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Aeneas
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« on: February 18, 2004, 10:39:18 pm » |
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I am playing unpowered GAT at Dueling Grounds in Toronto this weekend and I need help versus aggro. Currently, I can only win a quarter of the time to simple aggro decks such as Sligh.
My current build is as such:
4 Underground Sea 4 Tropical Island 2 Flooded Strand 4 Polluted Delta 3 Island 1 Swamp 1 Strip Mine 3 Wasteland
4 Quirion Dryad 3 Psychatog
1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Regrowth 1 Fact or Faction 1 Gush 1 Yawgmoth's Will 3 Cunning Wish 3 Sleight of Hand 4 Brainstorm 2 Pernicious Deed
3 Duress 4 Counterspell 4 Force of Will 2 Misdirection
Sideboard: 1 Berserk 1 Coffin Purge 1 Mind Twist 1 Diabolic Edict 3 Tormod's Crypt 2 Pernicious Deed 3 Blue Elemental Blast 1 Stifle 1 Last Word
Any deck alterations or strategy recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
-Matt Kent
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CSeraph
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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2004, 02:52:41 am » |
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Sligh should be a good matchup for GAT. The problem with your list is a lack of pitch counters - add several copies of Misdirection and some dazes, and the matchup should change radically.
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rologa
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2004, 04:51:30 am » |
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I'm with CSeraph, Misdirection is a house vs aggro decks. You need also a more stable mana base. I think 8 fetchlands is too much, I will put 5 and more basic lands. You need one swamp to have a more stable black mana on the table and 3 or 4 island to avoid wastelands. I think that 3 Pernicious Deed are too much also. They are great vs aggro but are slow and also damage your position killing your dryads. Is preferible to put a dryad on the table early and use pitch counters to defend it. As soon as dryad become a 4/4 or 5/5 you don't need Pernicious. Another problem I see in your deck is the lack of Berserk. This card is the key to win a lot of games where you are in a bad position but you can kill your enemy with only a stroke. If you are thinking in invest in one power card to make better your deck it should be Berserk.
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Andreas
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2004, 04:57:11 am » |
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Just a weird idea that might work against aggro:
Have 4 Oath of Druids and some decently large creature (Akroma or Cognivore come to mind) in your Sideboard, and replace the Dryads and Psychatogs with them.
Or just try to get a Psychatog into play fast. That can be a large speedbump for a lot of aggro decks.
Some general comments:
- Your deck has a significant lack of card drawing. Try to add 4 Accumulated Knowledges and maybe one Intuition.
- 3 Deeds are probably too much, even against a lot of aggro.
- Why the Bayou and the Mountain? You should try to have as many blue sources as possible. Basic Islands are definitely better than those, and a Volcanis Island is surely better than a basic Mountain (even under Blood Moon it is not worse).
- Even at GATs prime noone played more than 6 Fetchlands, and for a reason.
- I am not sold on Regrowth, either.
- 3 Cunning Wishes are good in Tog, but I think in GAT 2 are enough.
- As CSeraph already saind, 2 Misdirections might help a lot. In my experience Duress is not that stellar against aggro.
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Andreas
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2004, 04:58:53 am » |
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Oops, it seems rologa and I posted simultaneously... but since we made some of the same comments they might have merit.  I guess the reason for the absence of Berserk is that the deck is unpowered, but I have to agree that Berserk could help the deck a lot.
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Aeneas
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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2004, 07:44:51 pm » |
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I have 2 intuitions and 4 accumulated knowledges, but i dont know how well they would do in the deck. anyone have any opinions on whether or not i should include them?
-Matt
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Ric_Flair
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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2004, 07:59:38 pm » |
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I agree with other posts that MisD is a help against Sligh, but Cunning Wish-able stuff in the board and [card]Vendetta[/card] help in the more powerful aggro decks. Sligh is pretty terrible right now in comparison to Workshop Aggro and Bazaar Aggro. Vendetta is an excellent spell. I have done some testing with it and it works, but I have not done extensive testing.
I am running two Deeds and two Vendettas MD and 2 Smother and 1 Deed, SB.
