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Nachtfrost
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« on: April 30, 2004, 10:29:55 am » |
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I am playing in a meta full of aggro (mainly slight, ww and even some ancient necro-decks) with almost no control or combo. Therefore i tried to develop a Tog deck with a maximum combo touch and it has been working well so far, but i still lose to SuiBlack and some curious pox builds because they manage to destroy enough hand and land to leave me helpless on the table. So here is my build:
5 Fetchland 4 Underground Sea 2 Volcanic Island 4 Tropicial Island 1 Island 5 Moxen 1 Black Lotus 1 Sol Ring 1 Mana Crypt
3 Tog 3 Berserk
3 Intuition 4 Accumulated Knowledge 4 Brainstorm 1 Fact or Fiction 1 Gush
4 Mana Drain 4 Force of Will
3 Pernicious Deed 1 Mind Twist 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Time Walk 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Yawgmoth's Will 1 Mystical Tutor
The sideboard varies, but since i don't use wishes any more i am not dependent on instants.
Unusual choices are for sure the 3 berserk main and the lack of duress. If you have to fight against discard and land destruction, a double berserk allows you to win with only 3 cards discarded and it is much faster than any other build. Along with pernicious deed and tog, all important cards are tutorable via intuition. The deck can win around turn 3 and 4 in goldfish mode, but in a real game you will almost always have to clear the board with a deed first and it takes some turns more.
Duress is not needed, since there are no targets. I also tried compost and sacred ground to fight those pesky black decks, but they turned out to be too situational since i also play against other decks where they aren't useful at all.
My question is: How can i make the build even more comboish, since combo wins against aggro (plainly said)? At the moment i have no idea how to increase consistency or speed of the build. Any suggestions?
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monstre
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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2004, 12:48:45 am » |
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So you're in field full of aggro and want to make tog more comboish ? Why you look like the perfect guinea p... err candidate for the silly oathatog plan I posted about here. Would you pass on this unique opportunity to show the world the power of Defy Gravity ?
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jpmeyer
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« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2004, 12:53:33 am » |
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Yeah, but Cunning Wish/Berserk is still way enough to beat aggro. Aggro is already way your easiest matchup so you really shouldn't have to do more against it. I can't remember the last time that I lost to an aggro deck with Tog.
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Team Meandeck: "As much as I am a clueless, credit-stealing, cheating homo I do think we would do well to consider the current stage of the Vintage community." -Smmenen
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Grand Inquisitor
Always the play, never the thing
Adepts
Basic User
   
Posts: 1476
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« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2004, 03:36:12 pm » |
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Yeah, the key to suicide is to keep your draw engine going. I.e. keep closer to the standard builds that run maindeck deep analysis. This should nullify the effect of their discard, and allow you to keep drawing into more land.
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There is not a single argument in your post. Just statements that have no meaning. - Guli
It's pretty awesome that I did that - Smmenen
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Nachtfrost
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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2004, 10:05:49 am » |
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So everyone tells me Aggro is the easiest matchup for tog, and until last week (i purchased a full set of Power 9) i really had no trouble beating it, but now with my 4 fire/ice main gone and equipped with the most expensive cards of the entire game, the deck gets crushed time after time. Does is play so differently in comparison to budget tog???
Regarding Sui/Pox: How should i do anything without having mana? Only 1 or 2 moxen remain on the table once they start their wasteland/sinkhole/rain of tears/pox/ankh of mishra-play. I can't even play something to fetch Ancestral or some AK. I start to think that my P9 were a waste of money, since the old deck worked way better in my metagame. Frustrating, after all the years as a budget player, to see how your deck gets worse by the addition of those ultra-expensive cards.
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Jacob Orlove
Official Time Traveller of TMD
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Posts: 8074
When am I?
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« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2004, 10:38:11 am » |
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Let's compare your deck to Smmenen's latest build: SmmenenAtog aka The Best Damned Deck in the Land By Stephen Menendian
5 Fetchland 4 Underground Sea 3 Volcanic Island 2 Tropicial Island 2 Island 1 Library of Alexandria.
5 Moxen 1 Lotus 1 Mana Crypt
TOTAL: 24 Mana Sources.
Spells:
3 Tog
Draw: 3 Intuition 4 Accumulated Knowledge 4 Brainstorm 2 Deep Analysis
4 Mana Drain 4 Force of Will 2 Duress
3 Cunning Wish 1 Mind Twist 1 Pernicious Deed 1 Gorilla Shaman 1 Ancestral 1 Time Walk 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Yawgmoth's Will
SB: 2 Blue Elemental Blast 1 Firestorm 2 Purges 2 Shamans 1 Artifact Mutation 1 Rack and Ruin 3 Red Elemental Blast 1 Berserk 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Fact or Fiction By cutting down to 1 deed, and running 3 MD wishes over the berserks, he not only gets more card drawing, but greatly increased flexibility. Tog doesn't want to see an opening hand with Berserk and Deed--it wants to see an opening hand with card drawing and Cunning Wish.
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Team Meandeck: O Lord, Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile. To those who slander me, let me give no heed. May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
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Apollyon
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« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2004, 11:04:33 am » |
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What you need to do is play AggroWelder.dec. Their Negators are no match for your 7/10 and their Hyppies and Pups are no match for your Pentavuses, Triskelions, or Juggernauts.
To build said deck: Step 1) Send all your Power to me. Step 2) Buy a playset of Workshops. Step 3) Send all your Workshops to me. Step 4) Buy a playset of Welders. Step 5) Buy Sundering Titans, Pentavuses, Triskelions, Juggernauts, etc. to taste. Step 6) Smash face.
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jpmeyer
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« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2004, 12:11:54 pm » |
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You could just take Smmenen's deck and cut the Gorilla Shaman for a Tog and the 2 Deep Analysis for a FoF and Gush and you will mad, mad pwn aggro even more than is necessary.
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Team Meandeck: "As much as I am a clueless, credit-stealing, cheating homo I do think we would do well to consider the current stage of the Vintage community." -Smmenen
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Nachtfrost
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2004, 10:25:55 am » |
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Thanks, at least i will give the 3 wish configuration another try. I think i slowly get the idea of how to play with power and 2 maindeck teferi's response :lol: . 4th tog added, but not proven yet since i had no time to play. I think we could close this thread now, thank you very much for your help!
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