UBr tog

[Wildthing]

I´ve been playing UBr tog for a while and i think its a very good deck in the current metagame, I specially like the 3/4s duressesnd cunning wishes which are very strong against a lot of decks.
I find the deck weaker against red burn and goblins. Thats why im playing maindeck tinker-colosus, It has won me so many impossible games that i can´t understand why It doesnt see game, specially with brainstorm and tog to discard useless colossus
Im not also sure about the optimal number of explosives, cuning wishes and moxes for my metagame ( it has a lot of standstill, some affinity and random aggro, keeper, very little workshops, some oaths, black control, madness and 4c tog).
I believe that a third win condition is needed thats one of the reasons why i play colossus, a friend has been trying morphling instead with satisfactory results
I am also not sure about how is the typical sideboarding against stacks for example at the moment im changing 2DA for 1 R&R and 1 Hurklys
My current list is:

// Mana
    4  Polluted Delta
    1  Flooded Strand
    4  Underground Sea
    4  Volcanic Island
    3  Island
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Sol Ring


// Creatures
    1  Darksteel Colossus
    2  Psychatog

// Draw and search
    1  Ancestral Recall
    4  Brainstorm
    2  Deep Analysis
    4  Accumulated Knowledge
    2  Intuition
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Mystical Tutor

// Counter and disruption
    4  Mana Drain
    3  Duress
    4  Force of Will

//Utility
    2  Engineered explosives
    3 Cunning Wish
   
//Broken
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    1  Time Walk
    1  Tinker
    1  Mind Twist

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Engineered Explosives
SB: 1  Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2  Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1  Shattering Pulse
SB: 1  Fling
SB: 1  Firestorm
SB: 1  Fact or Fiction
SB: 1  Gush
SB: 1  Pyroblast
SB: 1  Snuff Out
SB: 2  Rack and Ruin
SB: 1  Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1  Misdirection


What are your thinkings about the deck? would you do any changes? What do you think about the side? Is it viable?

Any suggestions can be made and i will thank it very much

[arj]

Engineered Explosives vs. Fire/Ice

I would think that Engineered Explosives is included to handle small dorks while being more versatile than Fire/Ice. But I still like the fact that Ice can be used to tab one of the two islands 4CC often has open to be able to drain, not to mention the cantrip effect.  Maybe you could direct me to a thread where this has been discussed or have opinions?

[Outlaw]

Have you thought of lowering your non-basic count and putting in back to basics? It seems that your only supporting red for sb purposes only, and engineered explosives (I would suggest lowering the count or just putting in fire/ice with adding in back to basics).  Also what about adding in a gorilla shaman? Their so house.


My suggestions

-2 Volcanic Island
-1 Underground Sea
+2 Island
+1 Swamp
-2 Engineered Explosive
+1 Back to Basics
+1 Fire/Ice

I know 1 ofs seem pretty random, but we should discuss and see if they work, it gives you versatility without having to wish for answers.  Also why have you chosen not to include the mox pearl?

[Wildthing]

I am not running mox pearl because i dont know if its worth and i never play over 60 cards. Would you run it?
Engineered explosives are quite useful specially destroying moxes, oaths and enchantments in general which are the principal weakness of the side, thats why i think f/I shoulld not be included
I am not using gorilla shaman or back to basics because i want to improve my matchups against aggro (R/G, afffinity, stupid red burn and maybe fish) where most of the time they are dead cards
I like the idea of adding a swamp maindeck indeed I ve been playing it for 2 weeks because i didnt own mox jet, now that it has come i ve simply cut it

[Gaea]

This is the UBR tog list, also known as T1T, with wich Lorenzo Fedeli won in Dulmen, modified for italian metagame (by him and Filippo Grigatti, 2 of italian best players):

http://www.theabyss.biz/2004/winners/2top8bologna10.htm

This version runs 7 solomoxen, 3 intuitions and 1 only E.E. because against an aggro deck your deck must increase his speed and became a sort of combo deck and win the damage race with the aggro deck.

You simply don't need BTB cause you win with every deck wich suffers from BTB, (except for bazaar-madness wich is not so easy to beat) and you put in your deck other dead cards vs aggro decks.

