DOA, aka BHWC Oath (Winner of SCG3 $500 event); Mini-Primer

[JACO]

Duress Owns All, aka BHWC Oath; the Introduction & Mini-Primer

Introduction
As many of you may have seen by my fellow BHWC teammate Nick Trudeau's report here, a BlackBlueGreen Oath deck took home the money in the cash tournament at StarCityGames Chicago. Nick Trudeau piloted our deck to an undefeated 6-0 in the tournament.

After MeanDeck pretty much blew everyone out of the water at SCG2 (Richmond) last month, it was obvious to me that their breakout deck would be both heavily played, and heavily metagamed against in the coming months. BlueGreen Oath can be built with relatively few proxies, and the combo nature of the deck makes it relatively easy for a newcomer to pick up the deck and immediately be able to do well with it. A quick win condition, on par with combo, backed up by an asston of counters, made Oath an easy choice for those whose couldn't figure out how to beat it. I had a feeling that it would be the most played deck at SCG3 (Chicago), so I continued to develop the Oath deck I was working on to be prepared to beat MeanDeck's Oath. To do this, you need to have either good solutions to their threats or strategy, be more proactive than them, or both. With that in mind, Bitches&HoesWesCoast brings you:

DOA
Engine (8)
4 Oath of Druids
2 Gaea's Blessing
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Spirit of the Night

Counters & Disruption (16)
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
2 Daze
4 Duress
4 Mana Drain

Other Business (12)
4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
3 Skeletal Scrying
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Cunning Wish

Mana Sources (24)
4 Forbidden Orchard
3 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
1 Library of Alexandria

The Creature Base
The obvious similarity to the MeanDeck Oath list here is the creature base. I tested out numerous creature configurations over the past month and a half, and while I hate Spirit of the Night, nothing is better than Akroma, Her Fatty Beatstickness. Because we only played the on-color Moxes, we rarely ran into the problem of having Darksteel Colossus Welded out for a random artifact while playestesting. I enjoy smashing someone's face in with an 11/11 Type 2 card just as much as the next man, but the haste and 'vigilance' abilities of Akroma proved to outweigh the benefits of pretty much any other creature choice. Hasted flyers with trample that can end the game in 2-3 turns are appropriate for the combo style nature of the deck. While this was one of the most debated components of the deck, it is clearly apparent to me through my testing that Akroma + SOTN are superior to pretty much anything else I've seen so far (this does not apply to the storm combo versions playing Eternal Witness, as I feel that is an entirely different deck).

The Counter Base
Everybody knows Force of Will and Mana Drain are the best counters in the game, so they should be auto-includes in any Oath deck if you can afford it. If your mana-base allows it, Duress is the third best counter in the game. When designing the deck, I wanted a more proactive approach to getting Oath on the board, because while the deck certainly has punch in the mid to late game, Hidden Orchard enables us to play the combo role very early. While Mana Leak is certainly a great card in decks running a full complement of Moxes, it forces you to wait. I'd rather win now than dick around for a number of turns, allowing my opponent to see more cards (and possible solutions) in their deck, such as Seal of Cleansing or Aether Spellbomb. Duress helps clear counters and hate out of the way very early. Daze is the most controversial choice among the counters here, but it was chosen to also help back the deck's most key strategy: to win the early game. Playing a first turn land + Mox for Oath of Druids, with the ability to simply Daze your opponent's Force of Will or Brainstorm is very, very strong.

The Mana Base
As demonstrated by Smmenen & Jacob Orlove's writings about SCG2 (and any playtesting you may have done), the key to the Oath mirror is Hidden Orchard dominance. 5 Strip effects help come closer to achieving that goal. I'd much rather draw a Wasteland than a random Mox Pearl in nearly every match with this deck.

One thing that you'll immediately notice is the drop in the number of fetchlands played in this deck. While Brainstorm + fetchland is good in nearly any deck, it isn't often as necessary in this deck. If you are saving your Brainstorms for when you need them (i.e. to dig through your deck, or to put a creature and/or Blessing back on top of the library before Oathing), then this is not as big of a deal. The fact that this deck runs 6 non-colored mana sources (Library + 5 Strips) means that there are only 18 possible colored mana sources, including the fetchlands. While this might not seem too interesting, having permanent colored mana sources is often very relevant, and by playing less fetchlands, you are concordantly increasing permanent mana producers. For this reason, 3-4 fetchlands is the right number in this deck, and you will only be fetching the duals at the most opportune and needy times. Having 4 main deck basic lands helps the deck be much more resilient to Back to Basics, Wasteland, etc. The basic Swamp in here is straight dope; trust me on this.

