How much fast mana is there, really?

[Tempe]

Recently, I've been on a quest to see how much fast mana I can cram into a single deck. Currently, I am up to 34 non-land fast mana cards, with 19 different cards. Here is the current list:

4 Cabal Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Tinder Wall
4 Dark Ritual
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Channel
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Grim Monolith
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl

Is there anything else I'm missing, or is this truly all of the fast mana we have? Note that I don't want conditional fast mana like [card]Songs of the Damned[/card]. Thanks in advance to anyone who helps.

--Tempe

[Matt]

Lotus Petal

[Tempe]

I don't know how I could have missed that one . I thought I added it. Thanks.

Note that my definition of fast mana means that it has immediate returns of more mana than used to cast it, so [card]Eladamris Vineyard[/card] would not work, nor would [card]Thran Dynamo[/card].

--Tempe

[Ric_Flair]

Technically [card]Blasted Landscape[/card], [card]Crystal Vein[/card], Ancient Tomb, and City of Traitors, Mishra's Workshop are all fast mana, though they are land.

[Smmenen]

Does Tolarian not count?

Steve

[Matt]

If you look closely, the guy was asking for nonland mana.

[Dr. Sylvan]

Channel the Suns.

I suppose Culling the Weak is "conditional".

[Matt]

[card]Natural Balance[/card]
[card]Seething Song[/card]
[card]Drain Power[/card], assuming "my opponent has two untapped lands" isn't conditional.

[card]High Tide[/card] isn't THAT conditional.

[rmn]

So, you're making Belcher?

Um... Dream Halls.  Conditional: Gaea's Balance, Culling the Weak (go Kobolds!).

EDIT: Oh yeah.. there's the High Tide for Swamps, and that black instant  that lets you sac lands for a black each.  And I guess Cadaverous Bloom and Squandered Resources.  The only one that isn't totally conditional here is the Bloom, I guess...

[rvs]

Bubbling Muck!

R0ar!

[Fastbond]

Mox Crystal
Blacker Lotus
Jack-in-the-Mox

This is in casual...

[Tempe]

Well, I was really just curious to see how much mana one could generate in a deck that is all mana. I dislike Belcher for being such purebred combo, so I would never play it. However, it is the deck that got me thinking about it. The premise of this deck is just to generate as much mana as possible on the first turn.

You guys have been a big help, although most would require playing against an opponent who would do something or playing with land. Channel the Suns is a good one to add, and Cadaverous Bloom could also work.

Ok, I'm opening it up to land cards as well, so [card]Tolarian Academy[/card], [card]Fastbond[/card], [card]Cadaverous Bloom[/card] and [card]Squandered Resources[/card] are probably good.

I'm not sure whether adding basics (islands/swamps) and then using Natural Balance and High Tide/Bubbling Muck would accelerate my mana or just slow me down. It would require fastbond to work well, I think. I'll see.

Any other ideas?

--Tempe

[Smmenen]

Seething Song is in his opening post and has been since i first saw it.

Steve

[Upinthe]

Metalworker, Brightstone Ritual, Mana Flare, Extraplanar Lens, Mirari's Wake, Gauntlet of Might, and Rasputin Dreamweaver can technically provide more mana than they cost to cast.

[Matt]

Metalworker has summoning sickness though, so it doesn't fit the criteria.

[Fastbond]

I think you've found all the good fast mana.  If a mana sources costs more than zero to cast it has to be really good.  You have to be able to leave enough room for draw spells.  You also need to be able to hit another draw spell when you cast one and that other draw spell has to draw enough cards to be able to have the mana to cast it.  Thus, I'd reccomend Krark's-Clan Ironworks as the primary engine piece.

You'll take out all the expensive fast mana pieces until you find that regular old land helps you go off more frequently than expensive mana pieces.  I'd reccomend goldfishing with the fast mana you have and seeing how much and in what color quantities you can generate on the first turn and then insert the draw spells to match.

Here's a sample Krark's-Clan decklist, I think this will be an interesting thread overall, if only to explore what exactly you'd need to be able to go off first turn consistently.  If you allow unglued and anti-cards, this will be a totally different animal, you'd be amazed at what just one Blacker Lotus can do for your turn one win percentage.  If you use 5 color rules, you'll have a lot more room for draw spells.

Getting Started(27):
X9 Good restricted Accelerants
X1 Grim Monolith
X4 Elvish Spirit Guide
X1 Mox Diamond
X1 Chrome Mox
X1 Lotus Petal
X1 Lion's Eye Diamond
X4 Mishra's Workshop
X4 Ancient Tomb
X1 Tolarian Academy

Green is good(3):
X1 Crop Rotation
X1 Fastbond
X1 Channel

Gotta have eight to be sure to get blue mana(4):
X4 Chromatic Sphere

Gotta have at least eight draw spells, to get one in opening hand the more the better(13):
X5 Draw 7's
X4 Meditate
X1 Frantic Search
X1 Braingeyser
X1 Stroke of Genius
X1 Ancestral Recall

Engine Pieces(13):
X4 Krark's Clan Ironworks
X4 Basalt Monolith
X4 Helm of Awakening
X1 Voltaic Key

Saccable artifacts:  About 24.

Is this a goldfish deck?  So you want a deck with a lot of mental puzzles to go off on turn one?

[thorme]

Here is the current list:

...
1 Channel
...

Note that I don't want conditional fast mana like Songs of the Damned.

--Tempe

Channel is conditional fast mana.  The condition?  You must have 4 or more life for Channel to accelerate you.

Just wanted to point that out, since you seem to be very averse to having conditional accelerators in your list.

[Tempe]

Its less that I am so strict about conditionality that I don't like Channel, but that I am doing a test to see how much a deck that is completely mana generators can generate on the first turn. So, obviously, in a deck with all mana, Songs of the Damned will do nothing, as will a lot of other cards.

Note, this means no draw of any kind. Once I reach 60 mana producers, then I may take this further.

--Tempe

[Fastbond]

Well, you're going to come up with some problems with a mostly all mana deck pretty quickly.  You can't really afford to mulligan at all.  Since, so much of the deck is mana, your draw cards have to be able to draw a lot to be able to hit the next draw spell.  And the more nonland mana sources, you have the more you need to mulligan and the less you can afford to mulligan because you need a lot of mana to cast your draw spells.

This all changes if you allow Blacker Lotus, Contract from Below, Mox Crystal, and Jack-in-the-Mox in your list.

[Tempe]

I'm not really worried about mulliganing here. The basic point is to just pick 7 cards out of those 60 randomly, and see how much mana they generate. And no, I'm not using Unglued .

--Tempe

[dandan]

Power Artifact is conditional but achieving infinite mana on turn 1 is a goal worth stretching for.
Gaea's Touch would give you GGG for GG in a Green deck that runs a reasonable amount of Forests. I don't think it fits but it is the 'green ritual'
Crop Rotation usually gives you more mana than it costs to use. Again it needs lands.

[defector]

Does land grant help you?  It's fast and nets one mana.
defector