Parfait Discussion Thread

[bmueller]

Foreword: This is not exactly a Newbie discussion.  The purpose here is redesigning an archtype to contend in a competative metagame.  Unfortunately, Parfait has not exactly taken many top 8 places in recent history.  Hopefully, that will soon change.  In any case, take this discussion seriously.

If I am not mistaken, the new Legacy format was designed with the intention of eliminating most competative Vintage archtypes.  The restriction of Land Tax signals to me that WoTC acknowledges Parfait as or what could be a viable archtype in the future.  Does WoTC know something we do not?  Are new cards that will aid Parfait scheduled for release?  Who knows.  I am intrigued.

What is "Parfait" anyway?

(Dictionary.com) par·fait (pär-f) n.

   1. A dessert made of cream, eggs, sugar, and flavoring frozen together and served in a tall glass.
   2. A dessert made of several layers of different flavors of ice cream or ices, variously garnished and served in a tall glass.

No no no... wait

Parfait is a white based control deck that used to be popular way back when. The deck has traditionally used the Land Tax and Scroll rack engine to generate lots of card advantage, the equivalent of one Ancestral every upkeep.  Originally, parfait used Sacred Mesa as a win condition, and when onslaught came out, some players switched to Mobilization. With mirrodin, Goblin Charbelcher is the finisher of choice for most, due to its excellent synergy with land tax.

There have been many different multicolor variants, all of which seem subpar to me except for one.  I'm going to pause and supply a decklist:

11 Plains
3 Mountains
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt

4 Land Tax
4 Scroll Rack
2 Goblin Charbelcher
2 Zuran Orb

4 Seal of Cleansing
3 Humility
3 Blood Moon

4 Orim's Chant
4 Argivian Find
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Slice and Dice
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Burning Wish
1 Balance

SB
4 REB
2 Abolish
2 Rule of Law
2 True Believer
1 Ivory Mask
--Wish Box--
1 Replenish
1 Tariff (Inexpensive compared to Wrath of God, it works against most of the field, while also catching DSC.)
1 Arc Lightning (Better than Slice here because it can get Jugs for cheap and can hit the head)
1 Dust to Dust (Good artifact removal at sorcery speed)


Other key considerations:

Aura of Silence - Slows down Workshop, Combo, and the dreaded Pernicious Deed.  Works like the Anti-Trinisphere if cast first turn with a Black lotus.  However, the fact that it comes out a turn later than other removal without acceleration significantly hinders it in this meta.

Isochron Scepter - Allows for some broken plays with REB, StP, and of course Orim's Chant, but is generally too slow for supplementary use and often becomes card disadvantage.

Many other defensive enchantments (Karmic Justice, Solitary Confinement, Story Circle, the list goes on...)

Matchups - to be discussed in detail in the thread, here are some very brief overviews

Welder/Workshop Based (5/3, 7/10, Trinistax, Slaver, TnT...)
Humility is the game winner in this matchup--stops Welder and fat artifact creatures flat.  Blood Moon can also stall long enough to win.  A huge arsenal of artifact removal ties everything together.
Maindeck Hate [16]: Seal of Cleansing, Humility, Blood Moon, StP, Slice and Dice
SB Hate [5]: Abolish, Tariff, Arc Lightning, Dust to Dust

Oath
StP and Seals are the primary weapons.  Orim's Chant and Argivian Find backs them up.  Blood Moon and Humility are also good preventative measures.  The focus in this matchup is trying to play Belcher through all of the counters.  REBs makes this somewhat easier post SB.  Abolish to aid in removal.
Maindeck Hate [16]: Seal of Cleansing, StP, Humility, Blood Moon, Slice and Dice (tokens)
SB Hate [6]: REB, Abolish

Combo (TPS, Doomsday, Dragon, Belcher)
These are very difficult matchups the first game.  Chant, StP, Seals, against TPS, Dragon, Belcher, accordingly.  Again, Blood Moon can randomly steal games.  After SB we have several defensive enchantments to combat combo.
Maindeck Hate [~11]: Orim's Chant, Seal of Cleansing, Blood Moon, StP against Dragon
SB Hate [9]: REB, Rule of Law, Ivory Mask, True Believer

AggroControl and Aggro (Bazaar Madness, Fish, R/G beats and other rogue decks)
Lots of removal with Humility and Chants to stall.  Argivian Finds recover from opposing hate.
Maindeck Hate [16]: Humility, StP, Slice and Dice, Balance, Zuran Orb, Orim's Chant
SB Hate [6]: Arc Lightning, Tariff, REB

As you can see, the threats in this deck are fairly versatile against the metagame and still potent.