The Draw Engine
Aside from the creature base, I'm not sure anything has been debated about Oath variants nearly as much as the draw engine. While Intution is certainly a nice tutor, and is great at fetching AK's and/or Deep Analysis, having to dedicate 6-8 cards for this sucks the big wang. Playing against opposing AK's in the mirror all day is no fun, as you generally will be holding 1-2 dead cards early in the game (unless you foolishly cast AK for 1 or 2, or are forced to). Skeletal Scrying is awesome, and the 3 in the deck routinely draws me 6-10 cards per game. This is at least as good as Accumulated Knowledge, and at the cost of far less slots in your deck. Nick substituted Fact or Fiction for the 3rd Scrying in Chicago, and it is equally as juicy, especially due to its synergy with Gaea's Blessing.

Cunning Wish
Yes, Cunning Motherfucking Wish. I feel this is one of the most underrated cards in Type 1. It's like an end of turn Demonic Tutor, Impulse, and more, all rolled into one gross little instant. With more and more hate catching up to Oath, Cunning Wish can provide so many answers. I'm not worried about bastardizing part of my sideboard; I'm just worried about winning. Cunning Wish allows you to pull off random acts of badassness, and deal with whatever horseshit 'tech' your opponent manages to pull out.

The Sideboard
No sideboard was included in the deck above, but for SCG3 Chicago our sideboard was based on the following pool of cards:
1 Pristine Angel
1 Platinum Angel
4 Chalice of the Void
***Cunning Wishable***
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Rack and Ruin
1 Artifact Mutation
1 Coffin Purge
1 Stifle
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Crop Rotation
1 Echoing Truth
1 Fact or Fiction/Gush/Skeletal Scrying
1 Oxidize/Naturalize
1 Snuff Out
1 Fire/Ice

Combo is a hard match for many control decks, and the Chalices were a necessary evil (yes, even with all the counters). The Cunning Wish targets differ by what we expect on a given day. Most of them are obvious, but Crop Rotation was in my board to also help establish Hidden Orchard dominance in the mirror (even if ever-so-slightly). Duplicant and Gilded Drake were also tossed about, but in the end, they just didn't impact games like I wanted them to. I really liked having 3 Rack and Ruins (2 to side in, and 1 to still Cunning Wish for), as Workshop decks aren't an easy match for anyone (especially now that they are running shit like Seal of Cleansing main deck).

Playing DOA
As mentioned above, DOA's objective is to control the early game, and lay the groundwork for a quick and victorious game. If the strategy isn't obvious enough, you want to do everything in your power to get out an active Oath, and your counters and disruption are meant to be aimed at that goal, straying from this only when something your opponent does will significantly swing the game. Brainstorm is obviously great at digging in your deck, but is more important for putting back creatures and Blessings on top of your library. More than anything else, this deck fits into the combo-control mold, so realize that when playing.

Q & A
As the designer of the deck, I'll quickly address a few points and questions that have already been brought up in Nick's thread, and to me via PM.
Q. Are you really satisfied with Library of Alexandria in the deck?
A. While I usually want to win right away, Library of Alexandria is an underrated and dynamic card. Playing Scrying frequenly helps to refuel your hand and get back into Library range. It singlehandedly won me game 2, round 2, vs. current Vintage World Champion Mark Biller at SCG3 this past weekend.

Q. Why aren't you running Vampiric Tutor?
A. Vampiric isn't in the main deck, as the format is very control heavy right now, and card disadvantage sucks in the mirror. It is a great addition to the sideboard as a Cunning Wish target, and is in our pool of cards to choose from when we build the sideboard each time.

Q. Why 2 Gaea's Blessings?
A. Because one just isn't safe enough. As Nick alluded to in his thread, there were games in our playtesting and the tournament where 95% of the deck would be milled away before the first creature was revealed, without hitting Blessing. Running 2 Blessings also helps you in the mirror, and also helps you recycle broken stuff like Ancestral, Time Walk, and Demonic Tutor.

