Voyager Episode Trading

[rvs]

So.... after watching the new Enterprise season 1-3 (can't wait for nr4 in september!), I decided to start collecting / downloading episodes of the only other star trek series I care about (okay fine, the picard series has some ok ones). Voyager rules all

So, right now, I have
Season 1: 1,2, 9-16,
Season 3: 1, 14,
Season 4: 1, 2, 5, 8, 12, 14, 15, 16, 21, 26
Season 6: Complete
Season 7: Complete

I'm halfway for Season 1, nr5. So, anyone has any I don't have to share / trade?

[Dr. Sylvan]

I have about half of all VOY episodes, but I need to get ready for work so I will edit/post what exactly I have later.

You should also note that I have about 173/176 of the FAR SUPERIOR Deep Space Nine episodes. ;)

[Eddie]

Rudy, I have all Voyager episodes. That and all of TNG, enterprise season 1 - 3 and DS9 season 1 - 3. I stopped collecting them cause I can't find the time to watch them all. And my HD is still filled with episodes. I can't even find the time to burn them all (20 GB to go)...

Drop me a message. I can bring some to a tournament if you want...

[rvs]

Just to be totally clear on this: I only want top quality recordings / rips. No half-assed videotaped BS. So make sure your shit is good

[Dr. Sylvan]

Rudy, I have all Voyager episodes. That and all of TNG, enterprise season 1 - 3 and DS9 season 1 - 3.

One-upped again. I clearly need to work harder at being a nerd.

[Magi]

You should also note that I have about 173/176 of the FAR SUPERIOR Deep Space Nine episodes.

I disagree...if you were to get Voyager and DS9 crews into a fight, the Voyager crew would emerge victorious.


Let's start with the vessels:

DS9 VS Voyager - To make it fair, we would have to give Voyager the super Borg armour. Nanoprobe technology wins this battle. I'm not even considering the Defiant, maybe against the Delta flyer.

Voyager 1, DS9 0

Sisko VS Janeway - Sisko throws a baseball at Janeway, Janeway dodges and unleashes her super PMS powers and takes out Sisko in a 50hit super combo finish.

Voyager 2, DS9 0

Kira VS Chakotay - Kira looks lethal, especially in a tight silver suit. I never liked Chakotay, he can rot. Probably the worst second in command ever in a Star Trek series.

Voyager 2, DS9 1

Worf VS B'Elanna - I know Worf is all battle hardened and stuff, but B'Elanna looks like she can get pretty vicious. I'll have to give this one to Worf, but only because he can squaredance

Voyager 2, DS9 2

Julian Bashir VS The Doctor

Mere genetic enchancements are no match for a state of the art Hologram.

V 3, D 2 (getting lazy here)

Jadzia VS 7 of 9

Let's throw Ezri in there for a triple threat mud wrestling match. EVERYONE WINS!

Tuvok VS Odo

Vulcan nerve pinch owns all (actually, I'm unsure if the VNP works on blobs, I'll just give it the benefit of the doubt)

V 4 D 2

Quark VS Neelix

I'll have to give this one to Quark because he'll probably be more ruthless in a fight.

V 4 D 3

who's left....

Miles, Rom and that pussy Jake VS Harry and Tom - I scooped them all together for lack of better matchups. Once Miles is gone, Rom and Jake will bend over like the little prisoners they are. To be fair, Harry would probably go down in this fight, leaving Tom to "reap" the rewards.

Everyone else sucks.

As you can see, Voyager would own DS9.

[Dr. Sylvan]

I refuse to even dignify that with a substantive response. You are clearly in denial. :)

[rvs]

DS9 is a little too boring for my liking. I just got a PM from Eddie that most of his episodes are like only 120mb. That's pretty bad I'd say. Most of mine exceed 200 easily. My enterprise ones (which are pretty good quality, I'll admit) are like 350+. So um... Sylvan... what about the quality of your episodes?

[Ric_Flair]

I used to be a Star Trek fan (trekkie or trekker avoided on purpose) then I realized that they were TERRIBLE.  The acting sucks, the special effects are bad, the plots are boring, the characters are stock...it is just terrible.  Then I realized that the core of Star Trek's value, despite all of the haughty upgrades, remains the same from the first series--shiny, huge wads of camp.  Star Trek and James Bond are both camp entertainment at its best.  The CAMP value of Trek is HUGE.  The actual literary/artistic value of Star Trek is well, equal to James Bond's....in other words nil.  

