[Deck] tweaking EBA

[Spizzard]

For the moment I'm playtesting 4 Standstill with factories (could be DoJ).

If you start testing EBA with Factories and DoJ, I think you'd seriously be better playing Landstill.  Sure, there may be a little synergy with Face down + standstill, but from that point, you've really already won.

I played EBA ~ 6 months ago for quite a long time, and became familiar with the deck.  I was running Ophidians, which have greatly fallen out of style, and for reasons that are quite apparent.  But what I don't quite understand, is how Skeletal Scrying fully replaces Ophidian.  The life loss hurts very little once you have an angel, so thats of little importance.  But having a large enough X to get a great benefit out of it just often isn't there.  Most lists I see only are running ~ 24 land, which is fine while you are not running the full compliment of Wastes + strips.  But you are still not going to have enough to get a great boost out of scrying.  However, due to lack of better options, it may be the best fit.  Has anyone tried running SoLoMoxen + Crypt, then playing Thirst for Knowledge?  Thirst might be a nice fit considering most lists run maindeck Dampning Matrix, which will be dead against some decks.

Maindeck Vindicate ~ I ran the one Vinidcate maindeck, which a few people are doing.  However, I also ran Wastes + Strip which often made the Vindicate another Land-d spell.  If you are not running Cunning WIshes, the one Vindicate is very necessary even if you are not Cunning Wish.

Maindeck StP's ~ I strongly feel that one or two are necessary, with the remaining in the SB.  The current environment is full of creatures.  Combo seems to be making little showing and StP's often have a valid target.  Whether and opposing angel or welder.  It may not fit the theme the best, but it is necessary in situations where Meddling Mage is not effective and against the aggro matchup.  Angel can't always race quick fat... or any fat.  And there will be time when Angel doesn't come out fast enough.   Something to fall back on for these situations is great.

Maindeck Wishes ~ I tested wishes and they just don't fit the theme of EBA.  If you have a threat that you need to wish an anwser for, barring Drain Mana, it is often too slow.  Playing in this Aggro-control deck, wish is reactive, where this is a primarily proactive deck, which is why it differs from keeper/Germbus.


Here's my list I will be testing:

Mana ~ 25
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
4 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Flooded Strand
3 Wasteland
1 Strip mine
1 Library of Alexandria
5 SoLoMoxen (On Color)
1 Mana Crypt

Creatures ~ 7
4 Meddling Mage
3 Exalted Angel

Draw ~ 9
4 Brainstorm
3 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Ancestral Recall

Restricted Goodness ~ 5
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mind Twist
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Answers ~ 14
3 Duress
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Vindicate
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Dampning Matrix

Sideboard ~ 15
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Dampning Matrix
1 Balance
3 Energy Flux
2 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Deep Analysis
1 Exalted Angel

(The sideboard obviously needs work)

[xrizzo]

After some playtesting I have to share my thoughts with you, I'm quite sure at least one of you won't agree with me.

Draw
The deck really didn't have enough draw spells. Dropping a Meddling Mage naming Accumulated Knowledge or Thirst for Knowledge would be good, but then I want to name welder. Control Slavery has so much more card drawing that they almost always seemed to draw into that Fire/Ice for the Meddling Mage, and even though they only plays circa 2 Cunning Wish they drew so many cards that they always could wish for a Mogg Salvage for my Damping Matrix. For the moment I'm playtesting 4 Standstill with factories (could be DoJ).

Of course I agree with your removal point, but I also agree the deck needs more draw.  3x Skeletal MD and 1x SB is good, but there are many times where you don't have access to it.  I run 3x tutors to help get my draw more often: Demonic, Vampiric, and Mystical.  I also have wishes available for Scrying, AK, and FoF.  With all that draw power, I still need at least one more draw spell, but I don'y know which direction to look just yet.

If you start testing EBA with Factories and DoJ, I think you'd seriously be better playing Landstill. Sure, there may be a little synergy with Face down + standstill, but from that point, you've really already won.

Incorporating Standstill requires building the deck around it more.  This deck doesn't want more non basics, and should recognize the LandStill matchup is just slightly easier due to DoJ inclusion.  

I played EBA ~ 6 months ago for quite a long time, and became familiar with the deck. I was running Ophidians, which have greatly fallen out of style, and for reasons that are quite apparent. But what I don't quite understand, is how Skeletal Scrying fully replaces Ophidian. The life loss hurts very little once you have an angel, so thats of little importance. But having a large enough X to get a great benefit out of it just often isn't there. Most lists I see only are running ~ 24 land, which is fine while you are not running the full compliment of Wastes + strips. But you are still not going to have enough to get a great boost out of scrying. However, due to lack of better options, it may be the best fit. Has anyone tried running SoLoMoxen + Crypt, then playing Thirst for Knowledge? Thirst might be a nice fit considering most lists run maindeck Dampning Matrix, which will be dead against some decks.

Thirst is an interesting suggestion, and would work well with the theme of removing cards in the yard for scrying...

I actually haven't had many troubles getting cards in the yard to remove, in addition to 6 fetchlands, I have 3 tutors, and 3 Stp.  This means that you almost always have 1-2 cards in the yard in the first couple turns.  Don't be afraid to remove ancestral either, (if you run Cwish) because you can wish for it in a couple turns anyway.

