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Author Topic: [Report] Dismal Performance in Maine  (Read 2726 times)
Bulls on Parade
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« on: July 11, 2004, 08:54:46 am »

I hope I interested enough people to read this with the fact that I'm writing a tournament report about a tournament I crapped out in, and I'm posting this in Open because I think I raise an important issue (at least, to me) and I want everyone to be able to discuss it. Don't worry, when I come to that part, you'll know. I apologize in advance for a tourney report that I'm sure will come out laden with innuendo, but it's just a little too funny to me.

Pre-Tourney Shenanigans:

For me, these start at about 9 o'clock the night before the tournament. I'm working at a pool I lifeguard at, but I have to stay open until 11 instead of closing at the usual 9:30 because the Academic Study Association has reserved the pool for an extra hour and a half. At first I was thinking it wouldn't be too bad because they wouldn't get rowdy or break rules, being uber d0rks and all. Yeah, I just called someone a dork using the term uber d0rk. They're actually pretty damn annoying, and I get a little upset, but think to myself as long as these bastids are outta my pool by 11 it'll be alright. Well they were. Barely. Apparently the Academic Study Association rolls with some pretty hardcore gangstas [/sarcasm] and they think they don't have to leave when I tell them to, but they get out eventually. Here on Cape Cod, we have this setup called the Melody Tent. It's actually pretty darn awesome, with names like George Thurgood, Bela Fleck and Dane Cook showing up recently, but it obviously tends to draw in a lot of traffic. I was pretty confident I'd be able to beat said traffic if I got out at 11 sharp, but it wasn't meant to be. As I walk out to the car I see the lines begin to form, and this brings me to my first tournament report:

Round 1: I'm paired up with a PT Cruiser. Essentially, if you're driving a PT Cruiser, you probably suck a little more than just as a driver- so I think I'm all set and don't mind doing what I must to get home by the 11:30 I told my friends I'd meet them. I want to pull out of the hotel parking lot(I gave it to her pretty hard as it is) but big-ballin' PT Cruiser thought differently. I pulled out anyway, and turning off my headlights so they wouldn't see me approaching from the rear I pull up in the left lane (yes, on a 2 way, 2 lane street). I flash on the lights and gun it past them. Game 2 they get mana screwed or something.

Round 2: I'm paired with my Grandma at home. She locked the door, and I had to walk around. Weak. 0-2

Round 3: We drive over to Greg's house, and Huff says he doesn't think he really wants to go. Before I go any further, I think now is the time to introduce the characters of this epic:
Me- I'm John, and I rock. Boo-ya.
Rob- Rob's driving us, because Greg is an unreliable little sweat shop worker. Rob plays cool decks and is a cool dude.
Huff- Huff is a midget of no more than 3 foot 7 who has to play cards with one hand because he's always masturbating... his ego. Or something. He thinks he's way too cool to come play cards with us for a day, but he never thinks he's too cool to feel up his sister in the garage like that one time on Thanksgiving when I was 17. Anyway, he's a bastid.
and finally, Chamberlain- Chamberlain is a small Vietnamese whore that Huff ordered through air mail, and thus thinks (s)he has to go everywhere we go. I apologize again if you don't know these people in real life and therefore don't find this amusing, or even more if you do know these people, and don't find it amusing.  
Anyway, back to Round 3- Huff is intimating that he doesn't think he wants to make the trip, as we did come wake him up out of bed at like 12. I was really hoping to see his hot sister, but in retrospect I don't know if it was worthwhile. I know that if Huff wusses out the trip won't happen or at least will be extremely awkward because Rob is too nice to make fun of Chamberlain like I do and I need someone else to egg me on, so I go into total whine mode. Eventually I whine him into submission, and he throws Slaver together. Since it's about 2am at this point, Rob crashes downstairs and the rest of us go fill various rooms in Greg's vacated house. We actually get to sleep at 4 or so, and wake up at 6, because who needs to sleep for more than 2 hours before a long day in a car and a tournament of a game that typically tries all of one's nerves anyway?

