[Article] Training Wheels...

[Toad]

I used the list in Toad's article, actually.

You should not use extremely outdated lists to back up your arguments since that's pretty counterproductive. The decklist used in the article is the one I was using in mid November, that is more than 3 monthes ago. My current build is 5 cards different from this one, run Yawgmoth's Will and a different artifact base.

First, the Intuition draw engine itself is less impressive than it might appear. For three cards, you're charged a hefty five mana. While this cost can be spread out over two turns, keep in mind that even Concentrate costs you less mana than this. For two mana less, Thirst for Knowledge digs you just as deep, and has the synergistic bonus of letting you discard an artifact for your Welder to feast on.

Regarding Intuition being out of Drain Slaver's tempo. I've been thinking about this lately and I'm wondering why Skeletal Scrying fits more in this tempo. Skeletal Scrying is a mid-to-late game card. Casting Intuition on turn 2, even if you are gunning at Accumulated Knowledge, is a fine play. It would act as a cantrip that thins your deck from 3 cards (hence higher Welder density in the deck later on) and may net you 3 additionnal cards on the following turn. OTOH, Skeletal Scrying is a terrible play by turn 2 or turn 3. It's barely non castable by turn 2 because your graveyard will be empty, and quite barely non castable by turn 3 for the same reason. This means Skeletal Scrying is more of a turn >4 card. I'm surprised you reject Intuition because It's supposedly terrible in the Aggro and Combo matchups, but still rely on turn 4 or later cards for your own Slaver build. Are you casting Skeletal Scrying by turn 3 out of a turn 2 Mana Drain? No, your graveyard is still empty by then. Are you casting Intuition under the same circumstances? All day long.

Skeletal Scrying also means your mana base tends to be weaker and more vulnerable to Wasteland, since you have to fetch Underground Seas earlier in the game. My current Slaver build supports Black and does not even run Underground Seas, just a plain basic Swamp. And yet It has Crucible of Worlds backup.

You previously mentionned you were playing Drain Slaver as a real Yawgmoth's Will deck. Me too. But then I'd rather play cards that are awesome graveyard fillers and Yawgmoth's Will setups (Intuitions) over cards that empty your graveyard and lessened your Yawgmoth's Will (Skeletal Scrying).

Yet another problem with the Intuition/Accumulated Knowledge engine is that it makes Control Slaver even more vulnerable to graveyard hate.

I really don't understand this argument. Just imagine your opponent has a Tormod's Crypt on the board. If you are running Intuition, you cast It EOT, getting 3 Accumulated Knowledge, then cast It. What happens now? Either your opponent sacrifices the Tormod's Crypt, in order to prevent you from drawing 3. That's fine, but you still get to cantrip your Accumulated Knowledge, and the Mindslaver you were holding in hand is safe from RFG. Or your opponent does not sacrifice it, and you get to draw 3 cards, hence more Welders to fight the Crypt. Now what happens if you are not running Accumulated Knowledge? Opponent keeps his Tormod's Crypt on the board, and waits for your Mindslaver. From my own experience, running the Accumulated Knowledge helps a lot against graveyard removal.

That is, you are also contradicting your own arguments with your deck design. Last time I checked, Skeletal Scrying has an additionnal cost, and this cost is "remove X cards from your graveyard from the game". Yeah, fine, so what If you are facing Withered Wretch or a first turn Planar Void? I bet Skeletal Scrying won't net your cards. A well timely Intuition for Accumulated Knowledge will *still* get you cards. Just wait for your opponent tapping too much mana or play around Planar Void's triggered effect.

I'm fine with you claming Intuition + Accumulated Kwnowledge are training wheels, but please come on with better arguments, because your latest decklist is consistently contradicting your article.

[The Atog Lord]

Toad,

You should not use extremely outdated lists to back up your arguments since that's pretty counterproductive.

Fair enough. I'll tell you what. If you give me a more recent version of AK Slaver, then I will make a good-faith effort to test it against regular Control Slaver.

As for Skeletal Scrying. I see that you've cleverly argued against my article by showing how my arguments against AK can also be used against Scrying. The only problem here is that I did not mention Scrying anywhere in my article. I had good results with Scrying in a single tournament, in a single distinct and perhaps skewed metagame. However, this is far different than advocating that the card is the be-all-end-all card in the deck; that, I never claimed. While I have had a good run with it in one even, more testing is required to determine whether it belongs in the deck permanently.

