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Author Topic: [deck] Lotus Salvage  (Read 1328 times)
Warmonger
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« on: February 12, 2005, 08:39:48 am »

This combo is nothing new, but I don't see any list that could use it. Here it is:
Auriok Salvagers
Black Lotus

Easy-to-reach way of generating endless mana. It' clear. Unfortunatelly, black lotus must become a part of full-powered deck.

Now let's find good finisher. He it is:
Pyryite Spellbomb

It works with salvager. Just take million Red&White mana and frag the opponent. It could also destroy Platinum Angel, or may be useful againsts threats like Goblin Welder or Koblod combo. It's artifact source, so protection won't save any creatures.

Okay, we know what we need. But how get it? All tutors are restricted, but there are:
Survival of The Fittest - very powerful card, still played in Vintage.
Artificer's Intuition - In full-powered deq, it's perfect way to find lotus.

It looks so:

Manabase:
1 Black lotus

Combo:
4 Auriok salavgers
4 Pyrite Spellbomb

Tutoring and other stuff:
4 Survival of the fittest
4 Artificer's Intuition

Now, let's use those powerfull enchantments and trasform our deck into:
Survival
2 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Genesis - we really need salvagers in play
TNT:
4 Goblin Welder
1 Anger
1 Platinum Angel (against combos)
Full-Powered list:
1 Ancestrall Recall
1 Wheel of Fortune
NO Timetwister - it could be handy against dragon, but it does'nt work with our graveyard manipulation and tutoring.
No Yagmoth's will - there is no sence in putting our graveyard into play, while our artifacts stop working.
5 Moxes
1 Lotus petal
1 Chrome mox - We need speed more than 3 survivals
1 Mana vault
1 Sol ring
1 Mana Crypt
NO Grim Monolith - it does nothing with intuition, we need more colorfull mana.

Now, we've got two different totoring engines. Let's combine match them by using artifatc creature with converted man cost 1 or less.

Myr Servitor

It's great with welder, can also stop agressive Jggernouts or FCG. It
prevents effect of Smokestack. But we need all four if it's going to work.

With welder and servitors, adding Mindslaver would be cool. But there is no wa to seek for it. But there isone broken card that makes it possible: intuition. It also puts our genesis and other nice things, such as combo parts, in range of our salvagers and welder.
. But too mcuh tutors makes deck unstable.
-1 Artficer's Intu
-1 Survival
+2 Intuition
+1 Mindlaver

So we've got total 43 cards. Let's left 22 of all as manabase and put control elements in.
There are 6 free slots posible. We need hate for Dragon, Worshop, and Oath. Controls wolud have problems with our rising army (Servitors, Squee, Genesis, Salvagers).
Dragon - Grave Removal, Instant creature removal
Oath - Creature Removal, Way_to_avoid_orchard
Workhop- Artifatc hate, especially something against trinisphere.
There is also some card which stops all our winning conditions - Null rod. We have to hate it.

Artifact Hatte - Oxidize, Naturalize, Craetures as Uktabi Orangutan or Viridian Zealot. I choose Naturalize in order to destroy other stuff, such as Animate Dead, Ilusions of Grandeur or Necropotence.
Against Dragon and Oath i will use aether Spellbomb - cheap artifact 4 1 mana, tutorable and working with welder or salvagers.

Main deck:
4 Auriok Salvagers
4 Pyrite Spellbomb
3 Artificer's Intu
3 Survival
2 Intuition
4 Goblin Welder
4 Myr Servitor
1 Platinum Angel
1 Mindslaver
1 Anger
1 Genesis
2 Squee
4 Naturalize
2 Aether Spellbomb
1 Ancestrall Recall
1 Wheel of Fortune

4 white, 10/12 Red, 7 green, 7 Cards using blue mana

5 Moxes
1 Black lotus
1 mana crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
Lands:
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Plateau
1 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
2 Forbidded orchard - our servitors will protect us, it's also pre-side against Oath.

That's all, check this out and listen to the Tiesto.
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Koffie
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« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2005, 09:28:57 am »

you dont even play lions eye diamond? same effect if you got pyrite spellbomb in grave...
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Methuselahn
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« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2005, 10:06:06 am »

Welcome to TheManaDrain.  Smile

First off, the search function is a good tool.  Searching for Salvagers with the search function will net you a good number of threads on this combo.

95%+ of the community is aware of this combo.

How does your proposed list fare against it's difficult matchups?  What are the difficult matchups?  Why is your list better than the other Salvager lists?
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emo_basher
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2005, 12:35:09 am »

i think trinket mage would be better than artificer's intuition in here because with the stuff in your list, it looks like it would be easier to find a trinket mage than it would be to find an artificer's intuition to help find all your combo pieces.
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Marton
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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2005, 03:45:04 am »

this deck has so many wrong things its not even funny.

First part first, it contains many redundant parts within the deck. This might seem good in a pure combo deck, but theyre all sub-optimal for their task.

Second, you're playing the deck in pure combo fashion, which means, if you want to have a chance at winning, you need to play either:

-turn 1/2 kill (à la meandeck SX)
-counters to protect combo
-disruption (usually in the form of duress or xantid swarm)

Third, your deck has no protection whatsoever for it's combo, and has no chance in hell of killing without the combo part (it's not like you play the welders and servitors for beatdown purpose). I can see you stealing some wins thru beatdown, but if your deck had this purpose in mind, then your creature choices would reflect that, and obviously here, they dont. The third problem, and one that isn't fixed before you address problem #2, is that you play a combo deck that is easily stopped. chalice of the void, trinisphere, null rod, damping matrix and ground seal will totally hose you.