Q. Why no Yawgmoth's Will? After all, it is 'the most gamebreaking spell in Magic'...
A. Because there's absolutely no synergy with it and the deck. If you aren't shuffling the loots back into your library when Blessing triggers, then you're removing it with Skeletal Scrying. I tested Will out for about a week of playtesting, and it wasn't used at all. While it is certainly broken in just about any deck, this is part of the .01% of cases where it is not.

As a footnote, Nick & I combined to go 7-0 against Oath at SCG3, and this validated our testing against MeanDeck Oath.

[monSt4r]

I love your "hidden" orchards...btw. what happens if someone puts for example claws of gix..ok wish roxx  

[Covetous]

I have a build which is vaguely similar to this deck (i.e. UGB w/ duress), but I run 4x intuition plus AKs, along with 2 pernicious deed instead of the wishes (and a slightly different manabase).  Duress certainly is the bomb in this deck--it owns the mirror and many other decks (i.e. anything control plus anything you go first against).  I really like intuition, however--finding that forbidden orchard or oath when you need it is so key.  I have honestly never liked the lack of synergy between AK and gaea's blessing--AK is only good with oath when you have already oathed (==won).  I tested scrying and found it very cool because you can choose to remove complete crap from your graveyard when you shuffle it back into your deck with blessing.  It makes blessing that much stronger.  It also has good synergy with Wish, but nonetheless I find that Deed is a powerhouse.  Have you tested Deed and found Wish superior?  In your testing, how has daze been for you?  I generally associate it with pure tempo decks like fish, not more controlling decks like Oath.  It seems to slow down your (already slow) scryings and wishes.  

Congrats on the nice finish--this deck certainly seems strong.

[JACO]

I have honestly never liked the lack of synergy between AK and gaea's blessing--AK is only good with oath when you have already oathed (==won).

Well you'll certainly be Intuitioning for AK some of the time if you play those cards, but you're right, AK often has little synergy with Blessing, and is frequently shuffled back into the deck. Scrying has just been great all the time, typically drawing 2 to 5 cards each time. The loss of life is negligible.

I find that Deed is a powerhouse.  Have you tested Deed and found Wish superior?

Deed was in my first build of BUG Oath that I tested, but it is extremely slow. This is a deck where I want to win now, rather than dicking around, so it has been streamlined, and random stuff has been cut out. If there is an emergency where I need to remove something, Cunning Wish is an EOT instant that pretty much handles anything.

In your testing, how has daze been for you?  I generally associate it with pure tempo decks like fish, not more controlling decks like Oath.  It seems to slow down your (already slow) scryings and wishes.

It is a tempo card, and is usually quite strong and unexpected in the early to mid game. I want the tempo early in the game, without necessarily blowing all of the spells out of my hand.

[DavidHernandez]

JACO,

Well written! Great insight too. Congrats to Nick on the win. Can't wait to see you guys at Mr. Fantazy, where you will go 0-2-4 while I finish 7th again.

Dave.

[Malhavoc]

Congratulations for the good results! I've been playing a similar deck in these days, and after I've read yours I've tried adding the 5 strip-effects. I wasn't too sure, I feared I was heading towards color screw, but I must admit I wasn't! Surprisingly, it works great!

Anyway, I have a couple of doubts: first of all, the skeletal scrying. I'm comparing them with deep analysis. Most of the time, with the same amount of mana, you will draw more or less the same amount of cards. Skeletal will get you maybe one more (apart from huge scryings), but for more life loss. Skeletal is also instant, which is a HUGE advantage. However deep analysis is blue, which means it can be pitched with FoW or Misdi, and its flashback ability is awesome after oathing, particular if you run only one blessing (I still can't understand the need for 2 of them, sorry).

Another note: even if we all know that Mana Drain is a damn good card, in this deck I've lost count of all the times I've been mana burned by it. Won't it be better to run mana leak? With a couple of mox on board it will make us able to cast a protected oath on turn two. Ah, and regarding the moxes: I know making space for wastelands could mean being forced to remove off-color moxes, however this also means we have less chances of playing a first turn oath, which is why you are running two daze. Is it worth it (having only 3 moxes I mean)?

[JACO]

Anyway, I have a couple of doubts: first of all, the skeletal scrying. I'm comparing them with deep analysis. Most of the time, with the same amount of mana, you will draw more or less the same amount of cards. Skeletal will get you maybe one more (apart from huge scryings), but for more life loss. Skeletal is also instant, which is a HUGE advantage. However deep analysis is blue, which means it can be pitched with FoW or Misdi, and its flashback ability is awesome after oathing, particular if you run only one blessing (I still can't understand the need for 2 of them, sorry).