This is obviously a work in progress.  I would love to hear any tournament experiences from anyone who has recently played a form Parfait.

[Toad]

I like when you say Humility is a game winner against Stax along with Blood Moon.

Zuran Orb is terrible and Isochron Scepter is the way to go now.

[bmueller]

I like when you say Humility is a game winner against Stax along with Blood Moon.

Sorry, let me rephrase: Humility is a game winner against Welder, and Blood Moon against Workshop, respectively.

Zuran Orb is terrible and Isochron Scepter is the way to go now.

Zuran Orb is an essential part of the Tax Rack engine, also stalls aggro (sometimes even TPS and Belcher, for that matter), and allows for some broken plays with Balance.  In practice, 2 count is necessary.

Honestly, Isochron is an amazing card, but it makes Parfait unfocused and slow.  The spells that are needed to imprint already have purposes with which that strategy interferes.

[Rancor1]

I think that this deck is having trouble for the same reason landstill, and all other true control decks, are having trouble; they can's win. To elaborate, you can chant meandeath, so he'll win on the next turn. You'll play an Ivory Mask, so he'll wish for an answer. You don't have a threat on the table stealing time away from him. Same goes for most other matchups. Add Exalted Angel. Just try it. It will win games, not as a finisher, but as a method of stealing tempo, and putting enough pressure on the opponent so that he cannot do anything.

[bmueller]

I think that this deck is having trouble for the same reason landstill, and all other true control decks, are having trouble; they can's win. To elaborate, you can chant meandeath, so he'll win on the next turn.

Which meandeath are you talking about?  If you chant Doomsday combo while he's trying to go off and it gets through, that's a win.

Chanting an Oath player during his upkeep to stall an attack is hardly a good idea.  In that matchup, Chant should be used to force through solutions; say, Humility.

You'll play an Ivory Mask, so he'll wish for an answer.

None of the Meandeck builds use Wish.  TPS usually has 1 Wish and 1 Bounce to deal with Ivory Mask.

You don't have a threat on the table stealing time away from him. Same goes for most other matchups. Add Exalted Angel. Just try it. It will win games, not as a finisher, but as a method of stealing tempo, and putting enough pressure on the opponent so that he cannot do anything.

One of the biggest advantages Parfait has is its ability to remain creatureless.  This aspect nullifies many of the opponents cards and allows you to play insane removal like Slice and Dice and Tariff.  Exalted is fragile, and at 4 power is hardly a major threat.

Why play Exalted when, for the same cost, you can drop a Charbelcher and win?  That looming threat is more pressuring than any spirit linked flyer.

[Rancor1]

Did I write meandeck? Sorry! I meant meandeath. It has five wishes.

There are infinite ways to fizzle a doomsday combo. It does, however, play 8 discard spells and FoWs.

You shouldn't be having too much difficulty with Oath anyway.

None of the Meandeck builds use Wish. TPS usually has 1 Wish and 1 Bounce to deal with Ivory Mask.

TPS also has FoW and Duress.

One of the biggest advantages Parfait has is its ability to remain creatureless. This aspect nullifies many of the opponents cards and allows you to play insane removal like Slice and Dice and Tariff. Exalted is fragile, and at 4 power is hardly a major threat.

Why play Exalted when, for the same cost, you can drop a Charbelcher and win? That looming threat is more pressuring than any spirit linked flyer.

Exalted is what made 4cc playable over the summer. Slice and Dice doesn't kill Exalted, and with it on the board, it nullifies the need for things like tariff. You also play enough lands to make Charbelcher a bit slower than a looming threat.

[Roxas]

I played Parfait at SCG2.  I have two words for you:

Give up.  

