Oath/Mask

[bebe]

With all the current talk on Oath I thought i would post my current build. I've been playing a transformational Oath sideboard with some success
and feel it is a very strong and viable choice.


U/g Mask
Paul Shriar


4x Tropical Island
4x Island
4x Flooded Strand
1x Polluted Delta
4x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Emerald
1x Black Lotus
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt

1x Darksteel Collossus
4x Illusionary Mask
4x Phyrexian Dreadnought

4x Force of will
3x Mana Leak
3x Daze
2x Crucible of the Worlds

4x Brainstorm
4x Accumulated Knowledge  
2x Merchant Scroll
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Cunning Wish
1x Tinker
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Gush
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time walk


sb:
4x Oath of Druids
3x BeB  
3x Ground Seal
3x Naturalize
1x Darksteel Colossus
1x Gaeas Blessing



The mana base
Five fetches are needed to combo with Brainstorm.
The rest of the mana base is tweaked for the build. I need
enough basic land to ward off hate and enough artifact mana
to get a Mask or Tinker off quickly. Strips are just necessary
additions in a meta filled with Workshops and duals. The deck was played
at Duelmen to a 5-2 record losing to Stax ( won one matchup)
and losing to TPS.

The kill
The deck was originally a Dryad/Mask deck. Dryads were just not
useful enough. Because you can see half your deck so quickly
I find Tinker/Colossus quite early.Mask/Dread is your main threat.
Masks are Tinkered into Colossus fairly often. We finally axed the Dryads
and the Berserk/Wish secondary kill.

The counters
We will skip FoW. Dazes are so useful at the start of games that
they have been the difference in many matches allowing first turn Mask or
Tinker without fear of an FoW. Your opponent also needs to be cautious
as he is always thinking that you might have it in hand and does not
want to tap out to play a spell. Leaks are just damn good with
artifact mana or Wastes as your second mana source. I do not use Drains as
I find that more often than not i either sustain burn or need an additonal
blue source. Crucibles have been golden. Get one out early and the game swings
immediately in your favour. They are also handy Tinker targets.

The search
Sylvan or Brainstorm with Fetches seem broken somehow. Serum Vision has
been replaced in the deck. Sylvan is also  not a needed now as Scroll/Ak is
generally a better engine. FoF is is just a good drawer and now searchable.
Cunning Wish most often fetches either BeB for Welder or Naturalizes for Rods.

sb
One tough match up is Workshop/Control (CoV for one, Trinis and CoWs)
are just bad. Dragon game one is also tough. So i added some utility
for these arch types. The rest of the board hoses U/g Madness, FCG, Fish
and R/g beatz. I have enough tournament experience to know these are almost byes.
I do pack an Angel for combo though - they are a good surprise.
The Angel is back up for combo when I can Tinker or
play it it out.


match ups -
mono blue and 4cc - I have played both at tournaments. Like Tog and GAT
beat them if you outdraw them. This build outdraws most decks.
My Colossus or Dread is just to damn fast a clock for these decks and
I've yet to lose a match against these decks - more to come on this.

Gat and Tog - These are a bit tougher than control. I need to counter their
AKS or Wishes and get an active sylvan down. So far my record has been
good against these decks. I would definately call them in your favour.

aggro or aggro control - Pretty much a bye after side boarding.
Oath is a beast. You are heavilty favored against Fish,
Madness, FCG and R/g Beatz.

workshop control - It is who goes broken first and so far I've
lost more than I've won. The matches are always close and usually
decided by who has the counters and better draw. I am a lousy top
decker. In testing and at /duelman it went 50/50.

combo - not easy for any deck. Tendrils, Belcher, Salvagers, Crucible
and Dragon are all tough. You need to mulligan into first turn answers
and go broken quickly or fill your hand with removal and counters. TPS
and Long Death are particularly difficult match upS. In nplay and in
testing we win about 40% of the games.

