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Author Topic: Suggestions on a deck  (Read 1885 times)
johnstown713
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« on: February 25, 2004, 10:59:06 pm »

Ok I have been working on the deck and want to know wha everbody thinks.  I have had some difficulties with putting cards in and out.  First off I would like to say that I like the moat and abyss that are in there.  With that said here is the deck.  The mattagame is what you would expect.  Control, Tog, Aggro,  and Combo

Spells:
4 Counterspell  (sorry I own no mana drain but could maybe proxy them)
4 Force of Will
2 Fire/Ice
3 Brainstorm
4 Akumulated Knowledges
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Moat
1 The Abyss
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Balance
2 Stifle
3 Decree of Justice
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yagmoth's Will
2 Cunning Wish

Creatures:
2 Gorilla Shaman
1 Morphling

Mana:
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
3 Faerie Conclave
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Flooded Strand
2 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland


Ok, it is sixty cards and looks ify but hey that is why I'm here.  I was thinking about Misderections but decided not to main deck them.  The sideboard is horrible.  (I didn't put much effort into it yet)

Sideboard:
2 Misderection
1 Sowrds to Plowshares
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Tormads Crypt
2 Rack and Ruin
1 Stifle
1 Fire/Ice
1 Disenchant

Ok so any suggestions
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« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2004, 09:26:42 am »

A few things spring to mind:

Accumulated Knowledge needs Intuition to be a reliable draw engine.  I'd also be wary of using AK in a Tog-populated metagame since you're opening yourself up to flipping a coin for card advantage.  Skeletal Scrying has been amazing in most Keeper decks out there, and despite all that, I still think it's undervalued.

Your kill conditions work against other parts of the deck.  Faerie Conclace comes into play tapped.  This is okay for tempo decks like Fish, but a real issue for control decks.  See: [card]Flood Plain[/card] vs. [card]Polluted Delta[/card].  Also running Abyss and Decree of Justice seems subpar.  If your meta game dictates Moat or Abyss, you'll probably be better off running Decree and Humility.

Finally, your manabase needs some serious tweaking.  Most important, it should be expanded to the 26-27 range.  Also, make sure you include a basic Island to get around Blood Moon and other non-basic hate.
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johnstown713
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« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2004, 10:03:37 am »

Thank you for the advice.  The only problem is the faerie conclaves combo with the abyss and the moat so it has been good thus far.  I was having problems with the mana base but couldn't decide what to take out.  You brought up a good point with the ak's so im not sure if they are worth playing.  How should I change the mana base or are their opinions what to take out for it?
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« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2004, 01:18:59 pm »

Faerie Conclave ties up blue mana during your main phase and doesn't allow you access to its mana out of the gate.  Fish's free counters compensate for this to some degree, but a control deck needs {U}{U} on turn 2.  Yes, they evade Moat and The Abyss, but that's not reason alone to include them.  A control deck only needs a few (maybe 2-3) victory conditions.

For reference, here's a pretty standard Keeper manabase:

4x Polluted Delta
3x Tundra
3x Volcanic Island
3x Underground Sea
4x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
1x Library of Alexandria
1x Island
6x SoLoMoxen (no Emerald)

This manabase only really works if you're running 4 Brainstorm, so keep that in mind.

At the risk of sounding unoriginal, I think your best bet would be to take the basic Keeper skeleton and add Humility to the mix, maybe cutting a Shaman to make room.

So, my anti-aggro Keeper would look something like:

26 mana (see above)

4x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm
2x Cunning Wish
2x Stifle
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Mystical Tutor

2x Skeletal Scrying
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Mind Twist

3x Decree of Justice
2x Swords to Plowshares
1x Balance
1x Humility

1x Gorilla Shaman

1x Fire/Ice

If aggro is really really heavy, I'd consider replacing the Skeletal Scrying with Impulse, but test the Scrying first.  You might also consider tweaking the manabase to accomidate the {W}{W} of Humility's cc, maybe dropping a Volcanic for a City of Brass.
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« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2004, 01:39:06 pm »

I would just add a couple of opinions here...  #1, you don't need Intuition as much as a lot of people seem to think.  'Tog decks need Intiution for AK, because they abuse it with a lot of other cards also, where you don't have quite that luxury.  They can afford to it because they don't have a late-game.  You need the late-game...  I've noticed through significat testing that Intuition has no place in a Control deck like this.

I would also agree with the earlier points though that Faerie Conclave is going to burn you.  When using it, especially 3(!), you'll find yourself trying to figure out when to drop it, and will undoubtably cost yourself the ability to Counterspell on turn 2, and this is not a position you want to be in.

I like the main deck Moat, very nice in this metagame, and it would suite you well in the mirror where a DoJ is likely to reer its ugly head a few times over.  I don't think Abyss needs a slot main deck though, and it might serve you better in the SB to bring in vs. aggro.

I would add that 2 of those 3 Conclaves need to be turned into Tundra and Unerground Sea #3, this should help you smooth things out, and still let you use the Conclave if you're attached to it that much.  This should also help you cast Moat with an improved regularity.
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johnstown713
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2004, 02:56:41 pm »

Thank you again both of those comments are very good and I see your resoning.  I will try to make changes based on what you have said and take out the concloaves or maybe leave 1 in Confused   Is humility really worth it because the morphling and shaman get shafted.  So does the conclave if I laeve 1 in.
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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2004, 03:09:36 pm »

If you want to play humility (it's strong, because unlike Abyss it hits everything right away, and unlike Moat it stops utility creatures like goblin welder), you should replace the morphling(s) with Decrees of Justice.
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johnstown713
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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2004, 03:20:26 pm »

Ok I decided to replace the abyss with a humility and 2 of the conclaves became a tundra and underground sea.  I was thinking of including a scepter.   Razz
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« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2004, 07:49:38 pm »

I'm not crazy about Scepters in this deck, but if you decide to go that way, you probably don't need the Humility since recursive StPs in an aggro environment is some good.

Can you give a more precise account of what sort of metagame you play in?  With specific decks you know you'll see, etc.
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johnstown713
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« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2004, 08:23:54 pm »

I am still new to the format so I don't know all of the deck names.  There is tog, dragon, keeper, tnt, standstill, sui, stompy, and versions of sligh.  It seems pretty basic and there are a lot of people around here so there are good deck varieties.  Soon I will post an updated decklist.
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johnstown713
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« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2004, 07:32:26 pm »

Ok it turns out that there is atournament at neutral ground this weekend so maybe I will go and try this out.  I am debating whether or not to use void.  Here is the keeper list.  I need sideboard help though.


Spells:
4 Counterspell (sorry I own no mana drain but could maybe proxy them)
4 Force of Will
2 Fire/Ice
3 Brainstorm
2 Skelatal Scrying
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Moat
1 Humility
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Balance
2 Stifle
3 Decree of Justice
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yagmoth's Will
2 Cunning Wish
1 Mind Twist

Creatures:
2 Gorilla Shaman
1 Morphling

Mana:
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Island
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland


Sideboard:
2 Misderection
1 Sowrds to Plowshares
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Tormads Crypt
2 Rack and Ruin
1 Stifle
1 Fire/Ice
1 Disenchant
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