I have tried countless different cards in various Control Slaver builds to test those cards. These have included Mind's Eye, Ophidian, Misdirection, Lightning Greaves, and even that Island-Cycling bird. And even Intuition/AK.  I experiment a lot with my builds, and do not by any means claim to have perfected the deck. I post my lists, even though I know that they might not yet be perfect, because I believe in sharing my informaion and passing it on to the community. And now you pounce on me for this? To say that one list I used once is sub-optimal is perhaps true, but really more ad-hominem than anything else.

One more thing. Let me just say that I have no personal interest in how this deck is built. My singular goal is to find the optimal build of Control Slaver. If that is with AK, great. If it is not, and that is my current thinking, then that is also great. I'm not here to be a champion of any one build of the deck, and I have on multiple occasions in the past incorporated others' ideas into the lists that I run. I don't take Control Slaver's build personally. Perhaps its name, but not the build.

[Distortion]

I would like to point out here that what Rich failed to mention is that Scrying tends to be a bit better than Intuition/AK in the CS mirror because it can't be REB'd(Which at least 3 of which will be coming in on both ends of the game).  That said, my personal view on this argument is this, Control is a good matchup anyway, why then are you removing the single best card against aggro in the entire deck(Pentavus)?  To reduce the deck's abiltiy to withstand the harder matchups within the metagame(aggro) so that it will "win more" against the easy ones(control) is the hight of folly.

Side Note:
I also am growing a bit dissatisfied with people's classification of Slave locking someone as the deck's kill condition, it is not and cannot be.  What slaving does is provide you with a ridiculous tempo(and sometimes CA) swing, from which you can win the game.  

Edit: Cleaned up a bit

[nataz]

Side Note:
I also am growing a bit dissatisfied with people's classification of Slave locking someone as the deck's kill condition, it is not and cannot be.  What slaving does is provide you with a ridiculous tempo(and sometimes CA) swing, from which you can win the game.  

Ummm, hate to point this out, but a slave lock is in almost all cases a win.

At that point in time, your opponents never get to take another turn, and if you wanted to you can just beat down with welders.

To slaver someone does not always result in a win (although it certainly can). To get a slaver lock, should however be a win, provided you don't deck yourself first.

[Mark_Story]

I think scrying's invincibility to REB is what made it playable in a meta such as the recent waterbury.  With the deluge of other slaver decks, and an apparent lack of aggro, makes scrying an excellent draw card for that specific metagame, which instead of tearing on Atog lord, we should make a little note and keep it for if your local metagame  becomes mental like waterbury was.

[Distortion]

Ummm, hate to point this out, but a slave lock is in almost all cases a win.

At that point in time, your opponents never get to take another turn, and if you wanted to you can just beat down with welders.

To slaver someone does not always result in a win (although it certainly can). To get a slaver lock, should however be a win, provided you don't deck yourself first.

Maybe I needed to be more clear here, though I do beleive I was clear enough.  Slave locking someone is a way to ensure inevitability NOT winning, and is really only important in matchups where you have absolutely no other way to win without complete control.

It is FAR easier to establish 2-3 turns of slaving in a Shay style CS deck than it is to estabilsh the full lock in the Intuition version, because of the fact that the deck requires far less of its key cards to come out (Intuition: Either Intuition(resolving), Welder, Slaver in Yard through Thirst or HC, or: Crucible, Citadel, Slaver in Yard or HC, Welder.  Shay: Some discard  mechanic or HC slaver, any artifact, Welder) and because one of its key cards(Pentavus) being the single best aggro hoser I personally have ever seen.  The fact is that when playing slaver, rushing towards the infinate lock is generally the wrong play in the Shay version, rather you set yourself up to kill somone over the turns you have them slaved.  In the intuition version you will rarely ever have that opporunity however, as a huge portion of your deck that would otherwise have been devoted to artifacts and win conditions is now devoted to draw.

I was attempting to make that clear, resiliency and threat density, are what make CS good, NOT an infinate lock(which is nice too).

[Rico Suave]

Nice read.

