Card Discussion: Trash for Treasure

[JamesPr]

Trash for Treasures seems at first glance something that can be very powerful.  It's like a blue Tinker, but for the graveyard.  Which as everyone already knows Tinker is just broken.  So the question is what type of deck would Trash for Treasure be best in. The graveyard of course is a very powerful resource, that can be utilized and abused by many many cards.

TNT Build (Courtesy of JuggernautGO 13th at Waterbury.
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Sol Ring
4 Tropical Island
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Mishra’s Workshop
1 Pentavus
4 Juggernaut
4 Trinisphere
2 Mindslaver
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Thrist for Knowledge
4 Goblin Welder
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Triskelion
1 Sundering Titan
1 Duplicant
1 Karn Silver Golem
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Squee Goblin Nabob
1 Anger
1 Mana Vault

Sideboard:
3 Fire/Ice
1 Genesis
1 Viashino Heretic
2 Rack and Ruin
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Stifle
4 Chalice of the Void

His revised deck
mana sources: 25
4 mishra's workshop
8 solomoxcrypt
4 taiga
2 FOREST (go basic)
3 wooded foothills
1 tolarian academy
1 darksteel citadel
1 ancient tomb
1 mana vault

utility/draw: 9
4 survival of the fittest
2 crucible of worlds
2 fire/ice
1 memory jar

combo: 4
1 fastbond
1 zuran orb
2 staff of domination

creatures:23
4 juggernaut
4 goblin welder
4 metalworker
2 arcbound overseer (wtf is this card doing here???)
2 arcbound ravager
1 razormane masticore (want to run 2, it's a monster against welders)
1 karn silver golem
1 sundering titan
1 squee
1 anger
1 duplicant
1 triskelion

side:
1 uktabi orangutan
2 chalice of the void
2 naturalize
4 sphere of resistance (I lost an entirely too close match to tps in top 16 this card would have made the difference)
3 tormod's crypt
2 rack and ruin
1 oxidize

It seems Trash for Treasure would be powerful in these decks, except they all seem to be missing something that TFT really needs, more card advantage.  TFT just like Tinker if it get's countered you're out a mox or something and the spell, so It's a two in one loss.  The best way I can think of to deal with this is to play the Bazaar+Squee combo in addition to the already powerful Survivals with Goblin Welders, using Sundering Titans as the TFT bait.

4x Goblin Welder
4x Survival of the Fittest

4x Trash for Treasure
4x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Tinker
1x Darksteel Colossus
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Memory Jar

3x Sundering Titan (Seems like overkill but you want it asap for TFT)
4x Squee Goblin Nabob
4x Basking Rootwalla (This may seem like a weird choice but their synergy with survival and bazaar is amazing.)
1x Anger
1x Triskelion
1x Duplicant

1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Emerald
1x Black Lotus
1x Sol Ring
3x Wooded Foothills
2x Windswept Health
4x Taiga
4x Tropical Island
4x Volcanic Island
4x Bazaar of Baghdad

This is an initial list that might be decent while using TFT.  With proper scrutiny this deck could turn into something formidable and powerful.

[Yokomoto]

See the thing about Trash for Treasure is its a one time Weld(er). Welder based decks don't need things like that because they have the welder. It will never be seen in type 1 and for as long as its been out I don't think it will be seen in type 2 either.

[JamesPr]

If Welder's the most broken creature in type1 I'd gladly play 8 ways to utilize It's ability.  Plus Welder's vulnerable as it's a creature, in addition many times you can't even get it's ability off.  Think of it this way you're upping your ability to win outright by four cards.

[Yokomoto]

Plus Welder's vulnerable as it's a creature, in addition many times you can't even get it's ability off.  

How so is it that many times you can't get its ability off?

I think Trash for Treasure is just not needed. Sure it would be interesting to run, but it's just a bad card.

[JamesPr]

In this deck you need a Sundering Titan in your graveyard to win.  If you wait around three turns till you get one chances are your welder's already dead.  Trash is not bad It's a Tinker for the graveyard, I already said that.  Four graveyard Tinkers with survival is just broken.

[Yokomoto]

If you wait around for a titan sure the welder might be dead but thats why we run 4

[Jacob Orlove]

Between Anger and Survival, Welder is pretty much strictly superior to Trash For Treasure in every way possible. So, since you don't actually need the ability of Trash, you have to compare it to other cards you could run, like disruption.

[LSD]

Between Anger and Survival, Welder is pretty much strictly superior to Trash For Treasure in every way possible. So, since you don't actually need the ability of Trash, you have to compare it to other cards you could run, like disruption.

I won´t argue that Thrash for Treasure is better than Welder but since in a format were almost every Deck has a way to kill Welder Trash for Treasure could be a secondary way to get an artifact after a Thirst of Knowledge.I can imagine that the Control Slaver variants that splash Black could add Entomb in the Maindeck to support Trash for Treasure.The list from Smmenen that I recently saw on SCG used a single copy of Crucible as well as a Strip Mine.So entomb might not be a that odd choice.TfT(heh) would also interact with Intuition.

I am not claiming that it should deserve a MD slot in Control Slaver/Goth Slaver I am sure that it definatly should be tested.



On TnT:Since this Deck can win without Welder Trash for Treasures seems unnecessary to me.Instead of Trash for Treasures it used Survival which is a better choice since it can guarantuee you a long term pressure on your oppenent while the single creature you get with TfT can easiely be Sworded.

[jpmeyer]

Don't bump really old threads[/color]