro decks, but near useless against control and combo decks. Therefore, I don't think that it should be maindeck. 2 Daze: You already run 12 counters, which seems like plenty to allow you to drop a bomb. The thing with Daze is that you can still counter when trying to drop an early bomb. If bouncing an Island is what it takes to resolve a Blood Moon turn two, the tempo loss isn't so bad. Finally, in the Dragon matchup I would much rather cut 2 Starstorm and 1 Damping Matrix than all 3 Damping Matrix. This is probably true. The sideboarding strategy is just a quick list that I created to determine how effective the bombs were. The Gorilla Shaman's seem like maindeck cards to me. The problem is that Shamans don't work well when you are trying to resolve both a Damping Matrix and a Chalice of the Void for 1. When at least one of them is sided out, the Shamans can come in. I also am unsure about Sol Ring. It's quite possible that Chalice of the Void for 1 is more important to resolve than Blood Moon. Sol Ring can let you cast it first turn and Daze let's you have counter backup. There aren't that many big creatures in Type 1, so I don't know how effective Starstorm is. The main reason for this card is the X to hit all creatures without targeting them directly, plus it also cycles away. I'm more concerned about creature rushes and Lightning Greaves on a Welder (although I don't know if any decks are even using these yet). Your stall pieces are fine and all, but why not run 4 Blood Moon, 4 Chalice, and 2 Damping Matrix? They are not that good in multiples. That's why I chose to run Impulses instead of these, in order to get a missing bomb or a creature to start a clock. How about Fact or Fiction? Fact or Fiction is bad in UrPhid because the deck is so redundant. Impulse is just better because it's cheaper to cast.
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rozetta
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« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2004, 05:15:58 am » |
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How does this fare against Mask-Naught game one? I know damping matrix shuts down the mask itself, but with the speed and amount of discard they run, I'd expect at least the first naught to enter play a decent amount of the time.
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Vote Zherbus for 2005 Invitational. - Team Secrecy -
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« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2004, 11:24:57 am » |
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How does this fare against Mask-Naught game one? Mask is definitely difficult as with many other game one matchups when you are going second as you can only rely on Force of Will that first turn. If you are going first, you can additionally lean on Mana Leak, Daze, and Mana Drain (if you have the Sapphire). Chalice of the Void for 1 is not a bad play as it stops Duress, Ritual, Vamp, and Spoils. Luckily, game 2, I would probably side out Blood Moon and a Starstorm for the Shattering Pulses and Rack and Ruins.
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Raven Fire
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« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2004, 12:14:47 pm » |
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I'd replace the Shivan Reefs with a 2 or 3 fetch-lands. These will let you get the Volcanic Islands which have better synergy with Daze.
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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2004, 01:28:49 pm » |
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I'd replace the Shivan Reefs with a 2 or 3 fetch-lands. I already mentioned why I don't run fetchlands. It's important to keep up the number of actual mana-producing lands when facing so many Strips/Wastes/Stifles around. I ran fetchlands before, but I found myself cut off from red mana too often.
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Methuselahn
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« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2004, 03:00:29 pm » |
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I'm sorry, but this really looks like a blue hate deck with counters instead of hymns or such. I would really like to hear as to why you think your version is superior to a 'standard' blue deck that uses card drawing creatures such as 'Phid, tougher creatures such as Morphling, and the ever popular Cunning Wish silver bullet system. Your deck has very few actual threats and is loaded with counterspells, hate, and dead cards in certain matchups. The Efreets that you employ generally fit into a fast tempo deck. In general, they are just too vulnerable to be your sole win condition. The following quote just doesn't make sense to me: Ophidian - Card advantage is good, but dropping one of the bombs is better. Usually it a bomb on its own will buy enough time to win the game. This deck doesn't want to gain card advantage and end up countering everything the way that traditional Ophidian decks tried to do. In effect, COTV1 and Damping Matrix proactively counters a significant number of opponents cards. Dropping a proactive blind bomb to stall your opponent out long enough for the Serendib to do it's thing seems like that is what a blue deck does NOT want to do. I've never been impressed with 'proactive measures' in a reactive deck. You either end up hurting your own build or not affecting your opponent enough. What became of Chalice Keeper, for example? Whatever happened to blue decks taking control of the game and casually dropping a Morphling for victory?!? I don't know, besides all of my above comments, Chalice, Blood Moon, and Damping Matrix are all real meta-game dependant, and none are all that strong vs your worst matchup....aggro.
