[Issue] Should Legacy be the default format for Casual?

[dandan]

I think it is fair to say that most of us use the deck constructed rules for Vintage as a default when we make casual decks. If I play someone in a casual game, I wouldn't object too loudly to a Black Lotus but most of us would say something if an opponent played 2 against us (other than Wow!).

However, I don't think decks that sport 5MLSol are really casual decks.

The new Legacy format looks like it is a far more suitable starting point for 'standard' casual decks. Of course, rules are there to be broken and I hope most of us would allow decks that step outside the bounds of normality (an old-fashioned Plague Rats deck before Wizards decided to reprint them).

Should Legacy be the ''standard' that casual decks are (usually) built to?

(Note that for me, the issue of Moxen, Ancestral in casual decks didn't arise as I don't use them but I did have to go round taking out Sol Ring, which was in every casual deck)

[Ephraim]

In my opinion, neither Vintage nor Legacy is optimal for casual play. In my experience, players are much more shocked by the sight of a dual land -- legal in both Vintage and Legacy, than they are by the sight of Demonic Tutor, Sol Ring, Skullclamp, or Mind's Desire -- all banned in Legacy.

As you have said, the rules are made to be broken -- and I think that the value of casual play is that the rules aren't that strict to begin with. I don't think it's really necessary to define a specific, limiting card set. In practive, I've found that my card usage moderates itself. If I find that Burning Wish has become too abusive in one of my casual decks, I'll take it out. Likewise with other restricted goodies like Yawgmoth's Will (less so for Mind's Desire, which like as not will be the centerpiece of the deck.) The key, I think, is not to preemptively declare one format or another more suitable for casual deck building, but rather for players to be aware of the power level of their casual metagame. For many casual players, access is the primary limiting factor -- and unlike competitive Magic, casual Magic is better with an even playing field. If nobody around me has any of the cards that make Vintage broken, it would hardly be any fun for me to play with many of them (although, as I've noted, I splash them from time to time.)

That said, typically, if I am going to include something that is restricted in Vintage, I have the good manners to include only a single copy (unless it's a Peasant Magic deck -- 4DemonicTutor4L.) Of course, there are also stupid exceptions, like Crop Rotation or even borderline cards like Lotus Petal and Frantic Search. They're powerful, certainly, but really not broken without other Vintage goodies.

[Toad]

When I play Casual games other than the ones using my Wagic box with my friends, we tend to use the old T1.5 B&R list, that is all the cards that are restricted in T1 are banned, with some modifications (that is Crop Rotation or Frantic Search are allowed as long as they are not used for brokeness, for example). We also have a lot of implicit rules, such as no counterspell abuse, no Prison decks (Stasis, Winter Orb, Trinisphere...), no heavy land destruction, etc ... That does not mean we are always playing full creatures decks with no tricks and such. I have two cool casual decks, one being a "bounce" deck based around 187 creatures, Survival of the Fittest and Crystal Shard and the other being a Mirari's Wake control deck (with Wrath of God and such, almost only INV-ODY-ONS).

Our Wagic box has all the restricted brokeness though, but is used for different purpose (casual draft).