MonoBlack: NOT suicide

[martyr]

Good point about the Su Chi. Perhaps maindeck Plague Spitters, or a more solid beatstick depending on the meta.

The mana base I gave is likely to be quite stable. You might have issues with an early Crucible/Wasteland combination, but most decks do.

[Veru_]

well, if plague spitter did go in, shops would probably be better off as ancient tomb/city of traitors.

Enlightended tutor should be REALLY good in this.

[BigMac]

My original build did have one but it got cut as i only used it to get necro or black lotus and a tuto for just 2 others is a slot wasted.

However when MWS is included and with the new build it could get viable again. I will look into this again soon.

[martyr]

I neglected to include the tutors because I'm generally wary of them in Sui-Black...and the original list was too functionally close. But the new list warrants a new look at them.

@Veru_: Well, the general rule to consistently have another blue spell with a Force of Will, consistently, in the early game is 17. We can use this number with Shop, and (excluding Shops, as having double shops isn't useful while double Force is), we have (also, exluding Plague Spitters):

3x Razormane Masticore
4x Juggernaut
4x ??? (Arti-Threat
4x Trinisphere
3x Crucible of Worlds

...which is 18, which is enough. Obviously, it would be more consistent with more like 20-21, and that's something to shoot for, but it's def worth it.

With Plague Spitters, though, you're right. I'm leery of Ancient Tomb, as Spitter deals damage, and it really cuts down on the number of early 3sphere's you're going to drop. I would probably just keep the Workshops in there, actually, as they add too much to the deck to be dropped, but that statement doesn't have the benefit of testing. Ancient Tomb is probably the best way to go, IF you don't play something kewl instead of Su Chi and just go the Spitter route.  Perhaps Null Rod would be a good replacement for 3sphere, with Tomb?

For the time being, I wouldn't change the list. Su Chi's mana is useless for right now, but it's a HUGE body. You might want to try Synod Centurion or maybe even (shudder) Complex Automaton in it's place.

Red might be a good color to consider for support. The big colored spells in the deck are Swords to Plowshares and Duress, and Goblin Welder would add a lot of oomph to the deck without unduly stressing its lands.

It's funny, but we started with MBC, and what I'm suggesting looks like a funky version of the Man Show. So, here's a tentative list:

3x Razormane Masticore
4x Su Chi
4x Juggernaut
2x Sundering Titan

2x Swords to Plowshares
2x Duress
4x Goblin Welder

1x Burning Wish
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Demonic Consultation
1x Yawgmoth's Will

4x Trinishpere
3x Crucible of Worlds

4x Dark Ritual
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
4x City of Brass
4x Gemstone Mine
2x Glimmervoid
4x Mishra's Workshop
4x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
1x Tolarian Academy

SB: 1x Balance

That looks pretty good.

[BigMac]

i would in this list change demonic consultation for enlightened tutor.

My biggest problem with this list is the tolarian academy. It is of colour and probably only to play artifacts, but it is not a real speeding up, as midgame it is to late to make a difference, and early game it is of colour and not fast enough to have mucho mana to the deck up.

I am not to happy about the red either but it could work. The manabase is perhaps not shaky, but vulnerable to say the least.

Glimmervoid is a soso land and city does a lot of dmg to you either way. And i am unsure if you want that in type 1.

But as said it is worth a try.

[Veru_]

Your latest list looks pretty good, though I would add an entomb (Should be nice with CoW and welder. Plus, using it to will out something is always an option.) and an enlightened tutor. I know, it can hurt your drawing, but the fact that it can grab a powerful artifact for one mana is pretty tempting. It'll help the shop's mana production not go to waste, as well.

Oh, and su-chi still seems a bit too hazardous to me. Phyrexian war beast is a bit smaller, but is equally tough to kill, and has a MUCH smaller drawback (what with COW and all). Plus, it's another ritualable/shopable creature on turn one if need be. Thoughts?

This deck is looking really packed, but fitting in a few chains (at least SB) would be a great idea.

[martyr]

"i would in this list change demonic consultation for enlightened tutor. "

...why? Enlightened Tutor is nowhere near Consultation in terms of power level. It slows you down.


"My biggest problem with this list is the tolarian academy."

I figured it would be good w. Will and killing other people's academies and dumping turn 2-3 Sundering Titans, but you've got a point. The on-color mana needs help as it is.

"city does a lot of dmg to you either way"

I am perfectly alright with that. Remember, we were considering Ancient Tomb. City is awesome.

"I would add an entomb"

I dunno...it relies on having the Welders/Crucible in play and active to be anything less than card disadvantage...but it's worth a try.

"Phyrexian war beast is a bit smaller, but is equally tough to kill, and has a MUCH smaller drawback (what with COW and all)"

Now that Welders are in, Su Chi really should stay. Sacrificing a land is a huge drawback, whether it seems like it or not, and Su Chi will trade with other Su Chis and Arrogant Worms: Warbeast will not.

There should definitely be 3-4 Chains of Mephistopheles in the sideboard.

[BigMac]

...why? Enlightened Tutor is nowhere near Consultation in terms of power level. It slows you down.

It may slow you down a bit, but it is way more reliable. You will only use consultation in times of need while enlightened is always good. Why in early game use consultation and perhaps allready either lose or lose so many cards its almost impossible to win. Demonic consultation may give you unexpected wins but it can also crap out on normal searches, making it unreliable and a risk. I would rather lose some tempo for a good wincard than lose randomly due to more speed.

As a comboplayer i have found out that the more stable cards you play the better your chance is of actually winning a tourny because your deck will perform stable. Any deck can crap out, but the less cards that are in there that could be dead or risky plays the more stable a deck can perform throughout a tourny. Demonic consultation is a liability. (at least in my oppinion)

[martyr]

You're not losing "some" tempo to the tutors, you are losing almost an entire turn. This deck is not combo, and it relies on tempo. There is only a miniscule chance of milling enough of your deck to make a difference as long as you're going after cards that are present in multiples. The most common targets would be Titan, 'Core, and Crucible...and sometimes Will (but that's more of a desparation play).

Enlightened Tutor is NOT more powerful and it will NEVER be as good in any other deck that runs little-no card drawing as this one does.

I mean, whatever, you can play Enlightened Tutor, but I think you underestimate the difference between the two.

[maxxx]

plague bearer + phyrexian negator = good game

[Veru_]

plague bearer + phyrexian negator = good game

Um, no?