Maybe it's just a matter of how I play the control mirror, but if I had to name a non-restricted card that's most defining in the mirror it would be Mana Drain.  It has been a key card for a long time in any control mirror.  What I discovered is that abusing Drain is a much more difficult task to achieve when playing with many spells that tap me out in the early game, such as those Intuitions and AKs.  First turn Welder into second turn Intuition is a strong play, but that violates one of the fundamental rules of the control mirror - don't walk into Mana Drain!  

In a control mirror, the first player to flinch often loses.  I think an understated point is that having more mana puts pressure on your opponent to flinch first, since if they don't act then you will develop a stronger mana base and be in a better position to force through end of turn draw before they can.  There's a big difference between end of turn draw, and end of turn draw with Drain back-up.  The problem lies in that people view Intuition as a 3 mana card, when in the mirror it really feels like a 5 mana card and then another 4 mana if you want that AK to resolve.  

There are other benefits to Intuition that have already been mentioned by others.  It is certainly a good card, and in fact I give it much respect because it can end the game.  The difference I think is that I trust Will to end the game much more than I trust Intuition to do the same, and I don't even need to run those cumbersome AKs to make Will good enough to find a spot.

[nataz]

But why would you intuition for AK's early in the game (turn 2) vs Shay Slaver?

I think the only time I play intuition on turn two in the control mirror is when I have a welder out, and I want to drop a crucible/strip down.

[Rico Suave]

I fully agree with you.

My point was that if you do that quick Welder and Intuition move in the mirror, it will often hand your opponent the game.  

If you wait and keep your own Mana Drains online, especially when the game can end at any moment of any turn, you don't want to be stuck with an Intuition in hand and not enough mana to cast whatever you get.  

It's about tempo.  

That's why REB is so good against blue-based control, especially ones that play Intuition (Tog is even worse).  They are the ones losing the tempo when their clogged slots of 3-5cc spells gets stopped for just one mana.  It's also why I don't like Intuition or AK against combo, since they'll just Duress your counters and leave you with cards that don't help when your opponent wins before 3cc cards come online.

[nataz]

@ Intuition and Tempo

Right, but why can't Goth Slaver wait and hold its drains also? Both decks have drains, both decks have forces, TFK, welders, etc. Just because the deck can cast a turn two intuition, doesn’t mean it has to. If its not safe, the Goth Slaver loses nothing by waiting.

You still seem to be thinking of Intuition incorrectly. Its not a draw spell, its a Demonic Tutor that lets you get three cards, at instant speed.  

The difference is, when I pump my drain mana into an intuition game one vs control slaver, I will win the game. I can fetch my maindeck lava dart, crucible, strip, mindslaver, plat, or DA or AK. I can tutor for whatever I need the most, or whatever will break the game wide open. Intuition for Crucible, Strip, and Lava Dart in the mirror is stupid good, and one heck of a tempo swing. Note, none of that takes any mana other then the initial 3 from intuition.

I can do all of this in addition to the Drain tricks of TFK, Casting a big Will, hardcasting slaver, etc, that BOTH decks can do.

If anything, I'd say that Goth Slaver can use Mana Drain better then Control Slaver, because of Intuition. I would much rather pump Drain mana into Intuition then TFK.    

The main difference in the match up for me was always duress. Turn one duress could be back breaking in the Control Slaver v. Goth Slaver match, giving control slaver a decent look at what’s coming down the pipe, and denying Goth Slaver of its Draw/Tutor/Counter. Otherwise, I tended to use my higher concentration of bombs to just eventually overwhelm them.

@ Slaver Lock Differences

It is FAR easier to establish 2-3 turns of slaving in a Shay style CS deck than it is to establish the full lock in the Intuition version, because of the fact that the deck requires far less of its key cards to come out (Intuition: Either Intuition(resolving), Welder, Slaver in Yard through Thirst or HC, or: Crucible, Citadel, Slaver in Yard or HC, Welder.  Shay: Some discard  mechanic or HC slaver, any artifact, Welder) and because one of its key cards(Pentavus) being the single best aggro hoser I personally have ever seen.

I'll admit, I'm confused by what you just said.

-Agreed, a partial lock (i.e., "2-3 turns" or anything less then a full lock) is easier to set up, but that would be true of either deck. You can't compare a partial lock vs a hard lock, different animals.

Both set up partial locks the same way.