Some tournament information-
I've lost to Workshop control twice and Dragon once in three tournaments.
At ontario Vintage I defeated Fish ( the eventual winner), monoblue control
( ala Smenmmen blue), GAT and Workshop on the way to a 4-0-2 record which
was first after Swiss. This was before I switched out the Dryads
which were useless. The week before I lost to Dragon and CrucibleWorkshop
after defeating R/g, WtF/r and CrucibleWorkshop ( the twin of Rich's played
by Dicemanx).

Of note, Shock Wave playing his Workshop deck just has my number as two
of my three losses were to him.

I would have switched out Dryads earlier but Dicemanx had some convincing
arguments to keep them. I feel the deck plays better without them.

At Duelman the deck lost to StaX and Tendrils. It defeated Sui ( so what),
GaT, Madness and Stax (the twin of the one it lost to). Cermit played the deck and
had these comments;

my conclusion:
I think the Deck has a great consistency. Against Aggro after side
you can protect your oath-plan with enough counters so the matchup
its nearly a bye. Daze and Mana Leak were great in all games cause
noone expect them outside fish The stax matchup is 50:50, if you can
counter a early threat (Trinisphere, Smokestack) the game runs in your
favour. The more moxen improve this matchup, I think.
The games against TPS were very hard, so sb-changes would be necessary
for this meta. All in all you did a great job with Carsten, it was a
lot of fun to play this deck, thanks...

Carsten is Mon, Goblin Chief wqho helped put the deck together. Now Cermit
changedl ands with Moxen to make a first turn Mask/Sylvan library
possible and to be able to play Mana Leak as soon as possible.
In 7 rounds he was never screwed. I find that I need the basics as
Crucibles are everywhere here and the deck is fast as is.
He also plays three Sylvan Library, as the card is great against control
and lets you find your combo-pieces really fast.
He played no Crucibles. These were added after the list
was posted and have been very good in testing. It is a Tinker target
and a soft lock. Crucibles have added another dimension to the deck
that should not be lightly discounted. Sylvan/Crucible/Fetch is
like an every turn Ancestral.

So with results from a few good tournaments I think this might
stimulate some ineterest in Mask again. Methuselahn plays a
U/b version and he also made top eight with it at his latest outing.

Some cards we are looking at to improve match ups:
Engineered Explosives
Chalice of the Void
Stifle

Cards tested and discarded:
Dryads
LoA
Morphling in side
Mana Drain



edited Oct 1st/2004

[xthexpunisherx]

Just a question on your transformational sideboard, I would imagine the plan is to side out 4x dreadnaughts and 4x masks for 4x oath, 1x plat. angel and 1x gaea's blessing.  But what are the other cards you side in?  Also do you feel comfortable with only 2 win conditions during sideboard conversion?  Thanks

[bebe]

I side in as required - obviously masks and dreads go and plat usually comes in but often there are other cards i bring in as well.
As stated, the sideboard conversion has worked for us in every match in which we have used it. Concerning win conditions - the main deck has only two as well. We tried Morphling and Dryads amain deck and they just dilluted the efficiency of the deck.

[Covetous]

I notice that you are running only the 2 on-color moxen.  Is there a reason why more artifact mana would not be good?  It would seem to me that using 5 moxen would increase your chances of first turn leak/oath/mask tremendously.  I also wonder why you aren't running B2B since your deck seems to be relatively immune to it--it's a huge bomb and makes Daze that much better, even late game.  Since you said the deck design is due to playtesting I'm sure there must be good reasons, but I'm wondering what they are.  Also, why serum visions?  Because it combos well with Library?

[serialjester]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who still thinks Mask is good.