I will look into running thirst, but it probably distorts the deck too much to include it.  Again, I am looking for maybe one or two more draw spells, and to modify the whole deck to run thirsts doesn't seem practical.

Maindeck Vindicate ~ I ran the one Vinidcate maindeck, which a few people are doing. However, I also ran Wastes + Strip which often made the Vindicate another Land-d spell. If you are not running Cunning WIshes, the one Vindicate is very necessary even if you are not Cunning Wish.

The LD route for this deck is a bad idea - it didn't work for keeper, and I don't think it works here without Mox Monkey.  Vindicate looks so good on paper, but it is too unweildly.  If it were instant, it would be played, but as a sorcery, it just doesn't cut it.

Maindeck StP's ~ I strongly feel that one or two are necessary, with the remaining in the SB. The current environment is full of creatures. Combo seems to be making little showing and StP's often have a valid target. Whether and opposing angel or welder. It may not fit the theme the best, but it is necessary in situations where Meddling Mage is not effective and against the aggro matchup. Angel can't always race quick fat... or any fat. And there will be time when Angel doesn't come out fast enough. Something to fall back on for these situations is great.

Maindeck Wishes ~ I tested wishes and they just don't fit the theme of EBA. If you have a threat that you need to wish an anwser for, barring Drain Mana, it is often too slow. Playing in this Aggro-control deck, wish is reactive, where this is a primarily proactive deck, which is why it differs from keeper/Germbus.

2 MD Stp should be mandatory, and the 3rd is player preference.

My build is some sort of hybrid between the two, so I actually use my drain mana to accelerate into scryings, wishes, and angels.  I don't run the mages, so the wishes give me the reactive flexibility mage doesn't give you.  (especially when they are dropping turn 1 threats that mage can't deal with)

[Arvid]

If you start testing EBA with Factories and DoJ, I think you'd seriously be better playing Landstill.  Sure, there may be a little synergy with Face down + standstill, but from that point, you've really already won.

The thing is that I can't find another good card drawer except Standstill. I already play with 3x Skeletal Scrying and 4x Brainstorm. I'm playing the factories (I'm not playing DoJ) not because I think they're exceptional, but merely because I need something that will make that Standstill fetch me 3 cards.

For the moment I have cut 4 Wasteland and 1 Stripmine, because I color fizzled too often with both factories and a full set of waste/strip (10 colorless lands with LoA).

[Gabethebabe]

I think some people are focusing too much on the "drawing engine" of EBA.

People never complain that Sligh doesn´t draw cards. Why not? Because they understand that Sligh doesn´t win through drawing cards.

Maybe you should start understanding that EBA is aggro-control, between Keeper and Sligh. You are disrupting your opponent´s plan with strips, Mages and Duress, you drop a threat and go for the throat. Oh, you have some counterspells available, just in case.

That´s why IMO you should have Negators in the SB. Against control your game plan is not outcontrolling them (though this will happen on occasions), but to kill them before they gain control.

An example from a recent tourny: I had played a face-down angel against Tog. This means my opponent didn´t have countermagic. I drew Demonic. I could Demonic for Ancestral or Mind Twist and gain card advantage. I didn´t do that. I Tutored for white mana (a Lotus), flipped the Angel up and started beating. He died one turn before deeding for 6.

[wuaffiliate]

Maybe you should start understanding that Suicide Black is aggro-control, between Keeper and Sligh. You are disrupting your opponent´s plan with strips, hymns and Duress, you drop a threat and go for the throat. Oh, you have some Null Rods available, just in case.

[Arvid]

Incorporating Standstill requires building the deck around it more.  

Incorporating Standstill only requires cutting 4 Wasteland for 4 Mishra's Factory. Problem may occur when facing an aggro deck putting a threat into play turn 1, but if you started you should have mana open for StP, or you could just FoW it for a safe 2nd turn Standstill.

Incorporating Thirst for Knowledge in the deck requires adding Mana Crypt and maybe the last (or last two) Damping Matrix; In addition to this I think it requires you to play 2 Deep Analysis maindeck. This is a very interesting idea, though, and I would like to know more about it! After all, it digs three cards deep and offers more card drawing that the Standstill engine if you incorporate it with DA.

[Rico Suave]

People never complain that Sligh doesn´t draw cards. Why not? Because they understand that Sligh doesn´t win through drawing cards.

You can't be serious.  

Sligh doesn't win because it doesn't draw cards.

An example from a recent tourny: I had played a face-down angel against Tog. This means my opponent didn´t have countermagic. I drew Demonic. I could Demonic for Ancestral or Mind Twist and gain card advantage. I didn´t do that. I Tutored for white mana (a Lotus), flipped the Angel up and started beating. He died one turn before deeding for 6.

You know, you could have Ancestraled into a white source, Force, blue card and gotten an even better effect. ;)

The reason I don't see EBA as an aggro-control deck is because Keeper can do the exact same "aggro" play there, but I don't call it an aggro-control deck.  It's a control deck.  Perhaps you can tell me how 2cc 2/2 beatdown suddenly makes this deck aggro.