New bullets for Food Chains

[Mateo]

This is my first post, but I have been reading the forums for a while. I play a lot of aggro but my 1st love will always be Food Chains. When I saw the spoiler for CHK and the card Glimpse of Nature I thought nothing of it. Then it hit me that this might be able to provide another great draw engine. I would like to find out if anyone else out there feels that this would be a good fit or would it be overkill.

Glimpse of Nature
G
Sorcery
Whenever you play a creature spell this turn, draw a card.

This would allow you to max your draw, using the ringleader it does not allow you to fully draw you extent of Gobies. Now I know some people will say that you do not need to worry about getting all of your creatures out but in certain cases it will help. Working with sharpshooter, this will give you all the shooting fodder you need.

[Vegeta2711]

No, it's fucking awful.

Way to explain your reasoning -- Leviat

[Mateo]

No, it's fucking awful.

Why would you say it's awful, if you access to something that will allow you to draw other things than goblins that what could it hurt?

Finding a chains against certain combo decks is a must and the deck as of right now has no other draws execpt for gobo draws.

So tell me where this could hurt???

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

No, it's fucking awful.

Correct.  I will elaborate:

Not only does this card break the Golden Rule of FCG, but it's basically "win more" as well.  In oder to make this card worthwhile you have to either have to play several goblins in the same turn with your regualr mana base or be in the process of comboing out with chain.  If you are comboing out you should win anways, and if you holdback goblins so you can cast 2-3 in one turn after this you are giving your opponent time to stabalise/kill you and completely ignoring the aggro route- FCG's primary plan of attack.  The card is incredibly conditional and does nothing on it's own.

And that, as they say, is the end of that chapter.

Edit: you and I posted at the same time:

No, it's fucking awful.

Why would you say it's awful, if you access to something that will allow you to draw other things than goblins that what could it hurt?

Finding a chains against certain combo decks is a must and the deck as of right now has no other draws execpt for gobo draws.

So tell me where this could hurt???

If you actually cast this and 2-3 other goblins vs a combo deck you have probably already won.  You can't outrace them so they only way to win is to slow them down with cheap hate cards and THEN combo out or smash face, NOT to cast a foodchain asap.

This hurts because the card sucks on it's own and it's so conditional it will rarly do anything other than take up slots you could have more useful goblins in.

Oh and most of the time you don't really need a draw engine that gets you things other than goblins anyways.

[Mateo]

No, it's fucking awful.

Correct.  I will elaborate:

Not only does this card break the Golden Rule of FCG, but it's basically "win more" as well.  In oder to make this card worthwhile you have to either have to play several goblins in the same turn with your regualr mana base or be in the process of comboing out with chain.  If you are comboing out you should win anways, and if you holdback goblins so you can cast 2-3 in one turn after this you are giving your opponent time to stabalise/kill you and completely ignoring the aggro route- FCG's primary plan of attack.  The card is incredibly conditional and does nothing on it's own.

And that, as they say, is the end of that chapter.

I completely understand what you are saying but a good example is game against dragon. FCG is a strong aggro deck that swarms but against a uber fast combo you need that FC to stand a chance, if they will go off 2nd turn you need to combo out faster and this will allow you to dig for your FC.

[JamesPr]

The only real useful time you can play this card will be when you already have your combo, and if you already have your combo you've already won.

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

No, it's fucking awful.

Correct.  I will elaborate:

Not only does this card break the Golden Rule of FCG, but it's basically "win more" as well.  In oder to make this card worthwhile you have to either have to play several goblins in the same turn with your regualr mana base or be in the process of comboing out with chain.  If you are comboing out you should win anways, and if you holdback goblins so you can cast 2-3 in one turn after this you are giving your opponent time to stabalise/kill you and completely ignoring the aggro route- FCG's primary plan of attack.  The card is incredibly conditional and does nothing on it's own.

And that, as they say, is the end of that chapter.