I've been toying around with lists like this, though the ones I've put together were all mono blue Masknought with Tinker/Colossus as an extra combo. Initially I had Trinket Mage in as well to act as early beats as well as tutor for the Dreadnought or random P9 or Chalice. I then realized that this isn't Salvagers.dec and I could just run more draw spells and find the Dreadnought that way plus allow for better digging for counters. Between counters and b2b/crucible lock it's a pretty solid control element and unlike mono black Mask you're not left out in the cold after your all or nothing initial surge gets disrupted. For reference here's the list I have right now:

4 Mask
4 Dreadnought
1 Tinker
1 Colossus

4 FoW
4 Drain
4 Leak
2 Crucible
3 B2B

Ancestral
Walk
Mystical
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse

4 Delta
Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
Lotus
Sapphire
Sol Ring
Mana Crypt
9 Island

SB
4 BeB
4 Energy Flux
4 Chalice
3 undefined slots(MisD, bounce, whatever)

Despite the fact that the kill are artifact creatures, Energy Flux is pretty good since it will shut down workshop decks and almost let you play at your leisure, dropping the Masknought or Tinker/Colossus when you'll be able to easily pay the upkeep cost for Flux.

[bebe]

Off color moxen can only replace Sol Ring, Mana Crypt or Islands. In testing I found the mana base was quite good as is. I had this discussion with the Germans and they do use all the Moxen but it strains your blue sources.

Daze is fine as is - I have rarely had a late game. B2B is an option. However, a lot of decks I played against were also immune to it. Against Workshop I prefer to go the Crucible/Waste route. Note that the deck is actually very tight. I often do not have an Island but rather opt early for Trops to play my Sylvans. I would be forced to fetch Islands first with B2B. I'm not sure that I want this. Note that the deck above does not use green. We tesated monoblue. A splash of green is a quite essential for the sideboard and I love Regrowth/Sylvan.

Serum Visions combos well with both Library and Brainstorm. It is quite good here. We had tested Intuition/Ak as well and certainly it seems a viable option.

Daze is better than Mqana Drains, BTW. Both my results and the Germans verifierd it.

[AggressiveDude]

Oathing a Dreadnought= bad

[JamesPr]

It seems that this deck could benefit with the addition of another Wasteland, maybe you could try taking out an island and seeing how that works.

[Necrologia]

Oathing a Dreadnought= bad

Hence siding them out for the Oaths.  

[xthexpunisherx]

I side in as required - obviously masks and dreads go and plat usually comes in but often there are other cards i bring in as well.
As stated, the sideboard conversion has worked for us in every match in which we have used it. Concerning win conditions - the main deck has only two as well. We tried Morphling and Dryads amain deck and they just dilluted the efficiency of the deck.

Actually your main deck has 5 win conditions (4x Dreadnaught, 1x Colossus) and I know that oath doesn't need many creatures to win but I would just be scared only running 2 win conditions, I don't know what to run in addition to those too (maybe adding in another Colossus or somthing) just a suggestion.

[AggressiveDude]

Oathing a Dreadnought= bad

Hence siding them out for the Oaths.  

Against what kind of Machtup?

[Flopmeister]

Although i like the list, i don't think it's viable in today's meta, because MD hate is around for you everywhere.

Pernicious Deed resolved is game.
StP is killing
Welder shuts you down even after SB.
Chalice for 2 makes you die, even after SB.
The fact that Plat. Angel is an artifact also makes it weaker as an sideboarding option, because you side out you Mask/Nought combo because your arti's are hated (i assume).

I don't want to sound very negative, but today's meta is why i sold my Mask/nought combo a couple of months ago. Depending on 1x Cunning Wish to get you out of shitty situations is not going to cut it. At least up the CW count by 1 or 2, and add some MD removal / bounce. If it works for you, stay with it. On paper it just doesn't look like a good call to me.

[BreathWeapon]

How is Mask/Dreadnaught any better than Show&Tell/Colossus?

Mask: Null Rod shuts down your entire deck.
Dreadnaught: Subject to Artifact Removal

Show&Tell: Allows 1 Free Drop and can be REBed
Colossus: Can be Oathed and Tinkered, immune to Artifact Removal

Wouldn't it be "smarter" to build your deck around Show&Tell, Tinker and Orchard/Oath than just substituting in Oaths? That way, you have maximum synergy across the board.

This deck makes very little sense, IMO, as it stands.

[bebe]

Pernicious Deed resolved is game.
StP is killing
Welder shuts you down even after SB.
Chalice for 2 makes you die, even after SB.
The fact that Plat. Angel is an artifact also makes it weaker as an sideboarding option, because you side out you Mask/Nought combo because your arti's are hated (i assume).