We get out of Greg's at around 7, and stop for energy drinks. On the car ride about 47 different people tell us their opinion of how to get to Scarborough, and I decide we should average the information because we didn't take into account that Maine is one collective mind whose only goals are to drive a red pickup truck while finding free food and beautiful cousins daily.

We arrive at the tournament scene at 11-ish, and it's really nice. My friends have to fill out their deck regs, but I emailed mine. The tourney doesn't begin until 1:00, a full hour after the scheduled start time, because some greedy bastid (NOT affiliated with the store, just holding the tournament) wanted to suck every penny from us- we were already throwing down a steep $25 for a tournament with prizes for only first and second, but he wanted $30 (which would have been $930 total with the 31 persons attending, and that's obviously more than enough to give away a Lotus and a Berserk). I see and greet Eric (ELD) whom is one of those guys who tolerates me because I see and talk to him briefly at least monthly at tournaments. I also talked to Meddling Mage here on TMD, and he was a cool dude. Finally, pairings for round one are posted:

Round 1: Scott with Madness
While I'm not too worried about the matchup, I just can't help but see it as a total slap in the face- the night before I took out FTK on the basis that no one would play madness in an unlimited proxy environment, which everyone agreed with. I still left 2 in which is more than enough, but it made me laugh regardless. Scott takes game one and I take game two equally quickly, but game 3 is interesting. I hear the ten-minute time announcement made by the computer, and he takes a few really drawn out turns where he ultimately does nothing. During the second of these turns I drop hints like asking those around me if they know how much time is left, but I didn't really want to accuse anyone of stalling. Fast forwarding to 3 turns before the 5 turn limit is called, I resolve my second Angel in hopes that I'd kill him quickly enough. When the 5 turn limit is called, it's pretty noisy and the announcement is made by the computer. I'm done with my turn, but the Judge walks by and I ask him if what I'd just heard was actually the 5 turn announcement, and he says yes. Back into the game, I look at my opponent and tell him it's his turn. The judge declares that means its turn 1/5. I don't know if I can clearly convey my point in text right now, but everyone agreed that I screwed myself out of a win by not trying to argue with the Judge. I could have still done it in the turns I had if I hadn't made a play error, so I didn't even try to argue it.

Round 2: Jason with GAT
I'm sitting next to Rob this round, so I'm a dick to the kid. I think it's hilarious, but can't speak for anyone else. He keeps making comments like "Oh Nos I hear card advantage wins games!" and I continually respond with something along the lines of "Nope. I don't touch the stuff- I actually can't stand it", and so on and so forth. He wins game one and game two my face down Angel is on the stack and he counters. I counter back, and am left with a hand of Force, and 2 nonblue cards. I am, however, confident that he has a counter left. I drop my FoW on the table like it was an accident. He sees it, and I don't know if he thinks I didn't know he saw it, but he says "I think I'll stick with my original plan and let the Angel resolve." Now, it turns out that he had a Force and a blue card in his hand, but didn't force the Angel because he had a Dryad of about 8/8 at the time. This is the interesting point I was hoping to clarify- is this against the rules? Would a judge look down upon this if they saw and knew what I was doing? I don't think it's immoral which is equally important, I'm utilizing everything I have to the best of my ability to try to gain an advantage (without cheating of course). He ends up winning the match, but I'd just like to know.

The rest of the tournament is really insignificant- I lose to a monoblue Back to Basics/Null Rod/ Counters PIRATES deck. I give the guy a big high five, and proceed to throw my deck in the trashcan (a funny picture will be up sooner or later). I know the problem of course wasn't the deck and it was me, but god damn. PIRATES. Round 4 I'm paired with Stax, a matchup I have no desire to play out, so I tell him he can take the win 2-0 and go see what the deal is with my successful friends who are discussing drawing the remaining rounds. Round 5 I actually play out because the kid made me mad. He was playing 7/10 or something, and I 2-0 him in a matter of minutes, not that it matters.

