smmenen 2

[Jacob Orlove]

[20:42] <jpmeyer> spider-man 2
[20:42] <jpmeyer> and i'm not just acting like a douche here
[20:42] <jpmeyer> is about peter parker fighting with his innate gayness
[20:42] <jpmeyer> he's always like "i could mack mary jane, OR I COULD STUFF THIS ENTIRE HOT DOG IN MY MOUTH"
[20:43] <jpmeyer> he's always trying to get men to like him
[20:43] <jpmeyer> he leads a double life
[20:43] <Kerz> write a 1000 word essay about spiderman 2 and peter's gayness
[20:43] <Kerz> post it on TMD
[20:43] <Kerz> and i'll give you $1.
[20:43] <jpmeyer> awesome

So hopefully we'll see the essay in a few minutes.

[jpmeyer]

Basically, there are some distinct things that lead the viewer towards a queer reading.  If I had some of my textbooks by my computer, I'd give you the exact quotes and stuff, but here are some common signs:

1) doubles
2) double lives
3) camp

Doubles: there are two important doubles here: Peter and Doc Oc and Peter and Harry.  They represent "two different ways you can go."  You know, nudge nudge wink wink.

Double lives: being a super hero movie, both Peter and Doc Oc need to deal with their identity.  Doc Oc doesn't care.  He goes around all over the place, phallic tentacles flailing around.  Peter doesn't want to let people know that he's Spider-Man.  He's always running away from Mary Jane or Aunt May when he needs to go into gay mode because he doesn't want them to "know his secret."

Camp: Now, let's look at what play Mary Jane acts in.  It's "The Importance of Being Earnest," a play with marked gay undertones (it's full of foppish dandies spouting witty bon mots) written by known gay playwright Oscar Wilde.  Peter wants to go to it, but he's not sure of himself.  Do I want to go to the really gay play or not?  

Also, Peter is usually forced to choose between Mary Jane or Spider-Man.  Who matters more: the hot girl or the mysterious man?  Peter is also always trying to get men (Doctor Octavius, his profs at Columbia, etc.) to like him.

There's also another great scene where after Peter has decided to give up the ghey, he sees some cop cars screen by.  For a second, he wants to spring forth and return to the ghey, but he restrains himself--but it's difficult so he has to sublimate his love for the cock by stuffing an ENTIRE hot dog down his throat.  Oy vay!

I saw this movie like two months ago, so that's all I can remember right now.

Also, contrary to popular belief, you can't do this sort of thing with every movie.  For instance, I can't think of any way to talk about how say, Harry Potter or Chronicles of Riddick or whatever in this way.

[jpmeyer]

[20:48] * Kerz pays jp $1 @ wtby

[Kerz]

<Smmenen> wait.. is this incinuating i'm gay? CUZ I'M NOT!

[Ric_Flair]

That is hilarious!  I didn't even realize the connection until Steve's name was brought into the conversation.  He DOES look like Tobey McGuire (sp).

[The Atog Lord]

JP,

I bet you can do this with any movie. I’m quite unconvinced that there is anything gay about the Spider Man movie. Rather, you can pretty much read anything you want into anything else. People have done it with religion forever.

Here, I’ll demonstrate. I just sat down now and made this up.

Spider Man II is actually about Peter attempting to live as an Atog.

The Atog, a small creature which devours arcane artifice, represents the primal revulsion felt in all of us at the dominance of the artificial, manufactured reality which ubiquitously plagues our modern world. Combining the philosophy of Brave New World and The Jungle, the Atog is the glorious dream of transcending this metallic structure into which we have forced ourselves and returning to a more peaceful, oftentimes idealistic past in which man matters more than machine.

The Atog, as it were, puts the modern paradigm on its head. In the eyes of the Atog, no longer does the man become just another cog in the machine of technological reality; rather, the Atog in fact destroys the machine, and by the very same act grows stronger. Thus, the metaphoric hammer of Apple’s 1981 commercial is manifest in the Atog. Indeed, this small, inhuman creature, while not itself human, gestures us toward the very essence of humanity apart from the constructed world around us.