StP takes out one of my Dreads or a Colossus assuming I do not counter. So? Same with Deed. It's not as if I  do not have three more in the deck. Why would you assume I'm siding in Oaths against these matches? Only against Tog is this a possibility and then I'm siding in Naturalizes too.
Welder does not shut me down after sideboarding - note my counters are supplemented with BeBs. And we've beaten Welder game one with multiple Dreads.
Chalice for two? How does that stop Oxidize, Rebuilod or Tinker?  and how soon do you think it will be out. Think just a bit before posting. You really think that the deck is totally untested. Your draw is mostly inmmmuner to Chalice for two as  well,. When Richard played me he correctly played Chalice for ONE. Why would he kill his own Drains and Leaks to have me Tinker out the win.  Do you see the hate i can bring in?
Oath DOES not come in every match up people.

Mask: Null Rod shuts down your entire deck.
Dreadnaught: Subject to Artifact Removal

Shit - I hate going through this time and again. The decks playing Null Rods are susceptible to Oaths. We have never - repeat never - lost to WtFr
or Fish or FCG. And BTW, counters are there for a reason.

How is Mask/Dreadnaught any better than Show&Tell/Colossus?

You show me your results. I've shown you ours. It's better because it proved itself in multiple good fields. These are same discussions we had when introducing Fish and Dragon. I do not mind criticism but when I get comments like

Oathing a Dreadnought= bad

I wonder why I bother sharing tech. I'm not claiming the deck is the next best deck to beat. It is consistent and strong though. I'm not selling my Masks anytime soon.

[inscrutable]

Do you find that Blue Elemental Blast is a better sideboard option than Ground seal vs. welder decks?
BeB only remove one but Ground seal can shut down multipe welders.  Also, most deck are going to have a limited nuber of ways to remove enchantments if they come in with Oaths.
I'm sure you thought of this, I'm  just curious why you went a differnt way.  For instance, are there alot of non-welder matchups that you bring BeB in for?
I used to love the ground seals in my Vengeur Mask sideboard, and what the hell, it cantrips.

             -Inscrutable

[AngryPheldagrif]

How is Mask/Dreadnaught any better than Show&Tell/Colossus?

Well,

Show&Tell:
Requires both pieces in your hand at the same time.
Gives your opponent any permanent in their hand, free.
Is vulnerable to REB.
Requires colored mana.
Only works once.
Costs 3 initially.
Has never boasted heavy tournament success.

Etc.

[bebe]

Do you find that Blue Elemental Blast is a better sideboard option than Ground seal vs. welder decks?
BeB only remove one but Ground seal can shut down multipe welders.

Actually I could use Cursed Totem, Damping Matrix, Tormod's Crypt or Ground Seal to shut down Welder and Tog but BeB also works against Fish, Dragon and FCG. Most artifact hate I encounter is red based so I like the BeBs for that as well. Go with what you expect to see in your meta. As stated, my biggest problem is Tendril's based decks but I'm not seeing much Long Death here.  Workshop is a crap shoot but I can live with that as I beat the Fish match up that is difficult for them.

Show&Tell:
Requires both pieces in your hand at the same time.
Gives your opponent any permanent in their hand, free.
Is vulnerable to REB.
Requires colored mana.
Only works once.
Costs 3 initially.
Has never boasted heavy tournament success.

Thank you. Nicely summed up and my feelings exactly.

[policehq]

What was the player using U/B doing with his sideboard to counteract Null Rod, or did he just play a bunch of counters and Duress/Phyrexian Negator to get around it?

Barry

EDIT: And what about Oath of Druids makes you feel that G/U is superior to the B/U build?

