[Card Discussion] Mishra's Factory, preparation for aggro

[HuntedWumpus]

In the past few months, will the rise and fall of decks like GAT and Long.dec, aggro had sufficantly been put on hold. Maybe its me, but saw a sharp decline in  the number of Mishra's factorys seeing play, with the exception of landstill. But the natural rotation of the meta has shifted and with Aggro on the slow, but steady rise, manifesting itself in: Gay/r, BigO, Mit Dem Ravager, Madness, Mono Brown, and others; is it time to delve into the coffers and bring out the Factories?

I know I have phased in two into my current deck that use to have a staple collection of four residing within, but were removed. Has anyone else been making substantial changes, in preparation for aggro. Or is it lust me freaking out?

[Smash]

Factory is too small for decks like stompy and TnT. Its a fun card, but in most decks it really is a little suboptimal.

Don't freak out, its just aggro

[Tempe]

The difference between the rise of aggro now and the aggro before GAT and the "revolution of Type 1," was that the aggro beforehand was decks like Sligh, Stompy, and Suicide, while today we have TnT, Oshawa Stompy, and Madness. These new aggro decks have creatures that are significantly larger than a Mishra's Factory. The Factory used to be effective because it was a fast solution to smaller creatures that could be pumped out fast by the old aggro decks, and could trade 1 for 1, or they would simply kill the other creature. The new decks are not stopped at all by a factory.

But I'm interested why you are using factory against aggro. At least in my opinion, the best time to use factory was against control like monoblue, as it was an uncounterable kill condition that could slip out early in the game and start beating, or block ophidian. But these days are long gone, and with them goes Mishra's Factory.

Why did you start putting Factories back into your deck? Unless your metagame is filled with the older aggro with significantly smaller creatures, or you still have decks like Monoblue, Factory won't do a lot of good for you.

--Tempe

P.S.

Or is it lust me freaking out?

Freudian Slip!

[DavidHernandez]

Mishra's Factory certainly has a place, but it is a very specific place...

Running Factory's almost always assumes that you are playing a control deck, or aggro with control elements.  For example, Gay/r, Fish, Landstill, and some Keeper builds.  There are still players using Factory's in Void decks too.

I think the tendency to run fewer (or no) Factory's is due to the extreme amount of hate that people are playing (5 strip effects almost standard in every deck).  Without slowing the game down with cards like Standstill or Nether Void, the Factory's are too slow to win games.

Thus, the use of Factory's in Fish/Landstill works well, while in general, it's a sub-optimal thing to include.

Dave.

[Swanky]

I wouldn't necessarily call Gay/r an 'aggro deck,' per se; from what I've seen, most Fish/x builds (where 'x' is equal to any color other than blue.) are aggro-control.  I'm sure you probably knew that, but I just wanted to clarify.  

I feel as though Mishra's Factory is currently playing as large of a game as it will be for quite some time, so to speak.  It's found a place in decks that use man-lands out of dogma (Landstill, for example.).  Other than that, Mishra's Sweatshop hasn't exactly proliferated every nook and cranny of the format.  As a previous poster pointed out, it was primarily an anti-control measure.  However, in today's metagame, we have control decks that can become aggressive relatively easily (Read:  The Smiley-Pie that is Psychatog.).

That's not to entirely trivialize the card; I've seen some R/G Beats lists  that implement the card, and Fish lists will typically have them to complement Conclaves.  However, I think that in most decks Sweatshops are wasted slots.

I wonder how much Mishra pays his indentures?

*Shrug*

[HuntedWumpus]

To Be more specific, i added two Factors to my BG Void to up the total creature count and help deal with the amount of manlands Ive been facing against Landstill, and GayFish. He also provides a slightly higher aggressive edge. If i was wanting to abuse control i would favor negator higher then factory. Last point, factory can often be a secondary target for the 5 strips, people often try to keep me of green out the insane fear of deed.

[DavidHernandez]

I was clear:

Running Factory's almost always assumes that you are playing a control deck, or aggro with control elements.

I agree that Factory's are seeing as much play as they will for some time.  It's a great card, but will only work in certain strategies.

EDIT: Andrew, the fear of Deed is not "insane"...it's mandatory.  That card is a wrecking ball!

 :shock:

Dave.

[HuntedWumpus]

Oh i know its mandatory, i was refering to how i abuse the insane amount of justified fear.

@ Dave: So would would not support the subtraction of dustbowl and swamp in favor of two factories

[Tempe]

I might have been a little on the "anti-Factory" side in my previous post, but I'd just like to clarify. Mishra's Factory will always have a place in some decks until they change severely. One is obviously Landstill, as the whole point is to slip manlands under a standstill. The second is Fish, which likes the extra beats with very little tempo loss. The third is Void, since you can slip manlands under a Void with no extra cost.

So putting 2 Mishra's Factory into your void is very acceptable, especially against control decks. They may be very weak against TnT and Madness, so I'm hoping you don't see a lot of that in your area. Void is probably not the best deck to play in that metagame anyway, but that's a whole new topic.

--Tempe

[DavidHernandez]

When it comes to this deck, I follow what JACO and Pat do.  If they are not running Factory's, then I won't.  The 3 of you play the deck far more than I do, but I have studied it out (all Primers and threads), and I have played it.

I will say this: if you personally like playing the Factory's, and you have fun with them, and find them to be successful for you, then run them.

That's what the game is all about.  With enough wins, you could definitely convince me.

Dave.

[HuntedWumpus]

As of Monday im going to begin running a two factory build. Hopfully it will lower the amount of mana only lands that i get late game, generally dead cards, as well as upping my total maindeck creature count to 12.

[DavidHernandez]

were you happy with it?

i went 3-0 with GAT.



Dave

[eddavatar]

dave: You went 3-0 because you are a lucksack -.- Who can go triple pitch counters like you do on that day. And don't make me mention the royal screw-up =) Meh, good job anyhow.

Wumpi one: factory...I don't know....does it really do enough for you? I didn't see any impact of the 2 factory when I played against you.

[HuntedWumpus]

I was pleased with the performace for the sole reasont that they raised my creature count from 10 to 12. That was quickly felt. Secondly, smart players that know my deck wont use a ld spell on them unless absoultly nessesary. They know its more important to keep me off green.

I need a few more match's before i make a final choice. However if i were going to a big tourney Today (im not) there would be two in the BGVoid build.