I completely understand what you are saying but a good example is game against dragon. FCG is a strong aggro deck that swarms but against a uber fast combo you need that FC to stand a chance, if they will go off 2nd turn you need to combo out faster and this will allow you to dig for your FC.

No, I don't think you understand what i am saying.  Against dragon outside of a turn 1 crypt or rootmaze you're pretty much toast.  You need so much of a goddraw to combo out 1-2nd turn it's not even funny; dragon goldfishes 2nd turn all the time.  If you have to dig for the foodchain with this crappy card by casting 2-3 golbins after it with all of that godly restricted mana accel you just drew and THEN play a food chain AND combo them out turn 1-2, I mean OMFG I can't even imagine someone doing that  (also note that dragon can fow your chain if necessary).

Anyone who knows anything about FCG knows that pure combo it it's biggest weakenss for this reason: you have no fow, your only disruption is wasteland, they are always faster excepting extraoridianry cirumstances (as in, like 10% of games or even less), and you MUST RELY ON SBED HATE TO WIN.  Against dragon mull into 1st turn hate, don't play this card.  (in fact against combo this card it probably at its weakest as you are ususally dead before you have time to use it)

[Mateo]

There is nothing worse that top deck mode with FCG!! I have been playing this deck for 2 years and must say that I know this deck in and out, when I hear people bashing a idea that can keep you from losing momentum, it makes no sence to me. I understand that dragon can FOW a FC but having access to a draw engine that can dig you a answer to ther graveyard , to me is smart.

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

EXCEPT THAT THIS CARD SUX.  I WOULD PLAY MIRRI'S GUILE IN FGC BEFORE THIS SHITTY CARD.

You topdeck this card with no hand; how much does that suck.  This just makes the deck worse in topdeck mode by adding it.  

All of your arguments to use this card are absolutely horrible and this thread is going nowhere so I will not post on it anymore unless some miracle improves the quality of discussion.  Also, in the future please try to use proper grammar.

I hope this gets locked really soon.

[Mateo]

EXCEPT THAT THIS CARD SUX.  I WOULD PLAY MIRRI'S GUILE IN FGC BEFORE THIS SHITTY CARD.

You topdeck this card with no hand; how much does that suck.  This just makes the deck worse in topdeck mode by adding it.  

All of your arguments to use this card are absolutely horrible and this thread is going nowhere so I will not post on it anymore unless some miracle improves the quality of discussion.  Also, in the future please try to use proper grammar.

I hope this gets locked really soon.

Excuse me but I do not appriciate the way you are acting, I simply made a sugestion and you are flying of at the handle.

If you can't keep your cool please do not post. Some of us out here try new thing to see if there is a better way, if you are stuck in your ways that is fine but keep your negtive comments to yourself please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Locking this down is fine, but all I wanted to do is have a discussion about a card, not to get flamed by a couple of guys that know everything.

[Mateo]

If ther is anybody that has a idea about improving the draw of food chains, and is able to post good coments please reply.

[jCoKn]

Don't use this card. Even playtesting with this would be a waste of your time.

For generally nicer replies to your suggestions, try the Newbie Forum.

[Apollyon]

This card is easily win-more in FCG. There are only a few cases that FCG comes into:

1) Your opponent combos out. You lose. This doesn't prevent comboing out.

2) You combo out. You already win. Win more.

3) You don't combo out, and play the aggro role. This makes your Goblins cantrips as well. It's useful if you can draw into a Lackey/Warchief, but not much else. There are very few times when this would be anywhere near more than a cantrip. And when it draws lots of cards, you will tend to win, anyways.

4) Balance/Mind Twist says that you are in topdeck mode. There is nothing worse than drawing this, because it says "Watch me be worse than a land drop"

In effect, you do nothing against the bad matchups, and do little for the good matchups. So why run something this weak, when you could run Blood Moon over it?

[Mateo]

This card is easily win-more in FCG. There are only a few cases that FCG comes into:

1) Your opponent combos out. You lose. This doesn't prevent comboing out.