Seriously, though, this deck hasn't a chance in hell in this metagame.  Combo is highly prominent.  The best control deck, Oath, is beatable but not easy at all because it has almost as many counters as you have threats.  First-turn Trinisphere still kills you a very large percentage of the time.  The only thing Parfait consistently beats is straight aggro, does not exist in Vintage anymore.

[Tristal]

Depends on how you build the deck, Reb.  Parfait is a deck as flexible, if not moreso, than 4CC as far as metagame capabilities - if you don't see as much aggro, replace those Humilities with Auras, or Orim's Chants, and play maindeck Blood Moons.

Either way though, the less discussion abounds about Parfait, the better, as it is pretty ridiculously easy to hate out if it ever became a viable deck.

[Relient_dashboard]

I've been playtesting Parfait for months, using the crazy 88's spinoff. It's not really that much the same as the original, but hey, it's really good.

10 Plains
6 Mountain
2 Plateau


4 Gorilla Shaman
4 Eternal Dragon


1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Balance
4 Humility
4 Seal of Cleansing
2 Blood Moon
2 Argivian Find
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Skullclamp
4 Raise the Alarm
2 Sacred Mesa
2 Decree of Justice


Sideboard:
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Serenity
3 Rack and Ruin
2 Exalted Angel


Pretty self explanatory if you know how crazy 88's works. This version substitutes two mesas for two decree, which works wonders. Control isn't a problem, as long as you get your two main silver bullets down ( humility & blood moon). After that, you can slow roll for the win.

[Khahan]

Seems to me you guys are missing a card that SHOULD work wonders in this aggro meta game....Moat, or on a more budget scale, Island Sanctuary.

Moat stops any red decks (I still see Goblins and variants of RDW at some tourneys). None of them have anything that can handle moat.
It stops MWS (assuming you resolve the moat).
It slows down 7/10 (though they can still weld the titan to take out lands...but then again, parfait can perform w/ very few lands).
Ok, so it doesn't do a think against Dragon and MUC. There are a few prevalent decks that moat can't handle. But thats why we have sideboards.

I've been interested in trying out parfait for quite a while now and it looks like Moat can provide quite a few good answers.

[Discozombie]

here is my old budget Parfait deck, mono white

Trailer Trash (AKA idiot’s Parfait)

Stall/Anti Counter (4)
4 Orim’s Chant

Removal (8)
4 Swords to plowshares
4 Seal of Cleansing

Recursion (4)
4 Replenish

Bombs (9)
3 Humility
3 Ivory Mask
3 Kismet

Tax/Rack (7)
4 Land Tax
3 Scroll Rack

Kill (3)
3 Sacred Mesa

Tools (2)
1 Balance
1 Enlightened Tutor

Mana (23)
1 Sol Ring
14 Plains
4 Crystal Vein
4 Remote Farm

reduncany makes up for lack of draw and with so few artifacts and no black lotus argivian find can leave for a full pack of replenishes.  It also allows the player to go, over the top and dump enchantments with land tax to then cast out later.  Kismet is an over looked tech in this deck that aids in slowing down many decks, shuts down dragon, messes with fetch lands and hurts welder tricks.

[Rancor1]

@Khahan:
Humility does all of these things, and stops welders, Fish creatures, and goblin recruiter & company. FCG can always side in naturalize.

@Discozombie:

4 Replenish

Why are your enchantments just flooding into the graveyard?

Also, try Mobilization over Sacred Mesa.

[Revvik]

I like when you say Humility is a game winner against Stax along with Blood Moon.

Sorry, let me rephrase: Humility is a game winner against Welder, and Blood Moon against Workshop, respectively.

I believe what Toad meant here was, "against $T4KS, good luck casting your sorcery-speed pseudo-wins."

The problem with Parfait is its lack of fast, efficient disruption / early game plays.  If the game stretches out long enough, then the draw engine combined with a massive token kill might be able to scratch out a win.

But NO DECK IN THE FORMAT will leave that big of a window open for you.  Not even Fish.  I think one of the only saving graces of this classic deck in today's field would be a superb player, or luck with Scepter/Chant.

[Rancor1]

NO DECK IN THE FORMAT will leave that big of a window open for you. Not even Fish.

Why I earlier suggested Exalted Angel as a win condition.