Now, let us turn our attention to Peter, and his quest to eradicate Doctor Octopus. Doc Oc is an amalgamation of man and machine, some grotesque hybrid of flesh and steel. That we as a species feel some innate revulsion toward such a concept is illustrated by the fact that the Borg in Star Trek are cast in the role of the antagonist. The Matrix also illustrates a deep-seated fear of technological overgrowth. In other words, Doc Oc is some terrible inversion of “Deus ex Machina:� “Homo in Machina.�

Thus, Spiderman, by striving to destroy Doc Oc, is in fact fulfilling the dream of the Atog and rending the man from the machine. His pursuit of Doc Oc is not the pursuit of a man, but rather the pursuit of humanity itself, and its ultimate redemption from the mechanical garden of Eden into which it has condemned itself.

Now consider Peter’s feelings regarding Mary Jane. Peter is torn between his feelings of lust for MJ, and his feelings of duty to the greater society. Mary Jane represents the deep innate desires within all of humanity. On the other hand, Peter feels torn by duty to suppress his innate, human urges. The struggle in Peter regarding his feelings for MJ represents the struggle in all of us to balance our own desires with the artificial constraints placed upon us by our society.

Ultimately, the struggle of one’s wishes with the will of society falls too far in favor of society’s wishes, thereby curtailing freedom and individuality. Here, too, we see the soulless artificial world standing in the way of true humanity. Here, again, we can see the philosophy of the Atog, where Peter struggles to bring his own humanity into conflict with the powers of society and duty.

Thus, Peter is in fact seeking to become an Atog.

And no, Steve, I am not implying that you are an Atog.
Why the hell not? --Matt[/color]

[jpmeyer]

People get the impression that you can make any book or movie mean whatever for a few reasons.  First off, Most people haven't read the literary and critical theory behind how you can try to make these connections.  Secondly, people don't understand that "common sense" or "the way you're supposed to read" are culturally constructed terms.  This sort of reading is heavily based on choosing a different criteria to focus your reading on rather than narrative.  Lastly, until you are actually taking like 300 or 400 level lit or film courses, the teachers never give a shit what you say.  I'm 100% serious on this.  It's the equivalent of taking say, a physics test and while you used the right formula, you fucked everything else up.  But since the formula was right, and since nobody got above a C, you actually are getting bumped up to a B-.

Honestly, the whole reference to "The Importance of Being Earnest" makes me think that this might be more intentional than not.  They could've chosen any play.  Why that one?

[The Atog Lord]

Maybe the play was "The Importance of Being Earnest" because the movie focused on Peter being true to himself? That makes more sense than anything else I can think of.

[jpmeyer]

The "Earnest" is actually a character in the play.  It's really just a joke.

I honestly can't twist Smmenen 1 into this sort of thing.  It's got some of the same aspects, (camp, doubles) but they appear in vastly different ways.

For instance, the camp here is pro wrestling, a spectacle that involves ludicrously muscular men in Speedos hugging each other.  But in the wrestling match in the movie, you have Smmenen, wearing a bulky sweatsuit, climbing the cage and not doing anything.

Or look at the effect of being Spider-Man.  Peter Parker gets to use his powers to impress women now (helping Aunt Ben, getting to kiss Mary Jane, etc.)

In one of my critical theory textbooks, at the end of each section on the various interpretive strategies, there is an essay where the author looks at The Great Gatsby through that theory.  It really didn't always work.  There's plenty of stuff in the say, Marxist reading (class, economic status, the American Dream,) but the queer reading was reaaaaaaaaaaally thin.  It was like "Um, Nick is gay because uh, he noticed that Gatsby had a pink  suit.  And he described Gatsby's car as a 'circus wagon.'  C'mon, someone help me out here!"

Exhibit 2: "The Puppy Who Lost His Way."  

[Joel Rojo]

So, the movie is about smmenen swinging around in really tight, flashy colored spandex, making sassy comments and stuffing hot wieners down his throath. He cares very little for this really hot chick and way too much about this fat guy with phalic-like metallic tentacles, and if you doubt the phalicness of the tentacles, do a google search for hentai then come and talk to me.

