Nate Heiss: Wizard's Braintrust

[Ric_Flair]

Nate Heiss recently wrote an article about the top 10 budget cards of all time.  Personally, I find it hilarious when people make statements about things they really haven't thought too much about.  Its like Susan Sarandon talking about the environment, Curt Schilling campaigning for Bush, or asking a TRL guest what their favorite piece of literature is.  For the most part, if you haven't thought things out, better off to keep your ideas to yourself.  Here is the article:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/nh38

So here is the topic for this thread (changing it a bit from Heiss's topic): if your not an idiot what would the Top 10 commons of all time list look like?  

Here are the criteria: 1) rank the card historically, that is based on its performance over time and not just at its peak power; 2) look at the card's strength in different formats (for this thread lets just look at Constructed power); and 3) look at the card's strength in different eras of different formats.

Here is my list:

10) Red Elemental Blast:  This is perhaps one of the best, if not THE best SB cards of all time.  It is an amazingly powerful card and showed up in impressive numbers in every format it was legal.  Furthermore, it still shows up in Vintage, which means it is truly an all time great.  Obviously Pyroblast is worse for rules reasons and the blue blasts are worse because Red is really the Official SB color of Vintage.

9) Fireblast:  Though this card does not show up in our format it was popular in every format where it is legal.  It is the anti-Force of Will.  When it was legal in Standard it ruined the format in a Affinity type way for about 3 years.  This was right around the time they instituted the Block Rotation program and as a result we got to spend an extra year with Fireblast.  Yipee.  I am so excited.  Irony is impossible to convey over the Web.

8) Lightning Bolt:  This card was the standard bearer burn spell for the first five years of the game.  Creatures were usually deemed good if they were outside of bolt range, an indication to the dominance of this card.  I think the subtle but significant difference between this and Shock is an indication of how good this card is.  The third best boon.

7) Kird Ape:  Though this guy has lost a lot of its luster it is still an amazing creature and was for a long, long time.  Now that combat creatures have been superceded by ability creatures, this guy can't be the beast it once was.  All he does is attack.  Booo!

6) Rancor:  Can you name another creature enchantment that has a deck based around it?  When Rancor first came out it was a deck building revolution.  Stompy was a good, in fact, very good deck.  Going from the Rogue Elephant version to the Albino Troll version, Rancor was the backbone of the deck.  And then Three Duece picked up this beater of a card and ran with it.  Though not incredible in Vintage, Rancor is still an amazing card.  Oh, and it was an ass whupping in Limited, even though I didn't give it any credit there.  Only Empyrial Armor or maybe Pestilence was a better common in Limited.  

5) Wild Mongrel:  Among the best creatures of all time (in my opinion 4th on the all time list behind the unrankable Tog, Welder, and Ravager), Wild Mongrel is the prototype of the new amazing ability creatures.  

4) Counterspell:  Basic, boring, and too good for Standard.  Really, if Mana Drain and Force are not both available is there any reason NOT to play Counterspell.  Though Mana Leak is better in Vintage, Counterspell is better everywhere else and good even when Mana Leak is not good.

3) Dark Ritual:  Simply an amazing card.  I am not sure if people realize just how good this card is.  I am serious when I say that it is only slightly worse than Lotus in the vast majority of decks that use it (i.e. combo decks).  Very impressive in a ton of decks and only once did it really fall out of use when it was legal.  And I think that was largely because we were idiots back then.

2) Duress:  Personally, I think this is better than Counterspell.  It is cheaper and preemptive.  One of the weaknesses of counters is that you have to have them at the exact right time--when a spell can be cast.  Now Duress is still no good if the card is in play, but there is really no reason to wait to cast it if you know they have something good.  It has always been played.  It can be agressive or controlling.  

1) Brainstorm:  So we did not understand Brainstorm for a long, long time.  It was Impluse's retarded brother.  But now we realize that with a bit of shuffling Brainstorm is like Impluse's autistic, card counting, Vegas beating little brother.  Perhaps the best unrestricted card in Vintage and certainly the best search card of all time, Brainstorm's power in a deck with fetchlands cannot be denied.  