[Wildthing]

OK thanks, I dont understand very well tha advantages of playing 3 intuition, I never know what to play the second and third for
1º Intuiition: 3Ak usuallly
2º Intuition: 2Da + another drawer
3º Intuition: ??(yawgmoths will set up?)
If you want to race another aggro decks why idoes it only plays 2 togs, I think only 2 kill conditions could be risky sometimes
What do you think of these changes?:
-1Tinker
-1Darksteel colossus
-1 Engineered explosives
+1 Cunning wish
+1 Mox pearl
+1 Morphling/psychatog/??

[Moxlotus]

OK thanks, I dont understand very well tha advantages of playing 3 intuition, I never know what to play the second and third for
1º Intuiition: 3Ak usuallly
2º Intuition: 2Da + another drawer
3º Intuition: ??(yawgmoths will set up?)
If you want to race another aggro decks why idoes it only plays 2 togs, I think only 2 kill conditions could be risky sometimes
What do you think of these changes?:
-1Tinker
-1Darksteel colossus
-1 Engineered explosives
+1 Cunning wish
+1 Mox pearl
+1 Morphling/psychatog/??

You're not going to draw the 3rd one.  Think about, how hard would it be to draw all 3 of them?  The point of 3 is to ensure you draw 1 quickly every game.  I have never cast all 3 in a game.  The order of the first 2 depends on if you are playing against control or not, but never worry about number 3.

[Gaea]

exatcly!!!

and sometimes you must/can pitch it to force of will or use it on other player's end of turn to prepare a big yawgmoth will (for example taking atog, wish and walk...)

[Shaman]

The reason why you play 3 intuitions is that with 3 of them in the deck you can see earlier the one you need (the first): resolve intuition and then go nuts. That seems fair enough.

[JACO]

OK thanks, I dont understand very well tha advantages of playing 3 intuition, I never know what to play the second and third for
1º Intuiition: 3Ak usuallly
2º Intuition: 2Da + another drawer
3º Intuition: ??(yawgmoths will set up?)
If you want to race another aggro decks why idoes it only plays 2 togs, I think only 2 kill conditions could be risky sometimes
What do you think of these changes?:
-1Tinker
-1Darksteel colossus
-1 Engineered explosives
+1 Cunning wish
+1 Mox pearl
+1 Morphling/psychatog/??

You don't always go for 3 AK's, you have to play it by matchup. Against any type of control deck, you would rather have 1 Duress + 2 Deep Analysis.

If you are playing 3 Intuitions, the point is to play one very very early (off Mana Drain or land + artifact acceleration). It can also be used as a tutor for something like Force of Will or Psychatog in a pinch (if you are playing 3 Togs).

I'd recommend dropping the Tinker/Colossus, but if you've been having extreme success with it, maybe it makes more sense to also look (privately, before posting) at basing a deck more on that (and with more tutor effects), and less about the Psychatog.

[Wildthing]

Ok I´m trying with three intuitions and its working very well but Im not sure about playing only 2 psychatogs I think adding a third could help.
-1Tinker
-1Colossus
-1Explosives
+1Mox pearls
+1Intuition
+1Cunning wish
Would you play cranial extraction over mind twist?
Why is this deck playing always misdirection and stifle in the side, are they really useful?
How do you side against aggro? -2DA + 1 BeB + 1 explosives?
Thanks for the advices

[Sanity_XIV]

Doesn't UBr have a harder matchup vs. aggro than UBg because if they have a blocker, then you are forced to fling the 'Tog over the blocker, and then it has to be grown larger than with berserk. Berserk requires 6 cards in hand (and none in grave) to outright win you the game at the minumum, whereas fling only needs that many if you can get the 'Tog unblocked.

B2B shores up matches that can go either way, like vs. Fish, which you do not always win, B2B is a near auto-win. It destroys their mana-base completely, as well as letting you set up winning easier.

Do you even need MD Explosives? I run Deeds in SB, and no maindeck answers to things and it seems to work alright. What are the advantages of UBr over UBg 'Tog?

[Wildthing]

I think UBr has a much better sideboard than UBg and the 4 wishes configuration helps you a lot against artifact decks, thet side flexibility is the greatest part of the deck
Fling is definitely worse than berserk but the drawing engine and the side helps you to take the control of aggro matches and maze of ith is less painful with fling  
B2B is a good card in the actual metagame but id rather have more versatile cards again all my worst mathcups than playing b2b which only wins me games against fish (firestorm is a great card here also)
Explosives is a flexible answer against welders weenies and oaths (maybe another enchantments too for example survival), i cant run sideboard enchantment removal so i like the single explosives in the main deck for dengarous situations

[Sanity_XIV]

I run Deeds in SB... Should they be replaced by explosives? Also, I don't fear Maze of Ith that much because a) no one really plays it, and b) I run 3 wastes and a strip.

