[Deck] Mono Red Workshop Aggro

[Iron_Chef]

“The Workshop Aggro Combo Breaker”

This is a version of “It’s Raining Men” seen here on SCG.  It is simple, aggressive, and surprisingly consistent.  It also has decent matches against each of the tier 1 decks out there right now.

Mana Sources
    4 Mishra's Workshop
    4 Mishra's Factory
    7 Mountain
    1 Strip Mine
    4 Wasteland
    1 Mana Crypt
    5 Moxen
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Sol Ring

Creatures
    4 Juggernaut
    4 Su-Chi
    4 Goblin Welder
    3 Razormane Masticore

Disruption
    4 Trinisphere
    3 Crucible of Worlds

Best Burn Evarrr
    4 Pyrostatic Pillar
    3 Ankh of Mishra
    4 Lava Dart

// Sideboard
    4  Chalice of the Void
    4  Red Elemental Blast
    3  Spawning Pit
    4  Duplicant

The Obvious Card Choices:

Juggernaut and Su-Chi:  The best artifact fat available for first turn. Plain and simple.

Trinisphere and Crucible:  No, you can’t play your spells.  Yes, Moxen look worse in your hand then in play.

7 Mountains:  Mono Red supports Ankh of Mishra way better and also improves the consistency of the draws.  Not having the correct mana source can really mess you up.  Running 2 color (Mono-Brown splashing red) seems to be the best choice.

The Not So Obvious Card Choices:

Razormane Masticore:  This guy is great.  He has no mana commitment for his abilities.  He trades with the best, including Spirit of the Night and Akroma as long as you used the creature damage ability.

Pyrostatic Pillar:  Because Combo is abound right now this is a necessary maindeck choice.  The damage ramps up incredibly fast, especially with any storm related deck.  It usually knocks down 6-10 pts of damage in the first few turns, speeding up the kill drastically.

Ankh of Mishra:  An absolute house against anything that runs duals (and the fetchlands that support it).  One fetchland makes them take five.  No self-respecting multi color control deck plays 1 land to be able to support itself.  Expect this to deal as much as 14 points of damage in a given game.  Creature finish the job quickly.  Even though Dragon hasn’t made a good showing lately it has to be mentioned that this is an auto-kill against the deck if they go off with it out.  It’s great for a bye against someone who isn’t paying attention.

This is the deck I’ll take to Waterbury.  Any comments? Suggestions? Ridicule? What do you think?

[Whatever Works]

I think you would be better off with CoTV over the lava darts in the maindeck, because lava dart is pretty narrow, and i dont think workshop will be all that prevalent at Waterbury.

Maybe You would be better off also having a few bloodmoon's maindeck sinse you can support them, and perhaps ancient tomb would be a good fit.

I would also switch a ravormine (if not 2 for Duplicant and a sundering titan, but thats just me.) Im a real fan of Thorme's creature base that has a toolbox feel thats been copied heavily for 5/3 lists.

[Iron_Chef]

I've been messing with the creature base recently, and I've found that Duplicant just doesn't cut it AT ALL as a beatstick.  It is awesome in the right matchups, and absoulutely needed because of that, however I've been stuck with 2 duplicants in hand and they do a measly 2 dmg per turn.  Sundering Titan is a thought, although because the deck is mono red it loses alot of the toolbox-enabling cards that help out in 5/3.  No Tinker, no TFK, no draw whatsoever.  Because of this there needs to be a minimum of 3 copies of any business spell that's unrestricted.  Sundering Titan is amazing in the control matches, but my thought is that crucible fulfills the same function at 3 mana.  They don't have any lands left after either is done.

I thought about Blood Moon, but because of the all-important strip effects and Mishra's Factories, I had decided to not use it.  Again, Crucible rapes the manabase enough without having to resort to something that cripples me as well.

Chalice MD over Lava Dart is a good idea.  I'll definitely switch them and test it up.  The logic behind the Lava Dart is that in 50% of the matchups it's a surprise bomb, against a morph critter, goblin welder, or oath tokens.  That's what testing is all about though

Thanks for the suggestions

[Moxlotus]

How exactly do you expect to win against 5/3?  I see NO Rack and Ruins in the sideboard.  When I ran IRM at SCG-Chitown I never wanted to see 5/3 once and you don't even have Rack&Ruins.  I don't see how you can win.  The duplicants help out tons in that match as well.   You also lose to Oath without Duplicant.  Duplicants aren't meant to be beaters-they are meant to be HUGE tempo swings.  Duping a Welder is GG a fair amount of time.

Lava Dart is definitley not maindeck worthy and Spawning Pit is ass.
Sundering Titan is horrible becuase you will have to cast it or take the far shot of discarding to Razormane and Weld.  If you have Razormane you have already won.  Bloodmoons suck because they don't do damage.  The deck needs as much damage to the head as possible.

