Preconstructed (theme) Decks and other questions.

[Genju of the Wicked]

For those of you that haven't already had a laugh at my first deck attempt in my first post, I am completely new to the game, but would like to start getting ready for vintage tourney play (I know it will take a while).

I am planning on buying mostly singles, but was wondering if any of the preconstructed decks (theme decks) are ever worth purchasing -- not to actually use as they come, but instead b/c they contain a good amount of decent cards that I can therefore get all at once (I know the definition of decent cards rests largely on the deck type you are playing, but I am more questioning about generally all-around good cards such as the "power 9", although I don't expect to be able to find a deck containing those so easily).  

Also, I plan on buying at least one box of cards to get started on trading.    I believe I can get any booster box from any set from the Urza block and up from my local card shop for about the same price.  Any recommendations on which would be the best to buy in terms of tradability and playability?

[Detroit]

If you can get any booster box from Urza's block and up for the same price I would get a box of Urza's Saga as that set contains some of the best Vintage cards (Yawgmoth's Will, Tolarian Academy, Duress) as well as a number of other good cards for trading purposes. Also, Mirrodin is a good set in terms of type 1 playable cards and good trade stock.

As for the preconstructed decks, I don't know the lists for all of them, but in general I don't think that you would be better off buying one of those over some packs.

[Freelancer]

Its probably even worse...Preconstructed decks are generally only well equipped for casual play and consist many (un)commons (cheap) cards that are not to great in vintage...Your probably best off with being singles (as you suggested yourself) do not buy packs they suck big time (you always get the wrong stuff, bleh)...(personal opinion about packs though, although I think plenty off people will agree with me here)

If you want to buy a box, you should probably go for urza's saga...Plenty off T1 staples in there...

[Marton]

I will have to agree with the previous poster. I used to buy tons of boosters back when i started but it's just so damn rare that you get back on your money that it's really not worth it. You really should buy singles pretty much all the time. If you want to get good stuff in order to trade easier, then you should search for singles on ebay, those that sell for cheap but that you know you can trade high. Theres also some cards that are unexplicably low priced even though their effect are amongst the most broken ones. For example, have a look at tinker and memory jar. Theyre like 3$ each, and theyre definately going to win you games. Goblin welder has strangely never been very expansive either. Im sure you can find more, but just remember that buying boxes is pretty much the same as throwing money away in order to get cards you don't really want.

[Matt]

One of the Darksteel precons (Transference) has two Skullclamps in it. For the time that wasn't banned everywhere, that was a good one to buy.

[Rancor1]

I'd also try to go to local tournaments like FNM. If you can make friends on a higher level of play, it'll be much easier for you, not only because of what you can learn from them, but because they'll almost definately lend you cards. Winning packs on a weekly basis can be HUGE.

If you're having trouble getting into the ring of good players at the local shops, here's some tips: always take their advice, and lend them everything they need. Nothing pisses me off more than little kids avidly defending a bad argument, like playing 4 uphevals in an extended tog deck.

[ProZachar]

I'd also try to go to local tournaments like FNM. If you can make friends on a higher level of play, it'll be much easier for you, not only because of what you can learn from them, but because they'll almost definately lend you cards. Winning packs on a weekly basis can be HUGE.

That may be true for Type 2/Extended, but I would have a really hard time lending power/Drains to someone I only saw at FNM's or equivilent.

[SpencerForHire]

One of the prophecy precons or something contains Avatar of Woe.  I don' t know about how recently but they were booking at 20$ a piece at one point.

[Rancor1]

That may be true for Type 2/Extended, but I would have a really hard time lending power/Drains to someone I only saw at FNM's or equivilent.

The upper crowd at these events usually play all of these formats, and uses their store as a testing ground. However, the point I was trying to make was if you get good players to lend you cards for FNM, it's easy to win 3 to 8 packs per week for like a $5 entry fee.

[Zombie Shakespeare]

You can find all the PreCons lists here by clicking on the particular set(s) you are interested in. Overall I do not think that most of the PreCons are worth investing in nor boosters for that matter. Your money will be better spent picking up the singles you want instead of playing the "booster pack lottery" of sorts and potentially getting squat.

If you are looking for [card]Eternal Witness[/card] I'd consider getting the PreCon Stampede from Fifth Dawn. Eternal Witnesses are going for upwards of $8 so you are getting 59 extra cards for $3.

[Avangel]

Don't buy packs.  Do buy boxes.   I buy a box here and there.  You usually get 4 of every common, 2-4 of every uncommon, and 1 of most of the rares depending how big the set is.   I keep all the rares I want to play with and toss all the others into my tradebinder to get other playable rares.  Your trash is someone elses treasure.  

As for buying singles.  Start with one competitve deck you think you'd like to play and stick with it!  Buy and trade for singles that improve that deck.  Get to know it inside out.  

Take a look at the restricted list.  those cards are restricted for a reason.

Type one isn't easy.  You will lose before you get to play.  Be prepared for this.   If you get frustrated by that fact find another format.

Which brings me to my next point.  Buy the cards that stop you from losing turn 1.  Force of Will is a must have.  duress. etc etc.

Have fun!

[Jacob Orlove]

Buying boxes is great if you want to draft a lot. If you're buying boxes for cards, then you're wasting money.