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« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2004, 04:33:05 pm » |
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...this really looks like a blue hate deck with counters... Actually, that is precisely what this deck is. It's a hate deck hating the top decks in the metagame and therefore very much intended for a high-powered metagame. I would really like to hear as to why you think your version is superior to a 'standard' blue deck Let me first explain why it is not a standard blue deck. The goal is not to outcounter your opponent. If anything, treat this deck like you would a mono-black deck. Instead of disruption in the form of Hymns and Sinkholes, the goal is to disrupt in the form of Blood Moon, COTV, or Damping Matrix. My disruption is slower than the mono-black disruption so I use countermagic to buy me time to drop it. I am also able to use the jewelry and Mana Drain to get me quicker to that goal. Unlike mono-black disruption, my disruption hits harder and longer. While I don't have the number of creatures that mono-black does, I have a bit longer to try to find them because of the quality of the bombs. Therefore, this is not a reactive control deck (except for the first few turns) in the traditional sense. ...none are all that strong vs your worst matchup....aggro 3 Fire/Ice and 2 Starstorm are there for aggro game 1 in addition to countermagic. It's true that this deck is more effective against combo and control game one, but isn't that where the metagame is right now? Aggro can still be a bit of a problem the first game, but the Flametongue should really turn the next games in your favor.
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DavidHernandez
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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2004, 05:46:38 pm » |
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Your list is very similar to (or at least has the same feel as) the UrPhid deck that took 2nd at Duelmen on Jan 11 2004. As such, you might consider getting 2 or 3 Isochron Scepters in it, since that was the finishing touch for the UrPhid build. I would suggest dropping the 3 Chalice of the Void (you're probably going to hurt yourself more than anyone else) in favor of 3 Scepters, and then drop the Dazes for 2 Stifles. Starstorm is interesting, but you might be better off with 2 Maindeck Cunning Wish, and then put a 4th Fire/Ice in the sideboard. I think these changes would make the deck stronger without losing it's identity. oh, btw, you will probably have to re-think the Damping Matrix' if you decide on Scepters...  FYI/Reference: 4 Force of Will 4 Mana Drain 4 Mana Leak 1 Ancestral Recall 2 Brainstorm 1 Fact or Fiction 1 Merchant Scroll 1 Stifle 1 Time Walk 1 Shoreline Ranger 2 Morphling 4 Ophidian 3 Fire/Ice 2 Blood Moon 1 Gorilla Shaman 3 Isochron Scepter Lands: 5 Island 4 Volcanic Island 3 Flooded Strand 2 Polluted Delta 1 Library of Alexandria 1 Strip Mine 1 Wasteland 1 Tolarian Academy 1 Black Lotus 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Sol Ring Sideboard: 2 Blood Moon 2 Flametongue Kavu 1 Hurkyl's Recall 1 Rack and Ruin 2 Red Elemental Blast 1 Shattering Pulse 3 Stifle 3 Tormod's Crypt --dave
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I will find a way -- or make one. Check out my wife! www.DanceKitten.comTeam GRO- Ours are bigger than yours. Card Carrying Member: Team Mindtrick Best.Fortune.Cookie.Ever: "Among the lucky, you are the chosen one."