For sake of completion, I utilized 76 proxies for this tournament for my 61 card maindeck 4cControl build, with the 61st card being a 3rd City of Brass. The only choices that stand out in the maindeck were 2 Wishes, 2 Shamans, 1 Fire/Ice, and the obvious extra mana source. The sideboard looked like:
SB: 2 Flametongue Kavu
SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast (obviously anticipating a field control heavy)
SB: 2 Rack and Ruin
SB: 2 Disenchant
SB: 1 Coffin Purge
SB: 1 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 1 Fire/Ice
SB: 1 Vampiric Tutor
SB: 1 Skeletal Scrying

Props:
Everyone who I went with, except Huff and Chamberlain. Heh.
The tourney Judge- he was an awesome guy with solid Judge capabilities
The store for being so nice, although it wasn't quite Cape Cod, it was the closest I've seen.
Energy drinks, namely Red Bulls and Monsters.
Everyone else I met, you guys were all pretty cool.
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MOTL: Whoever said "Don't argue with idiots; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience," wasn't joking.
Evilkin
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« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2004, 12:56:10 pm »

Quote
I drop my FoW on the table like it was an accident. He sees it, and I don't know if he thinks I didn't know he saw it, but he says "I think I'll stick with my original plan and let the Angel resolve."


Quote
I don't think it's immoral which is equally important, I'm utilizing everything I have to the best of my ability to try to gain an advantage (without cheating of course).


I think being able to bluff and get into the head of your opponent and advocate how the game is going to be played is one of the more fun elements.

I don't think there is anything wrong with what you did here.  I have done many simular things myself.

eg. 1)  I say,  "Geez, I'd be toast if you drop a Goblin Warchief right about now",  and I'm thinking to myself... (Cool if he actually drops this and taps out I'll be able to Stifle his Tormod's Crypt and he won't be able to REB my Stifle).  This worked and got me first in this tournament.

eg. 2)  I say,"If I have a Duress and you have a Cunning Wish in your hand,  you could respond to my Duress by grabbing an Instant, but you'd still lose that card anyways right?"  He looks at me very shocked and says "yes".  I go,  "I play Cabal Therapy, any responses?"  He stalls for a while and then decides not to respond.  I name Cunning Wish and he discards it.  Funny thing here is I didn't know he had one in his hand before all that and he still could have probably wished for a Coffin Purge as he had 3 blue mana open.   In this match I was playing Dragon vs Hulk and this play in game 3 was probably the difference in top 4 for me going on to split for 1st in this tournament as well.
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Machinus
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« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2004, 01:30:31 pm »

Magic is a card game. Card games involve bluffing. Theory purists don't win tournaments.

It is the responsibility of ANY STRATEGIST to make the best judgment he can based on the information he has. If you provide him with false information and he buys it, you have won a single intelligence battle. While this can buy you games, matches, or a place in the T8, the next time you face those opponents you will find that your tactics have become obsolete. Be mindful of the strategies you employ, as bluffing can betray your position just as easily as it can fool your opponent.

That being said, all mind games are fair game. Developing your force sensitivity is a crucial aspect of your play skill. Consisting the majority of players, the weak minded respond well to Jedi mind tricks; but remember that the counter-intelligence battle may always be a level deeper than you are aware of. A good player will spring your own trap on you and win.
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2004, 04:25:39 pm »

Bluffing is fine, and you're allowed to say whatever you want as long as you don't misrepresent the game state (except for anything that violates the unsportsmalike conduct rules, like swearing), but you aren't allowed to reveal cards from your hand, even by accident. Likewise, you can't show your opponent any cards in your sideboard at any time. Obviously, there are cards that make exceptions to this (like Peek, or Mindslaver+Wish), but you can't voluntarily reveal cards your opponent wouldn't otherwise be able to look at.
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« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2004, 07:10:25 pm »