Honorable Mention:  Elvish Spirit Guide:  There are certain cards that are good because they do something no other card does.  This is Elvish Spirit Guide.  It took us a while, but we now know just how good this little creature is.  

Accumulated Knowledge:  While not a skill testing as Brainstorm, AK is the workhorse of most blue decks in every format where it is legal.  With Intuition you have a might card drawing engine.  

Nate's comments show a great deal of blindness or lack of preparation.  Comments like Birds of Paradise are the best creature of all time is simply lunacy, and the comment with Counterspell is not elegant, cute, or humorous.  

Any thoughts?

[Machinus]

First I would just like to say that while I haven't compiled my response list yet, I agree that Nate's top ten was horrible.

[Bram]

I sent in a lengthy letter to Nate Heiss about five minutes after he posted  the article. Heiss' list is partially, erm, uninformed. My two major gripes were:
1. him declaring that Hymn might be playable in casual but otherwise it's illegal (hello? Vintahe anyone?)
2. him stating that Hymn is a better card than Duress. How ignorant.

His failure to include Dark Ritual, Lightning Bolt and several FCG parts was...conspicuous as well. Ric: your list is a hell of a lot better.

[Azhrei]

Best budget cards ever, in no particular order:

Dark Ritual, Necropotence, Duress, Demonic Consultation, Hymn to Tourach, Hypnotic Specter, Phyrexian Negator, Wasteland, Strip Mine, Swamp.

I bet you could even make a cheap deck with that... it might even win some stuff.

[Eastman]

Incidentally, Schilling apologized for his comments just a few days later, saying it was innapropriate for him to abuse his position by giving his views unsolicited.

Susan Sarandon, however, is still a bitch.

[Triple_S]

Very true, she is a clueless twit.

[Smmenen]

Forsythe told me at SCG II that Brainstorm was on the table for restriction recently.  It won't happen, but it WAS on the table.

[Machinus]

That would have either ruined your life and your deckbuilding, or stricken fear into every regular card on Stanton's list.

[Bram]

OK, Nate just mailed me that he has responded to some of my questions (and about 1,000,000 other people's similar ones...) on the Wizards boards. First of all, I think it's cool of him to notify me since I would never have caught it otherwise. Here goes:

Ok, I knew this would generate a large response, so I had a few extra defenses prepared for naysayers.

First off, I would like to admit that I completely missed Rancor. It should be at least somewhere on the list or have honerable mention. It is awesome.

Now on to the most common comments:

1) Dark Ritual: This card is fantastic, but it is not a budget card. Not because the Ritual itself is expensive, but the cards taht you probably want to play with that mana are not budget cards. Thus, the Ritual Drops right off the list.

2) Lightning Bolt. The forums have defended my choice pretty accurately on this one. It is tough for strict burn to make the list. Fireblast did because of its simple game ending power. Budget decks need to have that sort of power, plus lightning bolts arent very cheap. Fireblasts are barely budget as it is.

3) Llanowar Elf. This guy is amazing. People need to learn more about mana acceleration if they don't understand why. There is a reason why moxen are really expensive. There is a reason why Mana crypts and Sol Rings are everywhere in vintage. Fast mana is simply one of the most important things in the game...moreso than your actual win condition. This is why a card like this can be better than Morphling or Wild Mongrel. I don't know if I would put the Elf above Morphling or Tog, but the Bird certainly is. Keep in mind that being the best creature doesnt mean 'best kill card' - it means creature that is most likely to put you in a position to win the game.

4) Elf>Mongrel: Someone earlier nailed it (sorry forgot who)...Mongrel is in one deck (madness), Elf is in many. Plus, you should probably have Elves in your Madness deck much of the time (assuming budget version).


I hope that cleared up some questions.

