Version 2.0

[Ben Kossman]

I think this deck, "tested" or not, is pretty busted.  Feel free to try to explain why it's not...

Kill:6
2 Tendrils of Agony
4 Disciple of the Vault

Combo:14
4 Myr Retriever
4 Krark Clan Ironworks
4 Second Sunrise
1 Mind's Desire
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain

Disruption:8
4 Chalice of The Void
4 Duress

Search:10
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Spoils of The Vault

Mana:22
4 Gilded Lotus
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
5 Moxen
1 Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
4 Chromatic Sphere

So basically you get 2 Retrievers and the Ironworks setting up an infinite loop to fuel either Mind's Desire or Tendrils. I'm gonna test the hell out of this because I beleive this deck to insanely busted. With Second Sunrise and the Ironworks you can produce like 20+ mana in a hurry but you won't even get the chance to use it most games because Disciple's already killed them. It would be nice to get something besides criticism but I'm not holding my breath. Anyway, I'm sure one of ya'll can do an infinitely better job than me so fire away...

Syntax fixed.
- Kowal[/color]

[Kasuras]

First of all, I believe this deck is already being discussed in this thread:

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17560

But let's get just pretend that thread doesn't exist.


I have tested a deck like this one too and came to the conclusion it's not very good.

First of all, the deck works exactly the same as the aluren deck: have a recurring creature and a way to get it into play for free.

However, the aluren deck doesn't stop when null rod hits play and this deck does.

Of course you have disciple of the vault and more recurring in the form of second sunrise, but I don't believe that is enough. The deck has a chance of comboing in turn three I guess: but by then, a null rod could be played, the opponent has enough for a mana drain _and_ a swords to plowshares and so on.

Don't get me wrong, I like the deck but it just won't be very good in this form.

[AngryPheldagrif]

3 things;

#1: How is this 4 card combo better than comboing out with draw7 or TPS?

#1.5: How is this better than comboing out with Aluren?

#2: If you kill with Tendrils, I'd think Workshop would be a no-no with the mana requirement.

#3: Why not just use good old Ashnod's Alter if you combo out w/creatures? It's cheeper and you have nothing that you'd need the mana for. Other than Disciple, which doesn't seem likely without the combo, there's little effective difference.

#4: Why the Chalices? You can't Chalice for 2, which is usually the best number to shut down artifact hate and Drain, and Chalice for 1 shuts down a bunch of your Tutors and Disiple. These would be much better as some counters or something.

#5: Realistically, what does your deck do against artifact hate? You have no maindeck way to remove Null Rod/Damping Matrix (aside from the Duresses).

#6: Your mana base is hideous. You rely almost completely on the Gilded Lotus, a 5 mana card vulnerable to Null Rod and other hate, for your colored mana. You're just asking for a Mana Drain.

#7: Why not Brain Freeze? Other than the extremely rare Gaea's Blessing, this card kills for half the mana of Tendrils, and a third the mana of Desire, not even to mention the single colored mana.

In summary, this deck seems to play with the desperation of Belcher, the win style of Aluren, and the disruptiblility of MaskNought. Having the weaknesses of a ton of failed combo decks is not a recipe for success. Feel free to rebuild with a more secure, focused build. Some bare minimum suggestions I would make would be:

-4 Chalice of the Void (not efficient)
-4 Second Sunrise (no real point)
-4 Gilded Lotus (not enough 'real' mana)
-4 Mishra's Workshop (fairly useless w/o the Lotuses)
-1 Library of Alexandria (no point, this is supposed to go fast)

+1 Mystical Tutor (finds your other tutors)
+2 Brain Freeze (another win condition)
+2 Arcbound Ravager (another win condition, esp. with the Disciples)
+4 Underground Sea (Solid mana)
+4 Polluted Delta (solid mana fetcher)
+1 Timetwister (hand refill, as well as reclaiming destroyed combo pieces)
+3 Impulse (decent draw)

That's all rough sketching, do whatever you think is best.

-Dan