[Flopmeister]

It wasn't my intention to sound negative about your deck, and i believe in your playtestingresults. The comment on the deck comes from what you said in the article actually... You say "tough" matchups are Workshop control, all combodecks and (possibly) psychatog and 4cc. That's a lot of 50/50 or less matchups to face, and a lot of specific cards you will face that give you trouble. First, I would really like to know how you sideboard in against some of your "tougher" matchups, or sideboard in general with the deck (concerning the Oath combo)?  Second, I would like to know how your Platinum Angel has worked for you as a sideboard option?

Greetz,

Floris

[Cermit]

hi, bebe, two questions about your revised list
(you mentioned that I played the deck with full power at dülmen, so my list differs from yours a little bit in the mana base):

Platinum Angel in sb?
Doesn't it come to late against combo, cause you will never side in oath against combo and 7 mana is two expensive to cast without moxen acceleration. I would prefer arcane laboratory or perhaps stifle...

Crucible main?
I think its a "win more" card in this deck and not worth the 2 slots, but I will give it a try. To protect/strengthen your mana base its not necessary imho. I played a lot of games where my opponent casts CoW and most of the time I had no disadvantage 'cause I already had basic lands or some moxen in play. Decks that run CoW normaly doesn't run Null Rod, so your mana base is mostly safe (ok, they run mox monkey, but if they manage to get  CoW and mox monkey through your counters, then something went wrong already).
Thats one great advantage of this deck: You need only few mana to lay your combo and protect it two rounds. A lot of games I won with dreadnought or colossus and one land on table. Maybe my playstyle of this deck is more AGGRO than control.

EDIT:
my decklist from last dülmen:
// Lands
    3 Tropical Island
    4 Island
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Polluted Delta
    3 Wasteland
    1 Strip Mine

// Creatures
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
    1 Darksteel Colossus

// Spells
    4 Illusionary Mask
    3 Mana Leak
    3 Daze
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Sylvan Library
    1 Fact or Fiction
    1 Tinker
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Gush
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Cunning Wish
    4 Serum Visions
    1 Time Walk
    4 Force of Will
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Mana Crypt  
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Emerald

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Darksteel Colossus
SB: 1 Morphling
SB: 4 Oath of Druids
SB: 2 Naturalize
SB: 1 Rebuild
SB: 1 Tel-Jilad Justice
SB: 1 Gaea's Blessing
SB: 3 Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Oxidize

[Hanzalot]

Hi Bebe

I just want to say great deck and _please_ do not stop sharing tech since it always is a true joy to see your newest creation.

Several times in the past I have tinkered around with your earlier u/g mask lists, but as you say, the dryads just wasn't doing enough. The main problem (after gush got restricted) was that the deck often would run out of steem, but I guess you haven't had that problem with this list. The oath sideboard truly looks like a beast vs. aggro.

I really have nothing else to add to this, but I will test the deck as soon as possible and then hopefully return with some useful comments.

Oh, and Cermit, would you mind posting your list? Or if you don't want to clog up this thread then just send me a PM with it?

Bebe - thanks for sharing!

Cheers,
Hans

[bebe]

You say "tough" matchups are Workshop control, all combodecks and (possibly) psychatog and 4cc. That's a lot of 50/50 or less matchups to face

Note that we must be careful when listing results. Tog and 4cc are favorable match ups. Workshop is 50/50 depending on the build. Some Workshop decks are more easily managed.

Combo can explode in your face. What can I say. You will not win before turn four or five as a general rule. So you need to counter the early combo pieces. Chalice would be in the deck if I faced more Tendrils. Dragon is played more here and I have weapons in the side for that. Do remember though that combo will often self-destruct. Most combo decks run into matches where they just fizzle.

So you have questionable match ups. Please list a deck that does not have a weakness. Overall looking at the top tier decks this is well situated to win more than it loses.