[zero]

I'll save you some grief, and just tell you to run 5/3. It comes from stacker and its variants, which is what your mono red workshop deck is. You are actually a generation behind in workshop aggro. Ask yourself what you are hoping to accomplish that 5/3 doesn't or can't be tweaked to accomodate. The blue stuff is better than pyrostatic pillar and ankh of mishra, unless you see mostly keeper style decks, which is unlikely these days. Ankh does not stop a good dragon player : active player, non-active player stack effects, etc. Pyrostatic pillar does not necessarily stop storm combo either; you could just run sphere of resistance main/side if you want to increase the chance of getting a hoser in your opening hand. The main problem with old stacker was the lack of a draw engine, which is obviously what blue added, along with the increased consistency from actually seeing more of your deck. Plus, thirst discards to bring your welders online, adding yet another synergy that a mono red deck lacks. It's not that you have bad ideas, it's just that right now there are better ones for workshop aggro that allow for more broken-ness, synergy and consistency.

[Moxlotus]

You are actually a generation behind in workshop aggro. Ask yourself what you are hoping to accomplish that 5/3 doesn't or can't be tweaked to accomodate. The blue stuff is better than pyrostatic pillar and ankh of mishra, unless you see mostly keeper style decks, which is unlikely these days

I'd have to disagree.  Oath and Tog (depending on build) are a little better matchups with this deck than with 5/3.  Combo is IRM's favorite matchup.  5/3 is much better in the Control Slaver matchup however.  The ability to run Mishra's Factory is also often overlooked.  The lack of draw engine does still suck however, but the deck is still slightly more consistant(opening hand wise) than its 5/3 brother.  5/3 has the ability to splash colors for extra options while IRM just focuses on doing 1 thing really good-damage.



Yes, 5/3 does have better synergy with Welder.  For a while we did not even run the full set because, like in Stax, they are only a secondary threat.  They are not a game plan-just something your opponent has to react to.

There are tradeoffs between the 2 decks but it is a mistake to say 1 is clearly superior to the other.  In a Control heavy environment I'd play 5/3.  In a combo filled I'd play IRM.

EDIT:

Pyrostatic pillar does not necessarily stop storm combo

While it may not autowin against TPS, turn 1 Pillar is GG most of the time against Doomsday and Deathlong.

[Covetous]

The lack of a draw engine makes Baby Jesus cry.  I considered trying to run Bazaar/Squee in mono-red stacker, but that is surely ass.  You would have to make the deck into mono-red cerebral assassin, and that is a terrible idea.  I'm not sure if I see any advantage of this deck over RG TnT (with toolbox answers and a 'draw' engine).  Am I missing something?  

Except vs. all workshops, running 4x MD Lava Dart is weak.  I would consider using 2 dupes and 2 trike instead.  I would also consider running Jester's Cap MD or SB.  Just a thought.

[Lost In Admiration]

I'm not sure if I see any advantage of this deck over RG TnT (with toolbox answers and a 'draw' engine).  Am I missing something?

We started with a TnT type deck and found that the engine came out too early to make a difference.  Instead of slower cards, we played more disruption and creatures.  The resulting product is a redunant, resilient deck.

[Vegeta2711]

This sort of build is just obsolete, it used to work because you could draw a lot of disruption or a lot of goons and win. Nowadays you need to draw the disruption more often than not and only 3Sphere is going to affect more than 2 decks.

I'm just going to point out the obvious, a build like this should def. have Trikes and COTV in there somewhere. Lava Dart is all kinds of ass in this kind of a build as well. You'd be way better off playing a MWS deck with a actual draw engine and more colors for anwsers of some sort.

[onelovemachine]

I'm not about smashing someone's ideas into the ground, but I have to agree with zero especially.  Your deck is five three that does fewer things than five three can.  I would also like to point out the horrible synergy of ankh with crucible.  Not very good.

[Moxlotus]

I would also like to point out the horrible synergy of ankh with crucible. Not very good.

How does somebody get around Ankh?  Plya only enough lands they need.  With wastes coming back they need to play more land.  It is even tradeoffs of life and if IRM is losing the damage race than it is over anyways.  Also whether Ankhs are in is a debate currently among teammates mostly depending on metagame predictions.

Trike also costs 6 mana and can't deal with Akroma/SoTN/Titan/Colossus like Dupe does.

I would like people to actually test a few games, only like 5 or so, before completely dismissing the deck.  The lack of draw engine does suck-but the consistancy is still amazing and can't completely suck taking me to 7th at SCG (there's not a chance in hell it was playskill).  
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=8494

The lack of draw doesn't mean lack of consistancy.  I'd say this is one of the most consistant decks there is, next to monoblue.  Every card is mana, fat man, or disruption.  Pyro Pillar is what the deck started out as.  In 5/3 it hurt too much so we cut blue.  Pyro Pillar is a HUGE card right now that everybody underestimates.