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« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2004, 11:41:53 am » |
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Apparantly, I haven't sold anybody on the idea that this deck does not need Ophidians. Therefore, I will give it another shot. I am referencing the Monoblue primer by Steve Menendian found in the primers section at this site. Although it's a little old, it describes a traditional Ophidan playstyle perfectly. OPHIDIAN
This card is the heart of the deck and its primary drawing engine. You want to get a Phid into play as soon as possible and then protect the Hell out of it. Phid serves many functions for this deck. The toughness of three is absolutely amazing. It survives combat with the plethora of 2/1s that seemingly exist in T1. It is a must-kill creature for any Sligh or G/R deck, which means that your Misdirections will become quite usable despite an opponent's attempts to play around them. This creature is your drawing engine and an excellent blocker. This is one of the better T1 creatures in existence. and However, it is important to realize that it is OK to sacrifice one of the goals of this deck: being able to counter as many spell as possible each turn if you can sneak a very early Phid into play. The goal really is to get to four-five mana sources and then stop drawing mana until you can establish control. If you continue to draw mana sources, you will not be able to answer one-for-one the threats that your opponent plays. What I get from this is that Ophidian is the key to the deck. You use the card advantage gained from the Ophidian to answer threats one-for-one. However, let's say instead of Ophidian, you cast Chalice of the Void for 1 against Keeper. Suddenly, you have preemptively countered 2 Gorilla Shaman, 2 Swords to Plowshares, 1 Ancestral Recal, 1 Mystical Tutor, 1 Vampiric Tutor, 4 Brainstorm, 4 Red Elemental Blast, 1 Blue Elemental Blast, and 2 Stifle. Now you've answered threats 18:1 with just the Chalice of the Void. Also, a Blood Moon means the only way out is Cunning Wish for Blue Elemental Blast or Disenchant (if a Chalice of the Void for 1 is out). That leaves only one-must counter spell in the deck. Of course, it's an ideal situation when you can resolve both a Chalice of the Void and a Blood Moon. Another thing that I want to mention is what happened when I used to run Ophidians. I would have a Blood Moon lock with an Ophidian in play and would have to dig one card at a time to try to find the Morphlings. Impulse in this case is better as it allows to dig four cards at a time. you might be better off with 2 Maindeck Cunning Wish I'll response to this with a quote from the monoblue primer. In an incredibly redundant deck like Mono Blue - which lacks a range of answers to aggro such as STP, Cunning Wish is too often too slow and the answers (a term I use loosely here) it fetches are often too slow. I would suggest dropping the 3 Chalice of the Void (you're probably going to hurt yourself more than anyone else)... The number of spells that I can't cast with a Chalice of the Void for 1: 1 Ancestral Recall and 1 Sol Ring for a total of two spells compared to 18 that I identified earlier with Keeper. My only goal is Chalice of the Void for 1 and maybe for 0 afterwards because I know a Chalice of the Void for 2 is big trouble for me. you will probably have to re-think the Damping Matrix' if you decide on Scepters I guess the question is what is more important in the deck. I think that Damping Matrix can hurt my opponent more than Scepter can help me.
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Methuselahn
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« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2004, 01:16:57 pm » |
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Ok, so the goal of this deck is to disrupt with early counters, (not really the best way to disrupt your opponent, in my opinion.) drop a hate bomb, and then attack with Serendib.
The difference between controlling the game with hate permanents and raw counters fed by 'Phid is that hate is not absolute. Hate permanents may make many of your opponents' cards dead, but as you should know, there are countless ways to workaround hate. Blood Moon, Matrix, and Chalice=1 will stifle your opponent for only so long. This form of disruption, that you have to tap out to cast during your turn leaves you vulnerable and your counters dead in hand for the meantime.
Now, I could see how your hate could disrupt long enough to kill, provided you have enough threats. But you don't. Look at what makes suicide function. It's spells are half disruption and half threats (creatures). It is able to put pressure on the opponent right now. With only 1 ancestral, 2 impulses, and 2 cycling starstorms, you just don't have enough digging to find the 4 creatures in your deck.
Besides all of this, I find the brainstorm/fetchland argument to be flawed. These 2 are the first cards you should be putting into any blue deck. Why wouldn't you want to Brainstorm->Fetch to get rid of redundant hate perms anyway??
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kirdape3
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« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2004, 02:02:11 pm » |
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There are a bunch of big blue flying things that work better. Waterspout Djinn doesn't kill you against aggro decks that nibble at your life total, is a five as opposed to seven turn clock, and the drawback is perfectly manageable. Mahamoti Djinn is a four turn clock with no drawback at all - sounds good to me! Plus you can simply Stroke them out or Fireball them or something.
I do not however see you doing much more than annoying a deck like TnT where they can just cast Survival and now overwhelm you with 5/3s and 4/4s.