The only good "action" (using that term loosely) Trek is the final battles with the Dominion in DS.  It was "dark" (again used loosely) and "gritty."  As far as creative and interesting world creation sci-fi I think that even Stargate is better than current Trek stuff.  Trek stuff, aside from the transporter, just isn't high tech.  I have a palm pilot and a dust buster and a flat screen TV.

[Methuselahn]

I'm on board with Ric Flair here, for the most part.  I have all of the last ten minutes of every episode.   :lol:   Like clockwork, that's when all the momentum and climax of the show happens.

[Machinus]

TNG is probably my favorite, but it is really sterile. The "science" is especially bad, and although redeeming value comes in the form of character examination via picard and riker, the stories are just too weak.

In case anyone came prepared for a REAL argument, let me just say that Lucas > Roddenberry.

[Dr. Sylvan]

DS9 is a little too boring for my liking. I just got a PM from Eddie that most of his episodes are like only 120mb. That's pretty bad I'd say. Most of mine exceed 200 easily. My enterprise ones (which are pretty good quality, I'll admit) are like 350+. So um... Sylvan... what about the quality of your episodes?

Mine vary widely from 70 MB to 240 MB, with only a few at those extremes and most hovering around 120-160. Really, it's what I found on Direct Connect three years ago, and I had a preference for smaller files because my eyes aren't very discriminating and it was easier to get the whole thing without getting disconnected by the hosts.

As to Trek's literary/entertainment merit, I'm the first to admit that there is tons of utter crap in it. I wince every time Voyager escapes some "phenomenon" with some instantly brilliant technobabble solution. That is why VOY is the worst of the four initial shows. (As I understand ENT is just terrible, but I reserve condemnation for a time when I've been exposed to more than 120 seconds of it.) TNG and DS9 also have just disastrous plot moments where they just fill in the blank with [UNUSUAL PHENOMENON] and [BRILLIANT UNRESEARCHED THEORETICAL SOLUTION] which happens to fucking work every time. It just blows my mind that they rarely even pretend to need research for any of it, and that if a problem does need research (like a virus or something) they can solve it in no more than a few days.

That said, I enjoy Trek from one angle: the "insight into human nature" bit. There is an obvious problem with this enjoyment, because Trek humans are ridiculously agreeable and morally upright on the whole, but the times when they explore things from a less stupid perspective are occasionally superb. Trek also has a habit of using alien races to examine aspects of human nature in isolation. This has the unfortunate side effect of making these species waaaaaay too one-dimensional, but if you take the right perspective (namely that all the characters are archetypal of different human traits) then it becomes interesting.

For instance, in what I consider to be the best Star Trek episode of all time, DS9 619 In the Pale Moonlight, Capt. Sisko has to deal with the moral ambiguities of trying to deceive the Romulans into joining the Dominion War---an act which will cost millions of Romulans their lives but potentially save far more, including his civilization. (And besides, it's for their own good, right? They were just gonna get conquered later!) The way the episode plays out really does allow for good acting by some of the Trek's best personalities.

Another favorite of mine is the Changelings. What better way to have an inscrutable villain than to make that villain's worldview literally incomprehensible to the viewer? The long unveiling of the organizational structure and specifics of the Dominion does invite good thought about how we currently view life. (If you were genetically designed to serve and fight--not even reproduce--would you still want to be independent and free?) Odo especially elicits plot threads about the relations between completely different kinds of beings (see further DS9 714 Chimera). (After writing this paragraph I remembered that the Borg were such an inscrutable foe back at their introduction, but then First Contact humanized them and ruined their menacing aura. VOY's 8472 dudes were a lame attempt to revive the ph34r, but then they humanized them even more enthusiastically than the Borg! Stupid, stupid Berman/Braga.)

