workshop and daze question?

[slighguy]

Ok this came up at a tourny the other day when I was playing landstill against a workshop deck(slaver i think..).Well he tapped 2 workshops to play memory jar and i countered with a daze and said that he can use the 1 extra workshop mana to counter the daze effect since daze says pay an extra which the judge ruled that this works cause the card says pay which he said was an extra to the casting cost and in my opinion that judge was wrond but i just wanted to know cause thats what is was ruled.
                             thanks
                                   slighguy.

ps. I know it doesnt work but i just wanted to know your answers.

[ProZachar]

You can't use the Workshop mana to satisfy the Daze.  Daze asks for a mana payment during its resolution, at which point the play cost of the Jar has long since been decided on and paid.

You can, however, use Workshop mana to pay for additional costs.  So, if he controls a Sphere of Resistance and plays Jar, the mana from 2 Workshops will pay for it exactly.

[Dante]

Just to clarify, it's not that the Jar has been paid for already, since he still has 1 mana floating from tapping both Workshops, it's that Daze requires you to pay 1, but the 1 from the Workshop can only be used to pay for artifacts (not the Daze).

Contrast this to Sphere of Resistance, whose Oracle text is "Spells cost more to play".  Because this affects the casting cost of a spell (not just "Pay 1 or counter this spell"), the artifacts actually cost 1 more and workshop mana can be used.

Bill

[DEA]

the oracle text for mw states it very clearly
it uses the example of nether void and powersink
no can do

[Dante]

the oracle text for mw states it very clearly
it uses the example of nether void and powersink
no can do

Yes and Daze falls in this category too.  These are all "pay X or it gets countered" - but that's not part of the cost of playing the spell (which is what sphere of resistance affects).

However if you are trying to say that you cannot pay the extra 1 for Sphere of Resistance with MW mana, you're incorrect.  You CAN pay for sphere of resistance costs using Mishra's Workshop - it just adds 1 to the CC of the artifact, not impose a separate "pay X or counter spell" cost.  

so to clarify, with a Sphere of Resistance in play, you can tap 2 Mishra's Workshops for 6 mana and cast a Memory Jar.  If you don't believe me, have Jebus or another judge confirm for you.

[Jebus]

To confirm, you can't use MW Mana to pay for things like Nether Void, Daze, or Mana Leak.

You can use MW Mana to pay additoinal costs for the artifact, such as those imposed by Sphere of Resistance, or Trinisphere.

[DEA]

dante, my comment was actually directed at slighguy
basically, the oracle text would have answered both of his questions

This mana may be used on costs which are added to the spell cost, such as with Sphere of Resistance or Kicker (see Rule 502.21). [Rules Team 2001/05/01]
This mana may not be used to pay costs imposed after the spell is initially played, as with Power Sink and Nether Void. [WotC Rules Team 1995/10/18]
You can spend the mana on costs on the spell's text. [WotC Rules Team 1995/11/10]

yea

[Jebus]

Just another note.

That isn't Oracle text.

Those are compiled rulings.

[DEA]

*pauses*

ah, ok  

[Shikari]

kekekekeee....

[Matt]

Questions answered, this thread has devolved. This is not a chat room![/color]