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WRONG! CONAN, WHAT IS BEST IN LIFE?!
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women.
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« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2004, 05:56:42 pm » |
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Ok, so the goal of this deck is to disrupt with early counters Not quite. The disruption is in COTV, Blood Moon, Damping Matrix. The counters are to make sure they get into play and trade counters early until it hits play. This form of disruption, that you have to tap out to cast during your turn leaves you vulnerable and your counters dead in hand for the meantime. For the same reason that you don't play an Ophidian without counter backup, you don't play these spells without counter backup. Daze is a counterspell that allows you to tap out and still counter. Blood Moon, Matrix, and Chalice=1 will stifle your opponent for only so long. This is true. That is why it's important to take advantage quickly. Look at what makes suicide function. It's spells are half disruption and half threats (creatures). Let me get back to you on this as I try a few modifications to the deck to try to support more creatures. This statement and the response I made to the last statement makes me wonder if I really can get the victory quickly enough. With only 1 ancestral, 2 impulses, and 2 cycling starstorms, you just don't have enough digging to find the 4 creatures in your deck. I see your point and going up to 4 Impulse is going to have to be a priority as I was starting to realize this in my last post reply. Besides all of this, I find the brainstorm/fetchland argument to be flawed. I think I explained the reasons thouroughly. Wastelands, Stifles, COTV1, Blood Moon, importance of red mana sources. I guess we are just going to disagree on this one. There are a bunch of big blue flying things that work better. Actually big blue flyer is probably not what this deck needs as much as quick threats that hit hard and probably more threats. Waterspout Djinn doesn't kill you against aggro decks that nibble at your life total, is a five as opposed to seven turn clock, and the drawback is perfectly manageable. Waterspout Djinn costs one more mana so it comes out one turn later. Also, you better be pretty sure that you are going to win because your mana is going to be stunted. It also means that you are not going to want to play it as early because you limit how you can deal with threats. Mahamoti Djinn is a four turn clock with no drawback at all - sounds good to me! But it costs 3 more mana so it comes into play 3 turns slower. I do not however see you doing much more than annoying a deck like TnT where they can just cast Survival and now overwhelm you with 5/3s and 4/4s. It will be tough. The Survivals and to a lesser extent the Pillars are must-counters. Shattering Pulse can handle early threats and still be useful late game. Rack and Ruin trades two for one. Flametongue Kavu trades two for one. What good is an Ophidian going to do against that?
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Leakycow
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« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2004, 06:40:52 pm » |
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I like this deck a lot. Looks fun. I have a couple of questions:
1. When you Starstorm, how often do you usually find yourself casting it with X >1? I only ask because I was using Starstorm in a (somewhat) similar red deck, but found Slice and Dice to be just as good 90% of the time. It still kills welders and soldiers at instant speed and gets you a card draw. If you need to kill Wurms or Su-Chis, Slice and Dice still works.
2. I agree that you'll need to find your creatures, thus Impulse is good. Have you tried actual card-drawing instead of the digging, though? I haven't playtested your deck, but I think it could support AK decently even without Intuitions.
Good luck
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*SQUIRT*
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« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2004, 06:50:00 pm » |
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When you Starstorm, how often do you usually find yourself casting it with X >1? 2 is a popular number against many decks including Suicide and Goblins (with Piledriver). I think the flexibility to go beyond 1 is important. Have you tried actual card-drawing instead of the digging, though? Actually, the best card-drawer for this deck would be Ophidian. However, I think it's slower than Impulse for what I need it to accomplish.
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« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2004, 06:46:31 pm » |
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I realize this topic is old, but I have some changes that I have made to it and wanted to bounce some ideas around. By the way, a friend of mine decided that Nophidian is a better name than UrPhidless.
Damping Matrix - I found that the creatures that I really wanted to neuter was Goblin Welders. In all non-workshop control and combo matchups, I sided out Damping Matrix. I have extra hate for workshop decks with so many artifact removal, so Damping Matrix isn't necessarily needed.