Riker and Picard in TNG are a classic of the American mythos: the father figure and his adopted son. My favorite part of Star Trek VIII: First Contact is when Picard goes ballistic after so many years of contained, reserved control--like the first time you see your grandfather get really Old School pissed. Riker's conversation in TNG 624 Second Chances with Troi about how different his career ended up than he initially planned is very satisfying to me, because I like introspective heroes who haven't found their place in the world. STVII: Generations, when Picard is upset about not having children, is similarly interesting.

Now Tony I am going to have to specifically disagree about the acting, at least for TNG and DS9. Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner (honorable mention for Jonathan Frakes and Levar Burton) totally made that series as charming as it sometimes was. John De Lancie's guest appearances were always really well-acted, I thought. I'm no professional observer of drama, but I thought they made the characters believable and fun. Spiner in ST7 was amazing. On DS9 I'd say Avery Brooks gave a consistent B+ performance, with Rene Auberjonois, Marc Alaimo, Alexander Siddig (formerly Siddig el Fadil), and [the actor who played Garak that I can't remember] really making the show. By the end even Worf was interesting, and Colm Meaney (O'Brien) was sometimes given good opportunities to act (see 419 Hard Time).

Basically, Trek has tons of filler and as a fan (I didn't even have to consult anything to make this post) I have come to accept that. But back in the day, it had some shining moments. The problem with the new shows is that they're about nothing. TOS was about morality. TNG was about exploration. DS9 was about war. VOY was about Chakotay's spirit guides and 7 of 9's (superbly formed, but nonetheless thematically irrelevant) body. ENT is to the best of my knowledge about something like a "temporal cold war" which sounds like the absolute lamest excuse to break continuity every week ever, and has no deep subtext for us to ponder. Without the recurring themes, episodes amount to little more than fan-fiction, except that the fanfics you find online often are cleverer about their totally superfluous technospeak because they know how empty and unfulfilling another flux capacitor or transporter foul-up plot is.

Not that I have any opinions on this or anything. :)

[Dr. Sylvan]

In case anyone came prepared for a REAL argument, let me just say that Lucas > Roddenberry.

I feel compelled to answer this because in case you couldn't tell I have a lot to say about SF tonight.

You'll find no argument from me on the Lucas > Roddenberry (or SW > ST) front. You're reading the post of a man who has spent so much time watching the Empire Strikes Back since such a young age that Yoda counts as a father figure. Star Wars is a lesson in proper action, like some kind of "Confucianism for White People", and this is among many other themes I may or may not point out as I make another long post.

I submit that proper action is the big lesson, because at each stage the "light side" characters move in accordance with what they are duty-bound to do. If they don't start out behaving out of duty, they eventually mature into this stance---Han being the ANH example, Lando TESB, and Vader ROTJ. Han initially is very self-serving and isn't shy about it. (He even asks Luke to abandon the Rebels with him right before the fight!) But the close of the film has Han returning because he knows he is duty-bound to fight the oppressive Empire. Lando's first goal is also survival, and he actively betrays an old friend to defend that, but is eventually forced to realize his mistake and try to rectify it by rescuing Han. Vader of course is the ultimate redemptive case---he ruined the whole galaxy, and it takes the pleading of his dying son to force him to behave rightly.

The never-bad-guys characters have more diverse ways of pursuing what they see as their duty/proper action. Uncle Owen was specifically charged with protecting Luke from the Empire and thus keeps trying to hold Luke back from the Academy. Luke himself isn't going to just rush off, because he is duty-bound to the Lars' farm. Leia is the character who defines "duty to oppose oppressors", and counterpoints Han's early attitude by staring The Man in the face and not giving in despite mortal peril. Obi-Wan's duties define his actions, too: first he is duty-bound to keep an eye on Luke until he's ready to "learn the ways of the Force", but he also has the duty to face his apprentice and his own share of the fault for Vader's actions. The former overtakes the latter when he knows Luke won't leave him alive on the Death Star, so he sacrifices himself to make Luke leave. I could go on and on, but you get the idea that the characters are mad obsessed with fulfilling their perceived duties.