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Ultima
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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2004, 09:39:42 pm » |
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More or less, misdirection should give you the game aginst Sligh. As long as you can protect a single dryad to get past 3/3, you should win with just him. Goblin Sligh is a bit more difficult as a first turn lackey into a siege gang or piledriver can just kill you. Goblin sligh means get out dryad protect him, and keep lackey off the table.
AKs are worth playing defintely a must for GAT these days, but intuition is not. Its more important to cylce the AKs for dryads than Intuitioning for alot of cards, its not Hulk.
Just having a single copy of deed is usually enough with enough tutors. Think of deed as more of a bomb to be dropped instead of an answer.
IF artifact aggro is the reason for all the deeds then its just better to splash red for rack and ruin or artifact mutation.
Against bazaar aggro, use the smothers and get out those coffin purges as they are key.
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Logged
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Aeneas
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2004, 10:12:09 pm » |
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the deeds are in there because i am expecting a large ammount of O stompy. going down to 2 seems reasonable. cutting down to 6 or less fetchs is a good idea as well as adding 2 MisDs.
thanks
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DavidHernandez
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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2004, 10:40:45 pm » |
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i only have a moment to comment, so if i sound rude, it is unintentional. I just want to give as much info as i can in the time available.
You have too many fetch lands. Drop to 5. Drop the Bayou and the Mountain.
Drop Sleight of Hand. Add 4 AK's and 2 Intuitions. This will help you get what you need since you dont have much/any power.
Misdirections are a HOUSE. If you own 2 or 3, run them. IMO, 3 is best.
Fact or Fiction is probably too slow for you without power. Can you add a Mana Crypt? that will help. Also, a Lotus Petal may be useful. Otherwise, you should drop the Fact or Fiction in favor of Main Deck Stifle or a 4th Duress.
In fact, 2 or 3 main deck Stifles could be good, but i'm not sure about your meta. If you see a lot of Fetch Lands, Wastelands, and Decree of Justice, then run 3 main deck Stifles and 4 Duress. This will help you gain tempo.
Ric Flair's suggestion to run 2 Deeds instead of 3 is good. I dont agree with Vendetta, as I currently prefer Dry Spell for greater removal (especially against Sligh). My main argument against Vendetta is the amount of life you will lose when you kill anything that is worth using it on, while in matches that feature a lot of small critters you will only be able to target one of them.
You canNOT support 4 colors without power. Drop the Volcanic. Drop all of the RED in favor of more powerful Blue and Black spells.
since you have no power, you might benefit from main deck Null Rod if you see that others are playing with Moxes and Isochron Scepters. This is a good strategy that is borrowed from Fish and Gay/r. It can also help tremendously against Workshop decks.
gotta go. hope this is useful.
dave.
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Logged
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I will find a way -- or make one. Check out my wife! www.DanceKitten.comTeam GRO- Ours are bigger than yours. Card Carrying Member: Team Mindtrick Best.Fortune.Cookie.Ever: "Among the lucky, you are the chosen one."
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Aeneas
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« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2004, 01:41:40 am » |
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my deck list has undergone considerable revision.
i picked up a berserk and was therefore able to drop Fling and red along with it
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Grand Inquisitor
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« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2004, 08:53:25 am » |
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Fact or Fiction is probably too slow for you without power. Can you add a Mana Crypt? that will help. Also, a Lotus Petal may be useful. Otherwise, you should drop the Fact or Fiction in favor of Main Deck Stifle or a 4th Duress Excuse me Smennen, what about SOL RING, remember, the one that doesn't kill you against aggro! More seriously, I think its difficult to recommend even Intuition if you don't have more than Sol Ring/Mana crypt to accelerate it (or even Mana Drains). That and your AK's should cantrip well enough on their own. It would help to find room for Merchant Scroll (in place of regrowth, perhaps). I like the 6 fetchland configuration, however, I wouldn't bother with wastelands (although strip mine is a bomb), and I'd find room for at least 3, preferrably four islands. With that many fetchlands and 4 seas, the basic swamp should be dropped, especially if you plan to run maindeck stifles which is a great idea. Not only do they stop decree and strips, but they stop: isochron scepter, anything dragon, they're removal against O Stompy, Slaver, Stax' stack effects. The list goes on and on. I love this card. The Null Rod suggestion is excellent, but I'm not sure if you want them maindeck since they'll probably fight with Pernicious Deed, which is probably superior in the matchups you want both (except for Combo). I tend to disagree with Hernandez that the metagame is moving in a direction where Misdirection is good (its useless against anything artifact, O stompy and Dragon). However, GAT is definitely a deck that can abuse cheap counters. Currently I prefer Stifle, or even Daze if the rest of the deck is built right.