We started with TNT and decided that it sucked ass way too much and wasn't consistant at all.

Your deck is five three that does fewer things than five three can.

That is like saying Tog is like GAT, only Tog does fewer things.  Yes it is true to a degree-but does that make it bad or strictly worse?  It only makes it different.  Also how often does 5/3 LOVE playing against combo decks?

EDIT:

People are using the term consistency a lot and there are 3 ways to describe it I think:

1. Frequency of Mulliganning (IRM mulligans a fair amount-but not a lot-but not never either)
2. Redundancy (IRM is very redundant-a lot like Monoblue)
3. Mana Stability (monocolor manabase is very strong)

[Vegeta2711]

I would like people to actually test a few games, only like 5 or so, before completely dismissing the deck. The lack of draw engine does suck-but the consistancy is still amazing and can't completely suck taking me to 7th at SCG (there's not a chance in hell it was playskill).

Hi-ho. Read the report.

Round 1 Dragon: Play against a guy who doesn't even know how his deck works really. Dies game 1 from his own stupidity (Animates Dragon into Ankh and no, it wasn't Necromancy), game 2 features turn 1 Trini.

Round 2 4c: You get a triple waste draw and apparently your opponent doesn't play basics, GG.

Round 3 Oath: You beat JP because he decided to run one dude instead of two.

Round 4 CS: Despite losing, you still manage a game win from 1st turn Trini. How good.

etc. etc. There really are very few if any games in your report you won because you had that kind of a build. I see mistakes, bad opponents and good matches aplenty. But that's about it.

I made Stacker 3 and have tested your specfic build since I'd of been very happy had Stacker been capable of making a comeback. My conclusion was that the only real difference between Stacker and 5/3 was 5/3 ran more broken cards and had TFK for attrition battles.

Pyrostatic Pillar is underplayed, but the fact is 5/3 can also easily play it MD or boarded. Though preferably boarded unless all you see is combo. The fact is it was only really good against Deathlong, Doomsday and decks with Tog in it. Everything else it was either ok or worthless. Fact is you can say your deck loves playing against combo decks, but if 5/3 boards PP like your deck boards COTV, it's got the same arsenal against it.

The deck is singleminded, this much is true. When everyone says it lacks consistency, everyone is saying it lacks any form of resource management or ways to replenish your threats. You draw your 7 cards, hope that they're good and that's it. Your stuck with them. In most games that's good enough, but it tends to bite you in the ass in the rest. Mostly against other MWS decks and CS. Since these are some of the best decks right now, it's hard to justfiy this type of build.

[Moxlotus]

The fact is it was only really good against Deathlong, Doomsday and decks with Tog in it.

That's what I said.  The deck has advantages over 5/3 and some disadvantages.  If your environment has no combo or Tog then don't play the deck.  If it has a bunch of combo and/or Tog then this is a good deck to play.  If you're going to play a bunch of Control Slaver/Goth Slaver then don't play this deck.  Also I've found that 5/3 sucks ass with Pillar.  Also against Oath I won because the massive amount of creatures I play also-5/3 couldn't have pulled that match from its butt.

[Carlos]

The deck is singleminded, this much is true. When everyone says it lacks consistency, everyone is saying it lacks any form of resource management or ways to replenish your threats. You draw your 7 cards, hope that they're good and that's it. Your stuck with them. In most games that's good enough, but it tends to bite you in the ass in the rest. Mostly against other MWS decks and CS. Since these are some of the best decks right now, it's hard to justfiy this type of build.

Can this be fixed with the addition of Grafted Skullcap?

[Carlos]

The deck is singleminded, this much is true. When everyone says it lacks consistency, everyone is saying it lacks any form of resource management or ways to replenish your threats. You draw your 7 cards, hope that they're good and that's it. Your stuck with them. In most games that's good enough, but it tends to bite you in the ass in the rest. Mostly against other MWS decks and CS. Since these are some of the best decks right now, it's hard to justfiy this type of build.

Can this be fixed with the addition of Grafted Skullcap?

[MuzzonoAmi]

Skullcap isn't even remotely as good as Mind's Eye here because you want tons and tons of threats, not the chance of one per turn. Mind's Eye also lets you outdraw your opponent. The problem lies in the fact that it costs 5 mana and eats a whole turn - cantripping is a best-case scenario. If you want to make this work,  you need Wheel, if nothing else. IMO, cut the Lava Darts for Chalices,  and find some way to include 2 Mind's Eye and Wheel of Fortune.  This looks like it has some potential, but you NEED to be able to keep up your threats, and you can't do that being outdrawn 6:1.