Another note: even if we all know that Mana Drain is a damn good card, in this deck I've lost count of all the times I've been mana burned by it. Won't it be better to run mana leak? With a couple of mox on board it will make us able to cast a protected oath on turn two. Ah, and regarding the moxes: I know making space for wastelands could mean being forced to remove off-color moxes, however this also means we have less chances of playing a first turn oath, which is why you are running two daze. Is it worth it (having only 3 moxes I mean)?

I tested Deep Analysis, and after a while just came to the conclusion that Skeletal Scrying is just flat out better and more explosive. It can't be Red Elemental Blasted, can't be Misdirected, and is usually an end-of-turn effect on my opponent's turn, or a huge Mana Drain sink. I have 20 blue spells in the deck, so the 'pitchability' to Force of Will is not really an issue.

Mana Leak is not the bomb. It is good, but there are enough mana sinks in here for me to play Drain and not look back.

Also, like I said above, I would almost always draw a Wasteland instead of a Mox Pearl/Ruby vs. pretty much any deck. Wasteland does't cost anything to cast under an opponent's Trinisphere, and takes out Bazaar's, Workshops, Forbidden Orchards, and good old dual lands. I'm typically casting Duress on the first turn anyway, not Oath of Druids or holding back for Mana Leak. I rarely burn from Mana Drain in this deck, and if I do, I don't really mind, because I'm usually winning after I counter my opponent's threats and swinging with Akroma or bIg plAtz.

Well written! Great insight too. Congrats to Nick on the win. Can't wait to see you guys at Mr. Fantazy, where you will go 0-2-4 while I finish 7th again.

Thanks for taking the time to read and comprehend everything above Dave; it doesn't seem like many other people have read what's been written so far. I'll see you in the OC.

[Angel]

After some serious playing with the deck, I've made a couple of changes to it, the most significant being cutting the Daze and replacing them with Aether Spellbomb  :shock:  It's been treating me great. Dragon has to play around it, it makes Tog irritated, it's great in the Oath Mirror, and generally saves my ass in random matches. Worst case, it cycles, which is never bad. I also threw a single Intuition in, and it is an amazing complement to DT. It can grab Oath, Orchard, Waste, and a bunch of other stuff.

Your call on cutting Iridescent from the SB was definately correct; I haven't found a need for two non-Swords-able creatures, though I must say Pristine is the bomb.

That's all for now

John

[JACO]

After some serious playing with the deck, I've made a couple of changes to it, the most significant being cutting the Daze and replacing them with Aether Spellbomb. It's been treating me great. Dragon has to play around it, it makes Tog irritated, it's great in the Oath Mirror, and generally saves my ass in random matches. Worst case, it cycles, which is never bad. I also threw a single Intuition in, and it is an amazing complement to DT. It can grab Oath, Orchard, Waste, and a bunch of other stuff.

Your call on cutting Iridescent from the SB was definately correct; I haven't found a need for two non-Swords-able creatures, though I must say Pristine is the bomb.

Pristine Angel is definitely superior to Iridescent; no question.

AEther Spellbomb has been something I've tested in damn near every deck, and it's really not that great. It just stalls. Daze helps you win by establishing counter superiority in the very early game. They are often sided out, but they force your opponent to consider slowing down their game plan, which in turns helps you. But good luck playing the deck. It's imperative to play with the deck for an extended period of time to learn how to correctly mulligan with the deck when you face certain matchups.

[Angel]

I definately agree that mulliganing correctly is a huge part of this deck. The difference between my scrubbing @ Kzoo and my much better play two days later was definately due to a LOT more practice with the deck. I do have a question, though. EITD and I were talking about sideboarding for Dragon... Any suggestions? I have been in the past taking out the two MB creatures for the single Plat Angel in the side. It works, but it is slow as hell. Is there something better that I'm just overlooking??

John

[JACO]

I definately agree that mulliganing correctly is a huge part of this deck. The difference between my scrubbing @ Kzoo and my much better play two days later was definately due to a LOT more practice with the deck. I do have a question, though. EITD and I were talking about sideboarding for Dragon... Any suggestions? I have been in the past taking out the two MB creatures for the single Plat Angel in the side. It works, but it is slow as hell. Is there something better that I'm just overlooking??