Thank you Jacob.  My friends and I are pretty loose about the, "oh this fell out of my hand", but thast casual play, not tourney.  My advice is talk mad smack and don't show shit.
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Bulls on Parade
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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2004, 08:00:41 pm »

Quote from: Jacob Orlove
<Jacob's post>


Thanks, but I know the rules. Saying you aren't allowed to do something by accident, however, makes flat out zero sense. What I was hoping to gain was insight into what a judge would do- would it be a case by case basis? I certainly don't want to keep making a play that would be looked down upon by a judge, and this seems like the likely case.
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2004, 08:08:26 pm »

I can't speak for every judge, but the standard procedure for any kind of accidental infraction should be to issue a warning/caution/whatever is warranted, for two reasons. One, it is the player's responsibility to avoid accidents, and two, letting players talk down the penalties opens up the doors for cheaters to do the same, by claiming it was "just an accident" and gaining an in-game advantage.

If the judge had reason to believe that you were actually cheating (which you are), then the penalties would be much more severe. Cheating is bad.
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Jebus
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« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2004, 12:53:15 am »

There's actually nothing preventing you from revealing your hand to your opponent.

Technically what you did isn't illegal, but I normally frown upon such play.

Quote
I'm done with my turn, but the Judge walks by and I ask him if what I'd just heard was actually the 5 turn announcement, and he says yes. Back into the game, I look at my opponent and tell him it's his turn. The judge declares that means its turn 1/5. I don't know if I can clearly convey my point in text right now, but everyone agreed that I screwed myself out of a win by not trying to argue with the Judge. I could have still done it in the turns I had if I hadn't made a play error, so I didn't even try to argue it.


What exactly are you arguing here?  If time was called on your turn, then you are turn 0 of 5.  Your opponent will have turn 1, and so on.
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« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2004, 09:45:10 am »

@ Jebus - It was because he had already passed the turn and then asked, the judge may have been right if it had been called a while ago, but I can see John's frustration as his opponent was playing slow and from what I've heard from everyone that went up with him, the one extra turn would have been a win.

Anyways, I do not work in a sweat shop, and if I was unreliable I wouldn't have gone to work now would I.  Sad  Anyways I'm glad you talked everyone into going since Rob and Chris both made top 8  and Chamberlin just missed it, probably because he played Chris and lost. Some of those "Academic Study Association" girls were hot, you should have just kicked the ugly ones out and left the good ones in the pool. I could have waited  Cool O and I think you made a major misplay against that PT Cruiser, you should have pulled it over, beat the shit out of it with a baseball bat and then dropped it into the pits of hell...or just have given the old lady the bird, that would have been good to.
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« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2004, 09:56:43 am »

Quote from: Plainswalker
@ Jebus - It was because he had already passed the turn and then asked, the judge may have been right if it had been called a while ago, but I can see John's frustration as his opponent was playing slow and from what I've heard from everyone that went up with him, the one extra turn would have been a win.


From what he wrote, he sounds as if he confirmed that time was called while it was his turn.  Since he was the active player when time was called, he is turn 0.

If you suspect an opponent is stalling, call a judge.  There isn't much we can do after the fact.
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Charles Manson
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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2004, 02:29:21 pm »

Whereabouts from Maine are you from, I used to live up there. I use to live in Brunswick and attended J & R Comics regularly. Are you familiar with the Brunswick area, if so I might know you, and that would be cool. Wink
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Gandalf_The_White_1
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« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2004, 12:34:39 am »

FTK and REB just pwn madness.  They may as well scoop games 2 and 3.  It really does sound like that guy was stalling and if my opponent appeared to be stalling I might be inclined to remind him that it is his turn- that's what I would have said to the judge.

Dude, wtf is up with all of the play errors?  Is there any explanation (other than lack of sleep which is quite pathetic (2 hours dude!!)) for this?  Were you just kinda "off," or perhaps high on illegal substances?
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