Crucible.dec

[Wudil]

First of all, I wanted to give a new direction to what Calibus was working on in order to help him getting a better build (as a friend of mine is working for several weeks on his build which is more and more competitive), Prison-like which mean part of lock, not Combo engine as you're thinking...

You're also comparing what is not comparable with Suicide Black and such a build (I didn't even told what he is currently playing), so I don't see where this could help.

On the other hand, I shall admit that such a post should be more in the newbie forum more than in the Open Type1 one.

I'm sorry Kowal and all TMD community if I didn't help you at all by posting garbage (as I intentionnaly didn't tell the cards which my friend is currently running in his build), next time we'll keep it for ourselves till it can make results, this is understandable. Sorry again.

[Calibus]

In your latest version, you failed to put 4x force of will...

How could you forget this? I can see you tried including the proposed blue standard cards, but everything is there except force of will.

Well, I actually was trying it with Force of Will at first but there are a few issues.  First, there is not a whole lot of blue in the deck as is, and you really don't want to toss Brainstorms.  Second, Force of Will and Trinisphere is some bad.  I can Duess for one mana and make sure the way is clear before casting what I need to resolve.  It gives me more information to work with.

JD

[theorigamist]

Second, Force of Will and Trinisphere is some bad. I can Duess for one mana and make sure the way is clear before casting what I need to resolve.

So, wait, Duress w/Trinisphere > FoW w/Trinisphere?  I don't get it.

I agree that Duress gives you more information, but at the cost of actually protecting yourself.  Brainstorms/Card drawing/insane topdecking get around Duress, but not Force of Will.

[Jebus]

Second, Force of Will and Trinisphere is some bad. I can Duess for one mana and make sure the way is clear before casting what I need to resolve.

So, wait, Duress w/Trinisphere > FoW w/Trinisphere?  I don't get it.

I agree that Duress gives you more information, but at the cost of actually protecting yourself.  Brainstorms/Card drawing/insane topdecking get around Duress, but not Force of Will.

I think what he means is...

He can play Duress for one before dropping the Sphere.

With FoW, you'd have to keep 3 mana open so you can pay for your FoW under Sphere.

[Calibus]

1)  Jaypee mentioned this concept is basically unplayable, because trying to build a combo engine off this card is just not strong, at all.  The disruption element bogs down in the face of basics, and completely stalls out against moxen.  Also, like Suicide Black, you scoop to threats.

There is this card called Pernicious Deed which tends to handle threats okay.

2)  Some people have this urge to 'innovate' by trying to break ideas the popular personalities have declared to be complete garbage.  While your intent to 'innovate' is a good thing, the concept needs a lot of work and is really nowhere near the state of development it should be in to be a presence in the open forums.  A thread of this nature should be in Newbie, not Open.

Why would I want to post this in a Newbie thread.  I posted in Open so that I can get opinions from people on what can be done with it.  Maybe it is absolute garbage and should be scrapped.  Maybe not.  Bottom line is, by hearing other opinions, I can play around with it and find out if it will work.  How will opinions from "Newbies" possibly help me.  I want opinions from people that have been playing a while to combine with my knowledge of the game and the format.

You are making an assumption that because I don't choose to post a lot that I am new to Magic and/or Type 1.  I am neither.  Deckbuilding however, is definately not one of my better Magic skills.  I do like to mess with it from time to time and if I do, who are you to say where I should post it.  Frankly, I was more put off by the condescending note of your post then anything else.

JD

[Calibus]

perhaps you could put the strip mine in sidebord and pack 4x living wish, essentially making it a 4x strip mine in the deck.

Well it currently does have 4 Strip Mines in the main deck.  Strip Mine, Crop Rotation, Demonic Tutor, and Vampiric Tutor.  That is part of the reason for having 4 Crucibles and 4 Trinispheres.  I don't want to tutor for those if possible.

This deck gets totally killed by graveyard hate and blood moon. Both are common sidebord strategies. Try and find a solution to this..

Agreed.  I am still working on that issue.

JD

[Erdrick]

Here, instead of just listing cards to add to this deck let me present a decklist.

Ug CoW (Combo/Control)

Land (24)
1 [card]Strip Mine[/card]
4 [card]Wasteland[/card]
4 [card]Mishras Factory[/card]
4 [card]Tropical Island[/card]
4 [card]Island[/card]
2 [card]Flooded Strand[/card]
2 [card]Polluted Delta[/card]
2 [card]City of Traitors[/card]
1 [card]Library of Alexandria[/card]

Blue (24)
4 [card]Force of Will[/card]
4 [card]Mana Drain[/card]
4 [card]Brainstorm[/card]
4 [card]Accumulated Knowledge[/card]
4 [card]Intuition[/card]
1 [card]Ancestral Recall[/card]
1 [card]Time Walk[/card]
1 [card]Tinker[/card]
1 [card]Chain of Vapor[/card]

Green (5)
3 [card]Exploration[/card]
1 [card]Fastbond[/card]
1 [card]Crop Rotation[/card]

Artifact (7)
4 [card]Crucible of Worlds[/card]
3 [card]Null Rod[/card]

Between the CoW/Strip Combo and the Null Rods the opponent should not be able to cast much of anything.

[Calibus]

Erdrick:

That is actually pretty close how it looks now.  I have removed the black entirely and went with the green and blue.  The problem is still the inability to remove anything on the board such as Goblin Welder.  I didn't have Chain in but it seems like a good idea.  I still think that there needs to be board sweeping ability or at least some targeted removal for utility creatures.

Against, something like Slaver, even Null Rod doesn't help against a Pentavus or two on the board because they are such big beaters.  You could continuously block with Factory but to kill it you would need 3 Factories.  Two activated and one to pump (Null Rod means they can't pump themselves).

I think Chain may be able to cut it but maybe more copies are needed.  Anyways, thanks for your thoughts.  You thought of some things I didn't think of.

JD

[Wudil]

While you added Fastbond/Explo, why not adding Horn of Greed as your main drawing engine, this is "synergetic" with your "combo" CoW+Strip and this is way more easier to draw when you want with the CoW on the board.
You just have to put in the Horn of Greed and add some more lands in order to maximize its effect, lands like Petrfied Field could be good if you don't get CoW on the board in order to get back Strips but  also Workshops.

As you removed black from your build (and Pernicious Deed as a mass removal with it)  why not adding an artifact that can take care of permanents? Won't say Smockestack could be really good in such a build where you would run so many permanents.
(Blood Moon is still a bad threat you have to take care here as your Strips and kill would be ineffective...)

I think I've already told you more than I had to but I hope at least this will help you much to reach a competitive build.

[Toad]

Too many people have been spamming this thread with decklists and untested ideas. Just do some playtests and come back later, because this thread is not productive at all.
Thread closed.

-- Toad