John

John, I played against Dragon at SCG3 Chicago, and beat it pretty handily in both games (2-0). I sided like this:
In: +1 Ray of Revelation, +1 Coffin Purge, +1 Stifle, +1 Platinum Angel
Out: -1 Akroma, -1 Spirit of the Night, -2 Misdirection

Keep in mind that you can always target your opponent with Gaea's Blessing, and shuffle their Dragons and/or Squees back into their deck. I sideboarded in Ray of Revelation, Coffin Purge, and Stifle as a means of additional hate, and left the Cunning Wishes to target either Blue Elemental Blast, Snuff Out, or Echoing Truth (depending on what you're playing in your board). BIG PLATZ is a bit slower, but does the job just fine, and is all you really need. If you don't think it's fast enough, then keep the Akroma sided in and just side something else out, or don't side Stifle in.

[Angel]

That plan sounds pretty good. After some more Dragon play, Platinum is indeed what works. I hadn't thought of Ray in my own sideboard, even after a lengthy discussion with EITD about it and throwing several into the SB of my friend's Dragon deck.   Oh well, in one goes.

My only remaining issue with this deck is concerning its future. How long do you think the deck will remain viable? I know currently its definately teir 1, but with the recent exposure this deck has gotten, could the hate pile up and cause it to be unplayable? I'd like to get your thoughts on this.

John

[JACO]

My only remaining issue with this deck is concerning its future. How long do you think the deck will remain viable? I know currently its definately teir 1, but with the recent exposure this deck has gotten, could the hate pile up and cause it to be unplayable? I'd like to get your thoughts on this.

The deck will remain viable as long as you adjust it to the expected hate in a given week. If you expect people to be playing Workshops galore, and hate such as Spawning Pit, add lots of artifact hate to the sideboard. AEther Spellbomb is kind of irrelevant, especially if you are sideboarding correctly, but most of the other hate can be dealth with/played through. The only card that's really been problematic for me in any match is an early Smokestack (I typically mulligan into an opportunity to Force or Drain the opponent's early Trinisphere). This is where things like multiple Rack & Ruin or Artifact Mutation make a difference.

I wouldn't play the deck every week down the road (once the hate starts to catch up), but it's definitely one of the top 3 or 4 decks I would consider playing in every tournament. I've built, tweaked, and playtested almost every serious deck out there, and this just seems to be the best to me right now. Adjust your deck or cards in a deck to what you expect to face, and you'll be successful no matter what the metagame is (provided you accurately predict and prepare).

[Angel]

Agreed, Aether Spellbomb doesn't work well vs. Pristine Angel. Spawning Pit seems a little tougher to work around, luckily, I haven't seen Workshops around lately.

Also, I've had a couple matches (one DeathLong and one Aluren  :shock: )
that were absolutely retarded because both of us were playing Orchards. JDizzle can back me on this; those matches are just nutty.

I've been thinking about Intuition a lot lately. I've got a single copy in my build atm... Do you think that multiple Intuitions have any merit? I find them great for grabbing Oath or Orchard, or an Instant speed FoW tutor.

Do you find Chalice enough to stop combo? I've been bringing in Platinum, too, but it doesn't seem like enough. Any thoughts?

John

[xrizzo]

Do you find Chalice enough to stop combo? I've been bringing in Platinum, too, but it doesn't seem like enough. Any thoughts?

I have been running 2 arcane labs in the board.  If combo is prevelant, I might even up this to three.  If this card hits, all storm based tendrils decks are hosed if you can protect the lab.  

Another reason not to rely on chalice and platinum angel is that a lot of combo decks run aritifact bounce, and both cards will be affected by a single solution.  An artifact (plat) and an enchantment (lab) is a much more complete solution.  

The real key against combo however is to play control against them until you can play your oath with 2x counter backup during their next turn.  TPS and deathlong will win if you waste your 1st/2nd turn tapping out to play oath.

[JACO]

Also, I've had a couple matches (one DeathLong and one Aluren) that were absolutely retarded because both of us were playing Orchards. JDizzle can back me on this; those matches are just nutty.

I've seen a few combo decks play Forbidden Orchards, but it's not really an issue. As Tim (xrizzo) alluded to below, you are playing the control role in that match. You don't care about their Orchards too much, because you are busy trying to make sure they don't resolve a game breaking threat, and you have your own Wastelands to help you establish Orchard dominance (which they do not).