[Discozombie]

Rancor1:That's my budget list, the 4 replenishes are there for lack of XL.  Over tax so you have to dump multiple enchantments into the graveyard then replenish them out.  Exhalted angel is not an option for parfait since humility is one of its most powerful weapons.

[Revvik]

NO DECK IN THE FORMAT will leave that big of a window open for you. Not even Fish.

Why I earlier suggested Exalted Angel as a win condition.

Exalted Angel still doesn't help the decks early stabilization / doesn't help in the first two turns of tempo struggles.  While certainly a good card in her own right, what must be remembered is that putting good cards in a deck doesn't necessarily mean you have a good deck.

Technically, a massive Pegasi / Soldier token kill could happen in one swing instead of five with Exalted.

I'm not even sure this deck can accomplish much beyond a color splash, and that has been discussed pretty extensively.

Unfortunately, quoting Dr. Phil leads us directly to probably the splash that would be best usable:

...play blue cards instead.

So what would blue offer this deck?  What is needed is longevity - make it to the mid-late game when the powerful tax-rack draw engine can overwhelm your opponent.  

Looking at some of the card choices offered by blue (I hear these cards are good):
On-Color U/W Fetch (duals are unnecessary)
Brainstorm
Force of Will
Disrupting Shoals (Parfait has a lot of cards at varying casting costs)
Standstill (works well with Replenish)
Ancestral Recall
Bounce Spells at varying CCs
Cunning Wish
etc.

Now, since this is obviously a control deck, let's look at how some of today's modern control decks are killing people:
Control Slaver: Infinite lock
Psychatog/Hulk Smash: One swing with 'Tog
Oath of Druids: Two swings with flying beaters

I.E., these decks are killing all at once.  This can be imitated with Goblin Charbelcher, though not as effectively as the R/W versions.
Still, the options available to a U/W are either this or Serra's Sanctum/Mobilization (or whatever the other enchantment was).

Could a configuration utilizing the suggested cardpool be disruptive enough to bring Parfait back to contention?

[Khahan]

@Khahan:
Humility does all of these things, and stops welders, Fish creatures, and goblin recruiter & company. FCG can always side in naturalize.

Good point, I was looking at the aggro scenario in a vacuum and disregarding other aspects of the game.

As for the suggestion of splashing (U), in theory it sounds like a great idea.
After all, blue is the end-all-be-all color in T1 right now.
The problem is, I think it would need too many slots set to blue. What would be taken out?  Unfortunately I think you need to cut into the meat of the deck and you'd no longer have parfait.  You may end up with some weird U/W control variant.

Still, though, its very interesting. I think some of the pieces of parfait may work quite well with blue. Land Tax, Balance, swords to plow shares, cursed scroll, zuran orb, mana drain, force of will, ancestral, time walk.
Perhaps add a few other control elements like tangle wire, damping matrix (they're the first two that pop into my mind).

Maybe I'll tinker with this a bit and see if something 'not laughable' can be put together.

[Rancor1]

On the Replenish issue: playing four cards that are entirely dependent on another four is a bit of a gamble. They seem dead later on as you begin to empty your hand. Admittedly, you'll keep some cards in hand, but not too many more than seven.

Technically, a massive Pegasi / Soldier token kill could happen in one swing instead of five with Exalted.

But how many turns does it (practically) take to create enough soldier tokens to win in one turn? At least Exalted steals back tempo from things like fish. I could see tapping out at the end of his turn for just enough tokens to win in one attack next turn, but for the most part, that just won't  happen.

I think that there was already a Parfait/u thread. It lost too much and gained too little.

[Revvik]

The token-generating enchantments interact well with Serra's Sanctum.  Imagine if you have 2 Land Taxes, the enchantment in question, a Humility, and a Standstill.  <shrug>

And Replenish would be for more than just the Standstills - it would recover lost/discarded lock components like Humility and Moat, or any destroyed Sacred Mesas.  It also gives the Sanctum a huge boost.

It lost too much and gained too little.

Technically, this could be said about the entire archetype once people started innovating away from Mono White Control.