The Force is all about proper action, too. Yoda doesn't demand that you never think about doing something wrong; he instead demands "Control, control! You must learn control!" and encourages Luke to be sensitive to his surroundings at all times. ("You must feel the Force around you.") In charmingly simple and plot-advancing dialogue he tells Luke to be patient ("Not far, Yoda not far. Soon, you will be with him."), to avoid judging based on superfluous information, and also to avoid frivolous displays of force ("Your weapons: you will not need them."). Not to mention the long-term outlook he advocates when telling Luke not to go to Cloud City (weighing duty to the galaxy above personal duty to friends, which Luke isn't advanced enough to do). He is, in essence, explaining the proper behavior of a Jedi (and Jedi is a codeword for angel if you take it in a biblical-analogy direction, so really he's prescribing ideal proper action for everyone).

Yoda's ascetic-reclusive lifestyle is another interesting tangent in the same vein. Why doesn't he go out to fight the Empire? Surely he could do a lot of good. In the Black Fleet novels, the explanation is offered that at a certain power level Jedi become incapable of taking forceful action without serving the Dark Side, but I think that's only a partial-credit answer. If that's true why isn't he advising the Rebel officers and using the Force to provide them information and warnings? This would require no forceful action, but it would expose him to detection by Vader/Palpatine. The best explanation for his behavior is that he places the duty to pass on Jedi wisdom as a higher priority than the temporary military situation, because of the stabilizing influence that the Jedi Order can have. Weighing different duties against each other without mentioning it explicitly in the story is HOTT.

And might I add that all of this is in the same trilogy as multiple awesome fight scenes. Really, I remain impressed even after all my viewings.

[Matt]

Oh man I hope you like this, it just seemed right up your alley.

[rvs]

So um Mr. Stanton: what exactly do you have?

[Addolorisi]

I wish I had all the TNG eps.  

It's been too long since I've paid attention to Star Trek, and I've gotten all fuzzy in the head.

First Contact was when they went back in time and fought the Borg, right?

What was the one with Kirk + Picard?

And I can't for the life of me remember what Insurrection was about, though I know I watched it.

[Dr. Sylvan]

Oh man I hope you like this, it just seemed right up your alley.

Ya know, a bunch of Babylon 5 cast made a band called "The Be Five", IIRC.

So um Mr. Stanton: what exactly do you have?

I write two essays spontaneously and you're still looking for VOY episodes? I will give the Dutch points for persistance. (Ironically, the Beatles' "I'm a Loser" just came up on my XMMS playlist, so I guess the universe is chuckling at me.)

Based on my notes, I have:
101-106, 108, 111-114
201, 206, 209, 211, 213, 219, 223-225 (all my 2xx episodes are abominable < 100 MB quality)
302, 304-305, 310-311, 318-321, 325-326
401, 406, 408-411, 413-416, 418-419, 421-422, 425-426
501, 504-506, 510-512, 514-516, 518, 521-522, 524, 526
601-602, 605, 609-613, 616-618, 622-624, 626
701-703, 707, 709-713, 715, 718-719, 721, 724-726

So basically a total scattershot, with widely varying qualities. Give me some time to set up an FTP server using my new OS (I now have THE LINUX.) and then I can have you leeching off me at your leisure.

However, if I'm going to such efforts, I demand an explanation why you think the Voyager abomination is better than DS9's awesome sauce. :)

@Addolorosi: Here's how to remember the movies if you're not hardcore, which I saw on Slashdot the other week.

Star Trek 1: The Search for V'Ger
Star Trek 2: The Search for Khan
Star Trek 3: The Search for Spock
Star Trek 4: The Search for Whales
Star Trek 5: The Search for God
Star Trek 6: The Search for Shakespeare
Star Trek 7: The Search for Kirk
Star Trek 8: The Search for Borg
Star Trek 9: The Search for the Fountain of Youth
Star Trek 10: The Search for Closure, FINALLY

[rvs]

@Sylvan: The DS9 I saw, there was a lot of talk, no action. Voyager at least is full of action. I also like the idea of actually travelling, instead of staying at the same place. Changes of scenery, opponents and whatnot is great.
Note: This does not hold true for the last 2 seasons. The war is pretty good. Maybe when I'm done collecting Voyager, I'll start the leeching of DS9 from you.  However, what's so bad about the new enterprise? There's a lot of action in most episodes, and there are a lot of 'funny' moments actually.