2) You combo out. You already win. Win more.

3) You don't combo out, and play the aggro role. This makes your Goblins cantrips as well. It's useful if you can draw into a Lackey/Warchief, but not much else. There are very few times when this would be anywhere near more than a cantrip. And when it draws lots of cards, you will tend to win, anyways.

4) Balance/Mind Twist says that you are in topdeck mode. There is nothing worse than drawing this, because it says "Watch me be worse than a land drop"

In effect, you do nothing against the bad matchups, and do little for the good matchups. So why run something this weak, when you could run Blood Moon over it?

thank you for the feedback. I agree whith what you said. The only thing that I was doing was trying to keep an open eye for additional weapons for the deck.

[Vegeta2711]

There is nothing worse that top deck mode with FCG!! I have been playing this deck for 2 years and must say that I know this deck in and out, when I hear people bashing a idea that can keep you from losing momentum, it makes no sence to me.

First off nothing is worse than TD mode with any deck.

Secondly, the deck has existed less than a year. Hence your statements mark you to be a fool and a liar.

Finally, substanial claims have been made to why this card is bad in FCG, yet you ignore them. (Up until the very end) Deal with it if you have no adequate response and don't whine to others about their own attidudes.

[Mateo]

There is nothing worse that top deck mode with FCG!! I have been playing this deck for 2 years and must say that I know this deck in and out, when I hear people bashing a idea that can keep you from losing momentum, it makes no sence to me.

First off nothing is worse than TD mode with any deck.

Secondly, the deck has existed less than a year. Hence your statements mark you to be a fool and a liar.

Finally, substanial claims have been made to why this card is bad in FCG, yet you ignore them. (Up until the very end) Deal with it if you have no adequate response and don't whine to others about their own attidudes.

First, FCG has seen T1, T1.5 and extended, and it has been around a lot longer than a year, are you on this forum just to flame people? If this is the case please do not waste my time! You are just a sad, sad little man who needs to grow up a little and learn respect. If you can't play nice maybe you shouldn't play at all.

                     

[Pyromaniac]

Ok, ok, maybe it has existed a bit more then 1 year, but not a lot more, and certainly not 2 years.

The problem you always have with adding cards to a deck is that they have to be better then cards already in the deck, and to say it frankly, this card isn't better then cards that are already in there. I'd NEVER play this card in FCG. In some other deck, like elves or some kobold combo deck maybe, but never in FCG

[Apollyon]

FCG has only been around since Scourge. Team YMG used it last Extended season.

Without Scourge, the deck would have been terrible if it had been used before Scourge has been released. So the Food Chain tech that made FCG a powerhouse wouldn't have been developed before Scourge was released, around a year ago.

[Mateo]

FCG has only been around since Scourge. Team YMG used it last Extended season.

Without Scourge, the deck would have been terrible if it had been used before Scourge has been released. So the Food Chain tech that made FCG a powerhouse wouldn't have been developed before Scourge was released, around a year ago.

This deck was around before scourge, it has been used for more than just a year. Newer gobs just made it better. check older turney reports and you will see this.

[Mateo]

The topic that I started was a bad idea, and the direction that this is going is stupid.

To the Moderator that is available please close this.

[Apollyon]

I'm too lazy to search, could you hook us up with links to prove it, please? The Food Chain tech came from Israel, according to YMG. I'd be interested to see FCG pre-Scourge.

[Mateo]

I'm too lazy to search, could you hook us up with links to prove it, please? The Food Chain tech came from Israel, according to YMG. I'd be interested to see FCG pre-Scourge.

who the hell is YMG?

I know how long I have been tinkering with FCG, and it has been over 2 years. The deck does not have to be posted for every net decker to see to be played. The gobs might not have been as good as what we have now but it was playable with lacky.

You can search any major turney before 2 years ago and see the decklist, it may not have been all that effective but it was there.

[JamesPr]

Glimpse of Nature is a good card just definitely not in this deck.

