Food Chain Goblins

[Plainswalker]

I think someone in the T1 Forum mentioned a lack of a thread after the FCG primer, so I thought I'd start one myself.

I don't know how much there is to say about it though, Vegeta did a wicked good (ya I'm from Massachusetts   ) job of talking about it. I originally was gonna end up PMing him until he got pissed at me so I think I'll just talk about the stuff I wanted to talk with him about.

For reference this is what I'm running right now, it's identical to his final list in the primer with the exception of Mox Diamond over Lotus Petal right now.

1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Chrome Mox
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
5 Mountain
// Combo Card
4 Food Chain
// Creatures
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Goblin Matron
3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Recruiter
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Skirk Prospector
4 Goblin Lackey


As I said, I'm testing the diamond for now, I've had mixed results with it, and have kept hands where I pretended it was both a petal and a mox and it's still up in the air for me. I think if I were to run with out the cards I own (I have emerald, but no ruby or lotus) I would have no problem running it, since they would be replaced by more lands, Mountains or Ancient Tombs possibly. The way it is now though I may just go back to petal.

Another thing I did was discuss how important Goblin Matron was to the deck. My concern wasn't whether it was good or not, I've played the deck and it's pretty amazing sometimes, but the fact is that in the primer he sided it out everytime, so I thought maybe it was worth looking into something that wasn't an automatic card to take out. His response was, and I agree with this:

Goblin Matron is not super crucial or anything, it's just a pretty good card to use. You only have 2 slots to fill, so using something like Mogg Fanatic, etc. is unadvisable. Plus if you play Matron w/ Food Chain out, you basically fetch whatever you need to win the game right then.

For lack of anything better, they belong in the deck.

Unless some new goblins are printed, I can't really find anything myself that would fit better in here either.

The final thing I had in my mind was the addition of Wheel of Fortune. It is partially a combo deck after all, who wouldn't want a draw 7? Obviously it isn't that simple, but I'm not sure what could be cut and whether it's worth it. On the plus side it gives you that much more of a chance of finding Food Chain, which although not needed, is what makes the deck competitive enough vs those faster decks. It also lets you go nuts even without the food chains. On the negative side it worsens your control matchups which although aren't bad, are a little worse then traditional aggro since you can be disrupted more easily. I think from the point of view I have about it right now, it's a very risky demonic tutor in a deck with no way to pull up the foodchains any other way. From this view I don't see a reason for playing it, but I wanted to get discussion going on it and maybe someone can convince me otherwise.

Although not the best deck out there, it's very fun to play, I still smile every time I draw 4 Goblins with Goblin Ringleader (especially without a Goblin Recruiter stack  :shock: ) and even if you don't like the deck at all, it's worth playing so you know how it works so you can play better vs it if it shows up. I know I answered most of my own questions, but I really wanted to see this talked about and couldn't go about it any other way. I tend to get stuck in my ways, so I need other points of view. Thanks for reading.

[Vegeta2711]

I cut a Incinerator for Wheel a couple of days after the primer got posted. Go figure. Wheel is strong enough where it can replace a Gempalm or Matron w/o too much arguement from yourself.

[jCoKn]

I have the complete FCG deck, and have been running it on/off since Scourge. I run the Mox Diamond and have found it beyond useful as it provides a steady mana source as opposed to a one-time deal. I also only run 6 fetches, w/ 4 mountains, (1 prospector taken out) which makes it easier to ditch to the mox. I was even contemplating at one point to throw in a Maze of Ith for those drawn out Tog games, where Piledrivers are counter-meat and all the combo pieces are as well, but decided against it as it really slows down the deck and is really not useful for long drawn out games. I also am oppsed to Ancient Tomb, and don't run them, in their place I run 2 Karplusan forest. I have tried Josh Silvestri's FCG primer posted here at 2 tournaments and found it to be too inconsistent, and very often I don't have the mana to drop everything quick enough, and end up getting out-raced by Dragon or Tog. Admitted, even without comboing out the deck is very efficient, and can beat down most decks in 4-5 turns, but that just doesn't cut it with Tendrils, Dragon, Tog, Keeper, or Landstill. The easiest matches are RG Beats, Burn, Slaver, and Welder (which are admittedly getting more popular these days) but FCG I've just found to be a consistent top-6 and just doesn't have the flexibility that many of today's decks have.