Problem number 4: where is lion's eye diamond? I can understand you don't need it that much with all the artificers intuition, but still it should be there.

Problem number 5: You cannot stop anything that your opponent plays. This is a bit of a repetition of problem 4, but really isn't. I'm not referring to hate against your deck, but stuff like your opponent actually playing anything good, which you cannot stop or do anything against it.

Problem number 6: You stand no chance against combo. They combo turn 1 or turn 2, and you lose, thats the way it works, and you can't stop it.

Problem number 7: crucible of world/wasteland totally hose you. null rod is very bad against you. back to basic will totally kill you. There's also blood moon you might want to look out for. Of course, I left out sundering titan.

Problem number 8: where is the card advantage? where is your draw card?

Problem number 9: Many, many, many of your choices are EXTREMELY redundant, and poor. Survival of the fittest and artificer's intuition are VERY mana intensive in their respective colors. They are probably utterly unworkable together, and there's not much you can do about it. The same can be said about workshop and mana drains: they just aren't made to be together. Unless the metagame allows you to consistently get access to tropical island, then i don't think you can play both survival of the fittest and artificer's intuition. If you want to play combo, then put some real tutors. Put demonic tutor, vampiric tutor, and whatever else you feel like playing. You may also play draw-7s as 'tutors' if you feel lucky.

You really do not need 2 squees, particularly considering that you only have 3 survival. Squees are only playable with survival, in which case 1 should be enough.

Anger can only be used if you have a mountain into play. And what do you need haste for anyway? You can combo-out the turn auriok salvagers comes into play since it's ability doesnt includes tapping in its cost. This card choice is utterly useless.

Genesis is arguably the worst card choice in your deck. You will die before you get the mana to play it, and it's only good if it's in the graveyard. Even worse, you have nothing good to use it's ability on anyway. This card can only be playable if you play intuition or survival, and in both cases its very bad because intuition the player will likely give it to you since they utterly wont care that you draw it.

The goblin welders are such a poor choice, it's not even funny. First, the *ONLY* good thing to weld back in is platinum angel and mindslaver. The problem now is, you can only get the platinum angel 'easily' of the both of them because of survival. And even then, putting back in a platinum angel is nothing that is gonna put a headache to your opponent. Your opponent is going to be VERY GLAD that you survivalled-out a platinum angel instead of some monster like sundering titan (even though it would suck in your deck). If you want the infinite slaver engine, dont use the laughable myr servitor engine, put 1x pentavus and 4x survival, but be warned that i stringly advice you not to. Then there's the mindslaver. Which you can't cast easily. And that you can hardly get in your graveyard. Your deck simply cannot support this card.

Myr servitor is very laughable, as i said before. It is a poor choice no matter how you try to justify it. It's not good at anything except getting people to point and laugh. The effect is very sub-par, it's only 'good' if you have many (which you shouldn't since you should be getting cards that are ACTUAL THREATS, not just random junk that don't do anything).

Then there's the absolute random. 4x pyrite spellbomb and 2x aether spellbomb. Sure, you need those to combo out. But why do you put 6x of those when you play intuition and artificiers intuition to get them?

There's also lotus petal, but tht's just a nitty gritty detail compared to all the glaring problems. And god are the orchards random.


To say things bluntly, the only thing I agree with you in this decklist is: black lotus and 4x auriok steelshaper and 2x aether spellbomb (I would put 3/4, but at least you put some). You want to play combo, but you can't get your combo out fast, you cant stop your opponent from doing his broken stuff, and you can't even protect your combo, which is fragile by nature. To make things worse, not only is your combo fragile, but so is your mana base. Try to play this against any good player and you will understand very quickly all of your mistakes.
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Warmonger
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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2005, 08:20:46 am »

Well, You're right, but:

-Genesis is needed, becose it's hard to Win without Salvagers. It colud also rise Welder or a pack of servitors.
-Anger makes my Welders unstopable - faster is better.
-I can discard Mindslaver for Artificder's Intuition.
-Welders are very useful. They work with myrs, they could also give me used Lotus back. Lotus is a fats way of putting salvagers into play.
-Card adavantage can be reached by:
Squee+survival
Welder+Myrs
Salvagers+Small Artifacts
I have a ton of tutoring and Spellbombs are recyclable, so i don't need draw like Fact or Fiction.
-Platinum Angel is of course a way to stop oponent's combo. It can be placed in 3th turn without problems. And I have some ways to stop Dragon, Trix or Cobold Clamp. There is alway possible sideboarding against TPS.
-Servitors are not powerful on their own, but are well-working with a half of my deck. They are only something to help, like Squee in Dragon.
-I prefer to use only control elements that could be effective part of whole deck as long, as it's possible. Only Naturalize does/nt work with other stuff, but i decided to include it as an answer for many possible and ordinary treats. Force of Will should be in, but unfortunatelly it won't work.

Well, but You are still right.

This decklist is only a show of whole idea - I want to make it much more better.
There appeared a good idea of playing Trinket Mages instead of Artificer's Intu and adding Xantid Swarm. I also noticed there could be Helm of Awakening as acceleration.
I will test it.
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