Null Rod - This became the next choice to replace Damping Matrix. The advantage is that against control and combo, they cannot use the artifact mana to operate under the Blood Moon. Plus, it is probably just as strong in most of the workshop matchups. The disadvantage is that I neuter my own moxes as well, but I leave them in the deck as early game Time Walks.
Tolarian Academy - As long as I am using Null Rods, I might as well get some mana for my moxes that I can't use anymore. This can provide the boost of mana that I need until I am ready to lock down with a Blood Moon.
Morphling - Now that Damping Matrix is gone, maybe it's time to go with the control beatdown of choice with Superman. He may not be so super again, but he can get the job done.
So this is my revised decklist.
1 Strip Mine 4 Wasteland 4 Volcanic Island 2 Shivan Reef 1 Tolarian Academy 6 Island 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Pearl 1 Sol Ring - Should be an Emerald if I owned one 1 Black Lotus
4 Force of Will 4 Mana Drain 4 Mana Leak 2 Daze
3 Blood Moon 3 Chalice of the Void 2 Null Rod
1 Ancestral Recall 1 Time Walk 4 Impulse
3 Fire/Ice
2 Morphling
That leaves 3 slots open up for debate. Here are the options that I can think of.
Ophidian - I mentioned the reasons why I don't like him in the deck. However, it is still an outside possibility.
Gorilla Shaman - A little redundant with the Null Rods and Chalice of the Void. Therefore, I don't think this is a good choice except as a sideboard foil to opposing Chalice of the Void for 2.
Starstorm - A decent removal spell that can cycle away against creatureless decks.
Slice and Dice - Another decent removal spell that has the effect of both Fire and Ice combined. As another option, it's the same cost as Starstorm for 4. Besides, what the the creatures do you really want to get rid of beside Swarms, Shamans, Welders, and Soldier Token. Flametongue Kavu is coming from the sideboard against aggro decks for larger creatures.
Stifle - I would rather not give the opportunity to allow a first turn fetch for an Island. However, I am also trying to cast an early Null Rod or Chalice of the Void for 1, so I need to weigh the need to cast that versus the potentially dead card. Currently, this is my best option.
Deep Analysis - Since I cannot run 8 Impulses, I might need some more digging. This allows me to draw 4 cards.
Fact or Fiction - This is generally an overcosted Impulse for 5. However, it could be useful.
Future Sight - Sure it can be compared to Yawgmoth's Will, but I don't want too many late game cards. However, there still might be room for one.
Thirst for Knowledge - Draw 3 discard an artifact that is probably dead anyways. Factor in that I may have dead cards and this doesn't seem like such a bad option either.
So which options are better and why?
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Mon, Goblin Chief
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« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2004, 09:27:36 pm » |
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Looking at the decklist and the strategy you described for it (no carddraw, lock 'em down and beat 'em up), the deck should play pretty similar to Nether Void or Chalice Black. Now looking at the decklists of these decks and your deck, there is one glaring difference: Those decks use 10-12 beaters (Mishra, Shade and Specter/Negator, usually) while you have a measly two now. IMO this is far to few. Phid-decks of old where able to run only two Supermen as their kill because once they had control they'd dig through their deck extremly fast, picking up more counters on the way. Your deck in comparison doesn't have that carddrawing-engine and actually doesn't want it. IMO that also forces you to run more critters, though. Because of that I'd try to fit 4 Serendibs into the deck in addition to the Morphlings. You don't want to give your opponent time to draw out of the soft lock and go active again before he's dead. On another note, you might consider cutting the Dazes for Misdirections. They allow you to resolve early bombs as well and don't become dead once your opponent has sufficent mana on the table. You're not able to counter some troublesome spells early on with them, though (Mask, i.e.). I concede I've never played the deck, so I don't assume I have a complete understanding of the deck. My assumptions seem logical TO ME, though. /edit: Thirst for Knowledge - Draw 3 discard an artifact that is probably dead anyways. Factor in that I may have dead cards and this doesn't seem like such a bad option either. Thirst for Knowledge looks great in the deck to me, too. Cycling your dead/extra hate for fresh cards while oftentimes creating cardadvantage has to be some good. I'd definitly try to fit in a full four of these.
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High Priest of the Church Of Bla
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