[Rancor1]

I have to go with Orlove on this one. For similar amounts of money, you can get 4 FoW, and for a little bit more, 4 duals, etc. My friend opened a box of eigth, and got a BoP, a Wrath, and 2 Coat of Armss. This was a very good box, but it still came to, at the time, little more than 20 dollars of cards.

[Genju of the Wicked]

Thanks for all of your input.

So it appears that the general consensus is to stay away from precons and boxes, and just buy singles.

I'm also assuming, therefore, that buying a box wouldn't even help much on starting trading as very little of its contents are likely to be good.  The reason I ask is that smart trading is always more fun and economical then buying singles, but since I have no cards to speak of, I really can't trade.  And buying the singles I need for my decks will do little to help this situation.

[Machinus]

I believe I can get any booster box from any set from the Urza block and up from my local card shop for about the same price.  Any recommendations on which would be the best to buy in terms of tradability and playability?

I am just curious...how much for a saga box? I might want to buy one if they are at a good price.

[Cross]

I would be careful about running out and buying everything on Ebay. Ebay is a great source if you know what you're looking for and how valuable it is, but some cards are way overpriced on ebay. For more expensive cards I would try to trade into what you need.

At some point however you do need to just drop some cash and get all the duals you need, the force of wills, tolarian academy, mana crypt etc.. It's the midprice rares that really hurt the wallet because they are difficult to trade up to, and usually you're already proxying power so you don't have proxy space for these.  I would monitor ebay and be as sniveling as possible about paying for cards, because eventually you'll get it at the price you want. Stick to it, watch as many auctions as possible.

Also consider what you're your trying to build beforehand. A deck like divining top combo would probably be easy to buy, TPS isn't too hard either (although good luck getting reasonable underground seas).

[Genju of the Wicked]

I believe I can get any booster box from any set from the Urza block and up from my local card shop for about the same price.  Any recommendations on which would be the best to buy in terms of tradability and playability?

I am just curious...how much for a saga box? I might want to buy one if they are at a good price.

You'll have to give me a day or so to check for ya.

As I alluded to in my first post, I'm not 100% sure that this is the case.   However, when I there was looking around, I noticed that the owner sold all packs from the Urza block and up for $4 a piece (Cdn).  This, taken with the fact that he is a close friend of mine, made me think that I could get almost any box from Urza and up for about the same price.

[OptimusDeutz]

If you are interested in playing Food Chain Goblins, then you will definitely be served well by buying the Onslaught Goblin Themed Precon.

It doesn't have everything for the deck, but it will certainly get you started.

[Rancor1]

Don't buy that precon. The one from scourge has 2 warchiefs and a siege-gang, but it's not worth the ten dollars.

The only boxes of Saga I've ever seen were in the 300 neighborhood.  Even if you can get them for 4 a pack, is it really worth it?

A good box would include:
1 Tolarian- 20
1 Cradle- 15
1 Yawgs Will- 10
1 Windfall- 1.4
4 Duress- 4
1 Time Spiral- 1

Plus a few more i'm sure to be forgetting. Altogeather, it just about cracks the 70 dollar mark. Not too good for 150 dollars of packs

[Matt]

Morphling, Serra Avatar are both high-dollar rares. Sneak Attack too, for some reason.

[Rancor1]

Counting those, it comes a bit closer to 150, but still, no one is opening a box with all the cards listed. Plus you need 4 avatars and 4 sneak attacks to play sneak attack.dec

[Matt]

Priest of Titania is a high common, Goblin Cadets are maybe 50 cents, Goblin Lackey is still $4 around these parts. Gilded Drake is good. Out of $4/pack you can probably recoup $2/pack and so if you draft or play sealed or something fun with them it could concievably be worth your while.

[Rancor1]

So let's settle the whole issue with this: if its the cards you're after, go for singals. If you draft, spring for the box.

[xthexpunisherx]

So let's settle the whole issue with this: if its the cards you're after, go for singals. If you draft, spring for the box.

You are absolutly correct.

[Jacob Orlove]

Buying boxes is great if you want to draft a lot. If you're buying boxes for cards, then you're wasting money.

[kl0wn]

Don't buy that precon. The one from scourge has 2 warchiefs and a siege-gang, but it's not worth the ten dollars.

Except for the possibility of getting one of those misprinted joblin precons. I heard them things fetch a few grand. A few grand > ten bux.

[Rancor1]

You mean the Harry Potter backs? I thought that was an isolated incident.

[CCClark]

I recommend new players purposefully going after these cards first.  You don't have to have them, but if you see one for trade it's worth trying to get for future use.  

Underground sea
Tundra
Volcanic Island
Flooded Strand
Polluted Delta
Brainstorms
Force of Wills
Duress


Practically every higher type 1 deck uses some of these in some form or another.

They are a good base for just about any deck.   They may be a lil expensive anymore, but well worth their weight and they will do nothing but go up in price.  Even the cards that are similar to what they do are worth getting if cash is a problem.  (ie. Underground River)
You don't have to have 4 of each but it's nice to have around 2 of each if possible.  

There is the Goblin route also.  It's cheap to build and pretty effective against most decks.  Most of the goblin decks use commons.  

If you can get Urza's Saga boxes for the same price as any other I would jump all over that chance.  Most of the rares from that set are quite hard to find for less than $5 apeice.  Even if you don't use a single card from it yourself it's well worth it for the sheer trade value alone.