[Discozombie]

here is an idea I have been tinkering with for the addition of blue

Blueberry Parfait

Engine (8)
4 Land Tax
4 Stand Still

Removal (8)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Seal of Cleansing

Recursion (6)
4 Argivian Find
2 Replenish

Bombs (8)
2 Kismet
2 Humility
2 Back to Basics
2 Arcane Laboratory

Restricted Goodies (4)
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Balance
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Enlightened Tutor

Kill (3)
3 Sacred Mesa

Mana (23)
7 SoLoMoxen
8 Plains
8 Island

[Ergil]

Two ideas. 1) Firestorm. Cheap mass removal. 2) Gamble. With 10 cards in hand Gambling for Balance or whatever should be pretty good.

[Rancor1]

Firestorm

Unnecesary in a matchup you wouldn't win anyway.

Gamble

With a weak draw engine, you won't always have a land tax, and therefore won't have 10 cards in hand.

[goobafish]

i got bored in class today and i thought that Goblin Trenches may be a viable win condition for cherry parfait. The Isochrons are tech, especially with chant. The trenches could be ideal, with the mass amount of lands you generate via Land Tax. Also you can sac your lands so you have less lands than your opponent in order to Tax. An interesting idea, definately worth toying arount with at 3cc . Also works with replenish (if you need to play it). What do you guys think?

[Vegeta2711]

Since MacGyver couldn't use the rubber band or paper clip, I've used them to make a clue for you guys.

1. Abolish should be maindeck, in fact multiples of it. Do not remove seals though.
2. You NEED to be able to power out Humility and Rule of Law (Faster than Ivory Mask. keeps combo from going off and helps to slow other decks). Or at least powering out a Scepter immediately. This means the closer you can get to full power and mana accel, the better.
3. Black is still a great splash. The ability to run Duress and tutors is huge.
4. Blood Moon is neat, but not the end all be all it used to be. 2 should be plenty probably.
5. Zuran Orb is god awful.
6. I don't have a list for it, but if you become fully powered and ran the black tutors in addition to the ET you're allowed. Then Scepter actually becomes a viable option and honestly a lot faster and more useful than most of your options.

In conclusion.
6-8 Disenchant effects with plow + Moxen to accel your slower crap + some of the other shit mentioned + a lotta luck.

Really what Parfait needs is a Balance-eqsue card based purely on how many Plains you have. Then maybe it could be competitve on some level.

[Tristal]

What does Abolish hit that makes it so absolutely necessary?  If it killed Trinisphere for free, I'd agree.

Zuran Orb, at the very least, is quite funny against storm combo if they can't get more than 10-11 storm.

[Rancor1]

Zuran Orb, at the very least, is quite funny against storm combo if they can't get more than 10-11 storm.

Stom would win before you had enough lands to effect their combo too much.

[myhellfire1134]

I have an idea i was working on for a little while now. BLueberry Parfait. I found that with the addition of FOrce of will, you have a chance of fighting force of will. With mana drain you can get out those four mana enchantments and still be alive. And while im talking about 4 mana enchantments i run one copy of moat becuase with humility out no one can attack. Also Moat stops juggernauts, 7/10's. Theres two things it doesn;t stop from attacking and thats faries and Plat angel. Another advanatage of blue is brainstorm. I have always found it lacking of draw. Also the Chant on a Stick thing works pretty damn well.

Blueberry Parfait

Spells
2 Argivian Find
1 Balance
4 Brainstorm
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Orim's Chant
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Tinker


Enchantments
2 Rule of Law
2 Humility
4 Land Tax
1 Moat


Artifacts
2 Goblin Charbelcher
2 Isochron Scepter
1 Mox Pearl
3 Scroll Rack
1 Mox Saphhire
2 Zuran Orb


Lands
7 Island
9 Plains  



Sideboard (15 cards)
2 Abolish
2 Aura of Silence
1 Humility
3 Ivory Mask
3 Rule of Law
1 Ivory Tower
3 Tormod's Crypt

[Bakes]

I suggest you run a third belcher. This deck sometimes has a hard time getting the kill.

[bonblaireau]

I think a third kill is a great idea but no adding a third belcher. In the current metagame it's interesting to play an altenative kill as mesa for example. Mesa is good against null rod and matrix, and with luck before a trinisphere it can do very good things if you play under tangle wire or smokestack.