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There is not a single argument in your post. Just statements that have no meaning. - Guli
It's pretty awesome that I did that - Smmenen
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DavidHernandez
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« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2004, 01:43:27 pm » |
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Sol Ring is fine (it's what i use). I dont like dying to Mana Crypt either, but it can (and often does) give an amazing speed boost which he may be able to take advantage of (since he has no power).
As for Misdirection, I think any "control" deck that doesn't have the power cards should run FOUR MisD's. This card steals Ancestral, slaps Hymn To Tourach and Mind Twist, and acts as a pitch counter with no life loss. Also, people aren't expecting it, and that can give an advantage.
Stifle is amazing. It seems better every time i run it. 3 or 4 are awesome.
Daze is a good idea too, but i think it's too situational and requires running 4 (the GAT decks that run it and finish high tend to run 4). Definitely worth testing for him.
G.I. makes a great point about Pernicious Deed vs. Null Rod.
Dave.
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I will find a way -- or make one. Check out my wife! www.DanceKitten.comTeam GRO- Ours are bigger than yours. Card Carrying Member: Team Mindtrick Best.Fortune.Cookie.Ever: "Among the lucky, you are the chosen one."
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Flurp™
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« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2004, 02:46:22 pm » |
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You canNOT support 4 colors without power I have been playing 4 color unpowered GAT for since the begining of last summer and it has been working well. I play in a waistland light area, but if i saw more of them I would add in 2 or 3 stifles to main deck. Red helps the aggro matchup (fire/ice and terminate SB) and workshop matchup.
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Hi-Val
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« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2004, 04:52:11 pm » |
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If you run into a lot of Oshawa, try giving Perish a try. If you don't have a Dryad down, they'll do the trick, though Perish is better in Hulk for obvious reasons.
The key to winning Aggro is making your Dryads bigger than their stuff. Pile up on pitch counters and cantrips and you'll have a beastly dryad!
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HuntedWumpus
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« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2004, 09:43:13 pm » |
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Im a huge fan on maindeck stife, primarly because it... well it works. I would suggest loosing the slight of hand for and other playbable cards. Also, i would think that 3 edicts in your board is more apporiate. That allows you to bring in two against aggro and leave one for wishing purposes. As dave said, you are way to heavy on fetch's. 5 at most i would think four is the number to go with. WHOA, where are your AK's i thought somthing looked funny. I would do this.
** First fix the mana base and fetch problems
Then -3 Slight of hand -1 Regrowth
+4 AK This is an absolute must. Next. I personally would use stifle over duress, but if you dont then run 3 in the board so one can be wished for and 2 can be moved in. Same with edicts in the board. Run 3. That sould really help out an aggro match.
If your needing room in the board then -1 last word -1 crypt -1 deed All these would be easy to loose. Alright good luck.
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If you haven't played "Hunt the Wumpus" then you can't really call yourself a gamer.
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eddavatar
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« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2004, 02:30:15 am » |
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Sligh shouldn't be a matchup that you would be worrying about. If it is, run 1-2 more misdirection.
Please, don't run sleigh of hand and regrowth. AK are just superior.
Don't run Intution if you are powerless. And null rods are awesome.
Stifles are very important in modern metagame. 2 at the least.
If you are going to let the red stay in the deck, Fire/Ice are awesome.
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Logged
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Ancestral into Lotus/Walk/Yawg Will is good. But a follow up AK that get you a demonic tutor's even better. True story from me on MWS.
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