Cermit
Thank you for posting your list. You did alter my list a bit but kept the essence of the deck. Hope you don't mind me quoting you but I needed real results.
I actually try hard to tinker out the damn Angel. As you know this deck scrolls through the library quickly and finding the Angel combo can be done by turn three or four. At this point it is experimental and i might actually replace it with Cognivore.
I also play aggressively but against some decks I hold back a bit for counters before going off. It is an aggro deck first for sure. You are quite right.
Our meta has a lot of Fish and WtFr playing Rods and CoWs. In fact CoWs are pervasive here. Every deck capable of supporting both seems to do so. Despite this i manage wins over these decks with Tinker, pure speed or sideboard.
Crucible has impressed me. This deck as you know scrolls through the library quickly. I've soft locked decks with the CoW in testing by turns two to four quite often. Thisa allows time for a liesurely setb up and win without risk. I look at CoWs as pseudo counters.  They also serve s Tinker targets when needed as I play less artifacts than your build.

You need only few mana to lay your combo and protect it two rounds. A lot of games I won with dreadnought or colossus and one land on table

This why I find five artifact sources for mana enough of a boost. You use two more mana sources than me and i find I have been flooded with man more than once. It is a fine line but I think your tweaks are defendable. Note that I dropped FoF for a Regrowth. This seems a better choice in my build with a few less artifact mana.

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:20 am    Post subject:  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
What was the player using U/B doing with his sideboard to counteract Null Rod, or did he just play a bunch of counters and Duress/Phyrexian Negator to get around it?

Barry

EDIT: And what about Oath of Druids makes you feel that G/U is superior to the B/U build?

You would have to ask this of Methueselen about B/U - it is his build not mine. Oath is a bye against aggro and aggro-control. Large venues see a lot of Fish, FCG, WtFr, Sui, etc. I'm not about to be embarrased by them. This apart from some excellent removal green provides.

[policehq]

I personally like the version using the basic Islands TONS more than using off-color moxen, from limited experience. Daze truly is a HOUSE in this deck, and it requires you to have an Island in play.

I'm running a build with Intuitions over Sylvan Library, and so far I've liked it a little better; it gives you a bit more options versus different decks in game 1.

I tried using Impulse over Brainstorm for a while, but Brainstorm is vastly superior in conjunction with Tinker and fetches. You never want to get stuck with a Darksteel Colossus in your hand.

Barry

[zero]

Well, I'm always up for a new mask build, so I'll give this a spin. Just a quick question, with the dazes and gush, and not using a full set of moxen,do you ever feel like you'd want a fastbond in this deck? Plus it's not too shabby with a crucible in play...

[wuaffiliate]

I wonder why I bother sharing tech.

So true. I don't understand how people can post out of complete ignorance. Paul has a pretty good track record, listen and you people might learn something.

[JamesPr]

It's always a benefit to the community when you share decks like this.  So please don't stop sharing.  You should find room for another wasteland though.

[bebe]

A few notes: Fastbond is not good enough in this deck. It was tested initially and dropped.
Yesterday I went to a tournament and have a funny story ...
Round 1
I face Steve's monoblue build piloted by a nice kid from out of town. Despite being mana screwed two straight games I win both with a single Iskand on the table. Daze and FoWs are kind at times and the artifact mana pulled through. Afterwards he asks me if he should have sided in Energy Fluxes -  well normally they have littler efect but it would have won him the match.
Round 2
My old lady shows up and says she needs me for a family crisis. I can play one more maych she says. Well npow I'm totally out of focus and facing Matt with a Salvager deck ( this deck was sixth at Ontario Vintage). I know I have Seals in the side but I tell him I will have to drop so I won't side and we can play for a jhalf hour anyway. I know I will have to concede in either case so i do play a little sloppy countering unnecessary cards. Seals generally make this match up quite easy but I have decided not to bring them in anyway so we will have a test friendly. Game one I have double Dread on the table. Matt double Fire/Ices ( I'm without counters as we had a few wars) and next turn combos out. I don't side but he siodes in StPs. I know this will be rough without siding but I'm ready to go anyway. I get a fast Collossus which is StPed. I follow with a quick Dread which is STPed. He combos. I have lost a match to something other than Drain/Slaver/Stax. Matt was very cool about the games and I went to get my wife after dropping the deck off at our store - we have three store decks we use for Type 1.
I'm going to retire the deck for awhile as I can't play for quite a few months and I want to see how OathChard warps the meta before making any more changes to the deck.