I've been thinking about Intuition a lot lately. I've got a single copy in my build atm... Do you think that multiple Intuitions have any merit? I find them great for grabbing Oath or Orchard, or an Instant speed FoW tutor.

This question has merit, but without Accumulated Knowledge and/or Deep Analysis, the card is mediocre at best. Intuition + AK just isn't worth 7-8 slots in this deck, especially when 3 Scryings will draw you the same amount of cards.

Do you find Chalice enough to stop combo? I've been bringing in Platinum, too, but it doesn't seem like enough. Any thoughts?

I have been running 2 arcane labs in the board. If combo is prevelant, I might even up this to three. If this card hits, all storm based tendrils decks are hosed if you can protect the lab.

Xrizzo is playing Arcane Laboratory, and I have switched to that as well. If combo is expected, 3 Arcane Labs seem a slightly better because they are harder to remove (esentially ignoring Rebuild and Hurkyl's Recall).

[effang]

you keep on mentioning the premier decks in t1.

which do you feel are in contention?

oath
stax
CS slaver?

i've sleeved up my slaver, and i must say, i don't like it much at all...
if you feel this is a stronger choice, mayhaps i'll be switching colors soon  
NOT ONLY is this completely off-topic, but it's also tier discussion, which had been banned on TMD since forever. Warning.
-Jacob

[Sublime]

A question about sceletal scrying.  Becuase you use gaea's blessing to continue to grab your good cards back wouldent it be tough to have to remove those cards from your graveyard?

[JACO]

A question about sceletal scrying.  Becuase you use gaea's blessing to continue to grab your good cards back wouldent it be tough to have to remove those cards from your graveyard?

Typically you aren't Scrying away awesome cards. You are usually Scrying for 2-5 cards, and are most often removing stuff like fetchlands and whatever else is the least powerful or necessary in the graveyard. Most of the time you don't want to be hard casting Blessing anyway.

[HuntedWumpus]

@InaneExpert: Just a note on something JACO failed to mention. Scrying's removal actually has some decent synergy with cards like cunning wish. An example would be to remove Ancestral Recall with scrying so that it becomes a excellent wish target if you are not picking an answer from your board.

[xrizzo]

@InaneExpert: Just a note on something JACO failed to mention. Scrying's removal actually has some decent synergy with cards like cunning wish. An example would be to remove Ancestral Recall with scrying so that it becomes a excellent wish target if you are not picking an answer from your board.

Just to add to this a bit, if you are holding a scrying in your hand when you oath and hit a blessing trigger, you can cast the scrying to remove all the cards in your yard you don't want to be shuffled back in (lands, daze, extra oaths, etc depending on the build).  This will improve your future draws.

I have not found scrying to be anything other than the most compact, versatile, and powerful 3 card draw engine in vintage today.

Edit: Spelling.

[Sublime]

Also I see that many of your sideboard cards require red mana but the only red available would be from forbinin orchard, are you banking on always having enough mana from the orchard?

[erictehfatz0r]

I don't think that's a problem since Forbidden Orchard is needed to win. Stretching out the SB seems like a tough call, but when you absolutely need orchard to go off, you'll be able to use it on anything.

[HuntedWumpus]

I've been playing and working to evolve BUG before and since JACO, and NickVos released the deck. Using a 4-5 color board is one of the most potent features of DOA employs. Im my experence testing and piloting this deck in tournament the lack of red (and white mana in my boards' case) has not been an serious issue providing that you play with the understanding that Forbidden Orchard will be the target of wastelands, and hence needs to be played with caution.

To sum this discussion up . . .
Being able to pull Rack and Ruin, REB, Stp, ext. out of the board >> than possibly not being able to cast them.

[Bob The Builder]

I wonder;

Did anyone try to put Isochron Scepter into this deck?  Does it work?     I see enough targets (counters or draw/tutor/brainstorm) to put it to good use.  And it's not like you need loads of mana when oath is on the table so you should be able to keep UU open for regular counter and of color mana for the scepter...  (i would transfer the daze into counterspell/mana leak)

[ChaosTheory]

Good job with the deck. Adding black was pure genius at work  

The only thing I want to know is, do you ever have mana consistency issues?
I have had problems with mana consistency alot. I find It hard to find the colour I need at times.
I just built the deck yesterday, card for card with your list so maybe i'm just unlucky, or I suck at shuffling and get mana clumps  

[Jacob Orlove]

This thread was months old before it got bumped. Closed so that people can discuss current builds.