Green has good artifact hate too, in oxidize/naturalize, and also ground seal vs. welder. B2B hurts combo a little, makes all games longer so that you can set up large 'Togs easier.

[Wildthing]

After a long time testing the deck ive updated it to the following list:
// Mana
4  Polluted Delta
1  Flooded Strand
4  Underground Sea
3  Volcanic Island
4  Island
1  Mox Sapphire
1  Mox Ruby
1  Mox Jet
1  Mox Emerald
1  Mox Pearl
1  Black Lotus
1  Sol Ring


// Creatures
2  Psychatog

// Draw and search
1  Ancestral Recall
4  Brainstorm
2  Deep Analysis
4  Accumulated Knowledge
3  Intuition
1  Demonic Tutor

// Counter and disruption
4  Mana Drain
4  Duress
4  Force of Will

//Utility
1  Engineered explosives
4  Cunning Wish

//Broken
1  Yawgmoth's Will
1  Time Walk
1  Mind Twist

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Engineered Explosives
SB: 1  Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1  Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1  Shattering Pulse
SB: 1  Firestorm
SB: 1  Fact or Fiction
SB: 1  Gush
SB: 1  Pyroblast
SB: 1  Snuff Out
SB: 2  Rack and Ruin
SB: 1  Fling
SB: 1  Fire/Ice
SB: 1  Rushing River

I have come to the conclusion that against stacks you don want to side in 2 rack and ruins, i prefer to leave them on the side, It has won me more games

I have been looking also decklists of T1T from Italy and the winner of the tournament played 1 psychatog and 1 sarcatog, i cant understand how sarcatog can be better than psychatog in a deck with only 8 artifacts, can anbody explain me why play sarcatog over morphling or another tog?

I chose to play the 4th duress over the mystical because the are golden against oath, also i have found mystical not very useful except in a large  game for searching yawgmoths will but irrelevant against workshop decks

I am thinking about running 1 morphling in the side against graveyard hate (tormods crypt) and tog hate (ReB, swords...)

What do you think of these changes

[xDeathwishx]

Morphling seems like a reasonable option vs. Graveyard hate, but I would probably rather have it sideboard instead of main. Tog overall is just a much stronger creature md than morphling would be.

[God_Campbell]

I belive UBg is the way to go as you can run berserk and just outright win with liek very litle cards.and also since it is the version i have had the most success with.
Dr.Teeth is Back In town
Sb:
1 DA
1 Stifle
1 FOF
1 Berserk
1 Naturalize
1 Echoing truth
1 Coffin purge
1 P.Deed
1 Snuff Out
1 BEB
2 Ground Seal
2 B2B
1 D.Edict

MD
Mana:
Emerald
Sapphire
Jet
Lotus
S.Ring
LOA
4 Delta
3 Sea
3 Trop
4 Island
3 Waste
1 Strip

Tutoring and Card Drawing Hotness
3 C.Wish
1 D.tutor
1 M.Tutor
1 A.Recall
4 Brainstorm
4 Ak
2 DA
1 Gush
2 Intuition

Counter and disruption
4 Drain
4 Fow
2 Duress

Broken funess
1 M.Twist
1 P.Deed
1 Yag Win
1 Walk

Dr.Kill
3 Tog

Summary:
I wish to try out Explosives instead of deed in the future as i feel they are slightly better in my meta of random jank some powered, fish/WTF,4cc, growatog, sui,fcg
I really just like how tog and adapt and change in smaller metas as aposed to say metas like starcity type events with more workshop and combo then in my meta.
now i am open to constuctive thoughts on maybe any changes u feel can maybe help my list along as i will help yours along.

omg u r need am liek lern spellin n grmr better amirite lolol!!!!

Consider this a verbal warning.  We don't tolerate this trash on TheManaDrain.
-Kowal[/color]

[Wildthing]

I dont want UBg versions, the title of the topic is UBr tog thanks

[Moxlotus]

The only reason I can think of why Sarcatog was run was a way to avoid REB.  Its weak, but that's the only thing I can think of.