[Apollyon]

YMG = Your Move Games, one of the dominant teams in non-Vintage play. They were the team that brought FCG to attention, and the credit the tech to some people in Israel.

I'm not quite sure what you'd use Food Chain in Goblins pre-Onslaught block for, as all the goblins pre-Onslaught block were what Goblins were supposed to be: trash, except for Lackey.

[Vegeta2711]

who the hell is YMG?

I know how long I have been tinkering with FCG, and it has been over 2 years. The deck does not have to be posted for every net decker to see to be played. The gobs might not have been as good as what we have now but it was playable with lacky.

...

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Here: http://www.themanadrain.com/primers/fcg.htm

The first reported successful usage of the Recuriter/Ringleader engine was in Jan. 2003. Note this is not with Food Chain, the deck got really playable when Scourge came out. Then around Oct/Nov-ish 2003 FC was added to the deck and played on the PT. No idea what world your living in though.

[Mateo]

YMG = Your Move Games, one of the dominant teams in non-Vintage play. They were the team that brought FCG to attention, and the credit the tech to some people in Israel.

I'm not quite sure what you'd use Food Chain in Goblins pre-Onslaught block for, as all the goblins pre-Onslaught block were what Goblins were supposed to be: trash, except for Lackey.

Yes, what onslaught brought to the table was what brought this to popularity, but like I said before some of us out here come up with deck ideas before YMG or whoever they are.

Keep this in mind, I started this topic to simply to get a conversation going about a card that seemed like it might have a home in a deck played right now. I did not expect to see this turn into a topic about who has been playing what and for how long, and to see who can flame the worst.

This was my first attempt at a topic here at TMD, and I must say that I am disapointed in the way this turned out. I can take advice but when people flame, it is just retarted.

[wonkey_donkey]

This was my first attempt at a topic here at TMD, and I must say that I am disapointed in the way this turned out. I can take advice but when people flame, it is just retarted.

You are just a sad, sad little man who needs to grow up a little and learn respect. If you can't play nice maybe you shouldn't play at all.

And the cry from the rooftops is "Hypocricy!"

To be honest, your claims of having played the deck for 2 years aren't desperately impressive. OK, maybe you played an awful (I might even go as far as to say 'unplayable') version of GobVantage rather than FCG back then - they aren't the same deck. If you were playing FCG 2 years back, then you're wasted here - you ought to be making big money on the PT. On the other hand, given the evidence of you being here...

Sorry, but the card's nothing special. Let the thing go and find something else to get angry about.

Tom

[Mateo]

This was my first attempt at a topic here at TMD, and I must say that I am disapointed in the way this turned out. I can take advice but when people flame, it is just retarted.

You are just a sad, sad little man who needs to grow up a little and learn respect. If you can't play nice maybe you shouldn't play at all.

And the cry from the rooftops is "Hypocricy!"

To be honest, your claims of having played the deck for 2 years aren't desperately impressive. OK, maybe you played an awful (I might even go as far as to say 'unplayable') version of GobVantage rather than FCG back then - they aren't the same deck. If you were playing FCG 2 years back, then you're wasted here - you ought to be making big money on the PT. On the other hand, given the evidence of you being here...

Sorry, but the card's nothing special. Let the thing go and find something else to get angry about.

Tom

Tom, it seems that everything that has been posted so far for this has been a flame!

What I played was mono red goblins, and than I ran across food chains, put 2 and 2 together and figured that it would be a fun and CASUAL deck to toy around with. I did not know what it would become, but I was very impressed and played a great version for ex as well as a version in t1. There were plenty of so so goblins to play before onslaught came out and it was a great deck to play. I never said it was teir 1 but everyone here just assumed that is what I said and that is why this topic went south.

If people here are just looking to argue about the smallest thing insted of discussing the pros and cons of an idea than this is not the place for me as well as most of the players that I know.

  Peace!!!!!

[leviat]

There's enough flames going around to melt the polar caps. It's the weekend, go out and get laid you geeks.