I really enjoyed reading the Duress/Hymn discussions. On the surface, Duress might seem better...after all, it is an extremly powerful card. However, Hymn just wins games most of the time it is cast, unlike Duress, that only disrupts. hitting 2 random cards of any type is far superior to choosing one, moreso than the extra B it costs.

Thanks for reading and commenting guys!

-Nate

My main gripes were with the absence of Dark Ritual and the Hymn>Duress statement. I am completely unsatisfied with both responses.

Ritual doesn't let you play budget cards? What about Negator? Or Hippy? Or three freakin' Zombies? Or Necro to draw your way into god knows how many more cheap (literally and figuratively) threats?

And he's just plain wrong about Hymn. There's only one serious format in which we are allowed to play it, so it should be the benchmark. Hymn does NOT end games. MAYBE it did in the past. Today, it's either countered (because it's slower) or Misdirectioned, or it just plain resolves and puts Mindslavers and Platinum Angels in the yard for Welder decks. Also: Madness....

Duress just plain kills decks. That 1 FoW they're holding is their last line of defence against your game breaker. Can you spare one extra black? 'Course you can. GG.

[Kowal]

There's definitely an implied casualness about the list.  His audience is the player who will not ever buy a single worth more than a dollar.  Therefore, no shades, no negators, etc.

I mean, christ, he made a comment about the price of lightning bolt.  I want to slap him, but I think his point is clear.

[Matt]

Ritual doesn't let you play budget cards? What about Negator? Or Hippy? Or three freakin' Zombies? Or Necro to draw your way into god knows how many more cheap (literally and figuratively) threats?

Bram, you have the worst Vintage bias. 'Budget' to type one players is still really expensive to anyone else. Read his comments: LIGHTNING BOLT is too expensive for his budget. Negator and Necro are not $1 cards.

When he says 'budget' he means '$20 or less for the whole deck'. And Duress surely doesn't "just plain kill" such decks, but Hymn will.

[Bram]

Well, I suppose if you look at it like that, you're right.

His list may be sort of accurate as long as we're discussing 20 buck casual decks. The only problem with that though, is that I can't see myself, nor any large amount of others, caring about such a list.

[Dr. Sylvan]

To reiterate:

Bram, you have the worst Vintage bias.

[Bram]

But how does one estimate power level in a casual environment? How do you define casual? Phil: I wanted to dig up some of your numbers and look at appearanceof Dures vs. Hymn over the last year or so to back up my argument

[Methuselahn]

I bet Bram scouts and metagames accordingly for his intense casual tournaments.  

[Dr. Sylvan]

OH MAN a data request!

2003, Jan., Feb., Mar., Apr., May., Jun., Jul., Aug., Sep.
15.1, _3.8, _7.0, _7.2, _6.4, _7.0, 10.0, _7.3, _9.2, 10.6 Duress
_1.1, _0.0, _0.0, _0.0, _0.0, _0.0, _0.0, _0.0, _0.0, _0.0 Hymn to Tourach

I'm gonna hope that lines up correctly in this font.

Bram, my comment was about this part of your post:

The only problem with that though, is that I can't see myself, nor any large amount of others, caring about such a list.

Only a through-and-through Spike or Vintage player wouldn't think about the huge portion of the Magic audience that is (a) literate, (b) possessed of internet access, and (c) very very unwilling to buy tons of cards.

[Matt]

Only a through-and-through Spike or Vintage player wouldn't think about the huge portion of the Magic audience that is (a) literate, (b) possessed of internet access, and (c) very very unwilling to buy tons of cards.

For example, I fit all three of those conditions. I routinely will stop watching an ebay auction for something I want once it passes a certain (low) mark, unless I think I can get a significant amount of cards in trade. Essentially my criteria is that in the end, after trades I feel confident I can make, I won't pay more than $2 for a rare (unless it's something like a dual land) or $1 for a (good) uncommon. Even less for commons, which I just don't buy online at all.

And yet I am probably in the 90th percentile of people who read about Magic.

You can imagine how much of a boon MWS has been to me.