@Ric: Yeah, you're pretty much right on. There's no brilliant acting in star trek. There are little really good plots. And I still fucking like it. Just like a ton of movies that didn't get considered for oscars. There's nothing wrong with semi-mindless entertainment.

As a disclaimer: I'm not THAT big a Star trek fan, really. I won't dress up like a moron, or use words that came from an episode (SHAEL! - bonus points for who knows where that is from!).

[Dr. Sylvan]

I think that was the longest Rudy post ever. I'm so proud!

As a disclaimer: I'm not THAT big a Star trek fan, really. I won't dress up like a moron, or use words that came from an episode (SHAEL! - bonus points for who knows where that is from!).

I would not dress up in ST costumes, either. My fandom is for geeky discussion and viewing pleasure exclusively. Just like I think it's reasonable to treat LARPing as a whole extra level of geeky above and beyond the "still capable of being understood by ordinary people" geekiness that I mostly fall under. I'm definitely okay with quoting out of context as a reference to it, though I have no idea where "Shael" is from.

Note: This does not hold true for the last 2 seasons.

I will at some point figure out a group of DS9 eps that I consider to be the "Cliff's Notes" to seasons 1-4, including several of the best action sequences. (Remember that for a lot of DS9 and early VOY, they were still using models on wires instead of CGI---Babylon 5 was infinitely ahead of the curve in everything, including visual effects.)

[Machinus]

Oh man I hope you like this, it just seemed right up your alley.

AHAHA ROFL



I always thought he enjoyed the holodecks a little too much.

[Bram]

Like, just friggin BUY THE DVD'S dude.

By the way: Voyager sucks ass, and Ben Sisko's Deep Space soap opera even more. Hardcore trekkies go for TNG and Enterprise, yo.

On a somewhat related note: I met Jonathan Frakes (and Vanessa Hudges ;-) yesterday. I'll post pics as soon as I can (which probably means as soon as I get home).

[Dr. Sylvan]

You know the DVDs cost like $100+ per season, right? Buying seven would be like buying Power, when it's actually legal to swap TV episodes online for free. Getting the actual DVDs is the kind of thing someone with more money than internet buddies would do. I admit I'm planning to buy the Babylon 5 DVDs, but that's mostly because it was totally impossible to get more than a few episodes online three years ago, and I don't really want to start up "Phil's Bazaar of File Transferring" again, because it sucks up a LOT of time.

[Bram]

, when it's actually legal to swap TV episodes online for free.

...only when it's TV-rips however (and even then it's debatable). If it's a DVD-rip (which it frequently is on, say, bittorrent, it's hardcore criminal, yo).

Even so: it's just cool to have the original boxed sets. I own the complete Sharpe miniseries, Hornblower, X-files, and I'm now collecting 24 and CSI (Las Vegas). And when Enterprise comes out, I'll buy that too. I'm also thinking about butying the Millennium seasons.

[Machinus]

Did you read hornblower before you watched them?

[Bram]

I didn't even know who Hornblower *was* before I watched them...my gf made me. Now I'm kinda into it, actually. Though I thought tha last episode was a bit girlish.

[rvs]

...only when it's TV-rips however (and even then it's debatable). If it's a DVD-rip (which it frequently is on, say, bittorrent, it's hardcore criminal, yo).

I think me and Pyro have debated this numerous times, and I'm sure you were present sometime to hear it. It's not actually criminal at all in the land of the dutch.

@Phil: Why not let me download an episode which you think is typical for the quality of the rest you have? I'll judge it from there. I've been reviewing my own collection, and some filesizes do differ tremendously, while it does not seem to have a too distorting effect on quality. It could just that some files are better ripped than others. In general though, taped episodes from TV, and then somehow transfered to data are bad.

[Bram]

Like I said: in the Netherlands, downloading/owning/making available a DVD-rip is totally illegal. Downloading/owing a TV-rip is debatable (while it almost certainly is illegal by the letter of the law, it will probably not be prosecuted like videotaping before it).

[Addolorisi]

@ Phil: That confused me more than the real titles ever would.  

Does anyone know where I good get decent quality TNG eps? It wouldn't be until the tail end of August or early September that I dl them, but it'd be nice to know they're somewhere.