On the positive side, FCG is wicked fun to play and a definite surprise to most decks. There aren't many people out there who have faith in this deck, and they all underestimate its speed (assuming a good draw).

**I also brought the prospector-count down to 2 and threw in a Skirk Firemarshal... It really speeds up the alternate win condition if say there's a Moat or some other blocking engine.

[The Hamburgler]

If somehow a Moat resolves in a match up or another blocking mechanism then the deck should have answers like all combo. The one Goblin Sharpshooter is to deal with Moat and the Gempalm Incinerator has done the job on Phyrexian Negators and other fast blockers.

Why food chain goblins is good, and where:
This is just from some testing on magic workstation and in real life. The deck towers over most aggro, allot of people may disagree but I find Gempalm to be a sufficient answer. The control matches have gone in my favor due to Goblin Lackey, fast beat down and resolved Goblin Piledrivers. I lost to Isochron Sceptor with a Fire/Ice on it and beat Greg (plainswalker) with Slaver due to a resolved Chalice of the Void for two and one, Karn, Silver Golem and Platinum Angel. I think the sideboard needs the most work; it can push

[SpencerForHire]

The only problem I have had with this deck so far is when I played a casual deck.  The deck got a second turn Forgotten Ancient (due to dark ritual and a forest out).  The guy got a second out two turns later and i was like "shiat"  Two turns later i dealt him 50 damage and he only had one ancient out thanks to an incredibly large incinerator cycle but thats besides the point.

The deck is a little slower then most combo I have seen and thats the only problem with it, besides rare cases it is generally quite ridiculous in its reliability to go off.

I played like 4 games against a Hulk deck, losing only the first one.  After boarding I had no trouble the rest of the time, REBing draws, and lackey'n out the combo pieces to prevent countering.

I run Xantids in the SB despite the primer ridiculing them, I wanna see for myself, I still believe very highly of their ability to just wreck control.

After more testing in my aggro heavy meta I'll let you know what I think.

[Vegeta2711]

The fact that I bothered even mentioning Xantid's in the primer should speak to their power. As I stated, they just never fully worked for me, but they are strong. Note the whole thing about how no Goblin/Food Chain card should be in the deck barring real power, the fact that I tried them should say they are least a ok choice noone will mock you for.  :lol:

[jCoKn]

I would think Xantid is lost in the sideboard, let alone the deck.

As Vegeta2711 said, there is often that you'll have the Xantid sitting in your hand w/o a green to cast it with, and even then, isn't a lackey a much better first turn drop? Second, Xantid slows the deck down 2 turns. Because you have to combo out AFTER you swing with the Xantid, there are many many things your opponent can do, since you just lost the whole haste tactic, which makes the biggest difference. This extra turn your opponent has leaves you vulnerable to:

1. Pyroclasm
2. Wrath of God
3. Moat/Slaver/Other prison
4. Them comboing out

That's why there's so much better things to fill your sideboard with. Mine's:

3 Pyroblast
3 REB
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Blood Moon
3 Null Rod

And all those cards are essential spots, and if our sideboards had maybe 30 slots to fill, maybe then I'd consider Xantid Swarm, but as it stands the sideboard is already tight, and there's no room for bugs.

[TheHuff]

The idea of FCG is that it has 2 ways of winning the match:
     1: it can combo off before your opponent has a chance to set up or
     2. It can turn into goblin beats (your best choice against control)

The first option should be attempted only if you are against combo or aggro, control should not be much of a problem considering that you should just beable to play threat after threat until theny cant counter any more, eventually something will get throug.  This is why Xantid would be completly useless against control, it would just slow you down a full turn, when you could just be concentrating on beating them down with goblins.
FCG is an Agro-Combo deck, not a straight combo deck.

[Mon, Goblin Chief]

Second, Xantid slows the deck down 2 turns. Because you have to combo out AFTER you swing with the Xantid, there are many many things your opponent can do, since you just lost the whole haste tactic, which makes the biggest difference. This extra turn your opponent has leaves you vulnerable to:...

This is wrong. If you're an able player, you win the turn the combo drops regardless of attacking. Just shoot your opponent with SGC, Sharpshooter and Prospector.

[Plainswalker]

Just a quick note, I'm pretty much finshed with my FCG except with small tinkering from time to time, but if both this thread and the sideboard FCG thread are to stay open, lets make sure they stay on topic. One on the deck, the other on sideboard. Thanks for keeping them both going though