The movie is totally about gayness, really, you could hear people walking out the theater saying, things like "dude, not that I'm gay or anything, but I totally want some cock". I mean, it's popular knowledge how spiderman is completely gay inducing

[Matt]

helping Aunt Ben

Was that intentional?

[Bram]

I dunno, but it sure as hell was the first vaguely humorous comment in an otherwise completely misplaced thread.

[Kerz]

This is probably the most random thread in the history of time. Find me randomer, and I give cookies.

To keep the theme:

[JACO]

Spider Man II is actually about Peter attempting to live as an Atog.

The Atog, a small creature which devours arcane artifice, represents the primal revulsion felt in all of us at the dominance of the artificial, manufactured reality which ubiquitously plagues our modern world. Combining the philosophy of Brave New World and The Jungle, the Atog is the glorious dream of transcending this metallic structure into which we have forced ourselves and returning to a more peaceful, oftentimes idealistic past in which man matters more than machine.

The Atog, as it were, puts the modern paradigm on its head. In the eyes of the Atog, no longer does the man become just another cog in the machine of technological reality; rather, the Atog in fact destroys the machine, and by the very same act grows stronger. Thus, the metaphoric hammer of Apple’s 1981 commercial is manifest in the Atog. Indeed, this small, inhuman creature, while not itself human, gestures us toward the very essence of humanity apart from the constructed world around us...

I swear to all of your Gods, this is easily the best thing I've ever read on TMD.

[dandan]

Surely it is natural that Spiderman is strangely attracted to a person with 8 limbs.

Next you'll be telling me that Priscilla, Queen of the Desert is a gay movie!!

(you can't imagine how badly the subtitlers here failed to translate that movie)

[LoA]

Honestly, the whole reference to "The Importance of Being Earnest" makes me think that this might be more intentional than not. They could've chosen any play. Why that one?

They used that play because it's about a case of mistaken identity and leading a double life.

[Dr. Sylvan]

Oh man, new program: TMD Essay Contests!

Think of the potential, here, guys. If only I had more time to think how to bring it to fruition, but now I have to go to work. :(

[CrazyCarl]

A more interesting look on things:

How Masturbation turns you into Spiderman(or woman)

It starts with the old wives tale of hair growing on one's palms for excessive masturbation.

One, Peter Parker climbs up walls using little hairs growing out of his hand.

Two: Peter Parker is a gamer geek.  Gamers generally masturbate.  A lot.

Three: Peter Parker is Spiderman.

Thusly, one can draw a corollation between masturbation and Spiderman.

Masturbate --> Hairy palms --> Spiderman

[jpmeyer]

A more interesting look on things:

How Masturbation turns you into Spiderman(or woman)

It starts with the old wives tale of hair growing on one's palms for excessive masturbation.

One, Peter Parker climbs up walls using little hairs growing out of his hand.

Two: Peter Parker is a gamer geek.  Gamers generally masturbate.  A lot.

Three: Peter Parker is Spiderman.

Thusly, one can draw a corollation between masturbation and Spiderman.

Masturbate --> Hairy palms --> Spiderman

Also note the scene early in the movie when he's like "omg, what is this goo doing on my hands?"

[Bram]

Hmm. You may be onto something. That scene in the first movie where he's practicing shooting his web fluid in his bedroom....he's covering the whole room in the sticky ubstance and is startled when Aunt Ben walks in on him...I definitely see a parallel with autoeroticism.

[jpmeyer]

Hmm. You may be onto something. That scene in the first movie where he's practicing shooting his web fluid in his bedroom....he's covering the whole room in the sticky ubstance and is startled when Aunt Ben walks in on him...I definitely see a parallel with autoeroticism.

Superhero stories like Spider-Man 1 which are primarily about how the character gains his super powers, what he does with them once he gets them, etc. usually have puberty overtones in them.  They're all like "What are all these changes going on in my body?  It's doing things that it didn't used to do!"