1. Welder on Board
2. Slaver on Board
3  4 Mana free
4. X Artifacts

The difference is in the infinite lock.
Both require

1. Welder on Board
2. Slaver on Board
3  4 Mana free
4. X Artifacts

Furthermore

Goth requires

5. Crucible
6. Artifact Land

Control requires

5. Welder
6. Pent

I tend to like the artifact\crucible version because its second enabler doesn’t have summoning sickness. The trade off is you have to deal with artifact hate aimed the crucible.  

That's it, that’s the difference. If anything, Intuition gives you another outlet to drop something in the grave, and therefore a cheaper activation though welding, but I'm not sure how more options slow the decks ability to slaver (either infinite or a partial lock) at all.

So yea, I don't know what you are talking about it being "FAR" easier really for either deck.

[Rico Suave]

Right, but why can't Goth Slaver wait and hold its drains also? Both decks have drains, both decks have forces, TFK, welders, etc. Just because the deck can cast a turn two intuition, dosn't mean it has to. If its not safe, the Goth Slaver loses nothing by waiting.

Well, the point I was trying to convey earlier is that by playing it safe it tends to favor the player with more lands.  LoA is noteworthy here as well.    

If anything, I'd say that Goth Slaver can use Mana Drain better then Control Slaver, because of Intution. I would much rather pump Drain mana into Intuition then TFK.

I believe both versions have no problem abusing Mana Drain.  I recognize that Mana Drain itself wins games, whether it's being dumped into TFK, Intuition, or a large artifact such as Slaver.  Whether Intuition abuses Mana Drain more than TFK or not isn't the right frame of mind, which is why I tried to put so much emphasis on Drain's importance in my posts.  It's akin to saying card X won you the game when it was really your first turn Ancestral.

[nataz]

Well, the point I was trying to convey earlier is that by playing it safe it tends to favor the player with more lands.  LoA is noteworthy here as well

Fair enough, although I am unsure what the exact extent of that effect would be in a real world comparison with A) the fast mana floating around in both decks, and B) brainstorm combined with shuffle effects. And, although LOA is noteworthy as a one of in Control Slaver, so is Strip Mine in Goth Slaver.  

Whether Intuition abuses Mana Drain more than TFK or not isn't the right frame of mind, which is why I tried to put so much emphasis on Drain's importance in my posts.  

- Agree whole heartedly, it was not that mana drain is abused in this deck (which it is) that I had a problem with you saying, it was this...

There's a big difference between end of turn draw, and end of turn draw with Drain back-up. The problem lies in that people view Intuition as a 3 mana card, when in the mirror it really feels like a 5 mana card and then another 4 mana if you want that AK to resolve.

which in my mind makes no sense, unless you are using the Intuition purely as a draw spell in the mirror, and not as a tutor -> answers.

The point you made that I contested, and still contest, is that Intuition is a clunky draw spell in the mirror. Its not a clunky draw spell, its an undercosted tutor on steriods.

[Toad]

The problem lies in that people view Intuition as a 3 mana card, when in the mirror it really feels like a 5 mana card and then another 4 mana if you want that AK to resolve.

The real problem lies in that people have no clue about what to Intuition in the mirror and start mentionning some Accumulated Knowledge nonsense to back up their flawed arguments.

[The Atog Lord]

Toad,

Perhaps my poor results from Goth Slaver result from my using an outdated list. Or perhaps I have not been playing the deck well. In either case, I see a solution.

In case my results came from an outdated list, as I said before, if you send me a recent list, I will make a good-faith effort to test that against my build of Control Slaver.

Perhaps, as you imply here, it is that I don't play Goth Slaver correctly. In  that case, if you're up for it, we could play some games on MWS at some point. I'm sure that I would benefit from watching Goth Slaver being played correctly. And if our results are interesting enough, then it may lead to some article we could write together.

[jingles]

First off Good job on the SCG article it was a nice perspective on a big part of CS.  I personally feel that the Intuition/AK engine is a ideal choice and thus far it has proven itself although it may leave your opening hand a bit less then desireable all of the cards say "hey I can get you more cards". Now that deserves some merit. And as mentioned i have no prob pitching an intuition to a FOW to stop a First turn 3phere. The deck mechanic works well in setting up a Amazing yawg will turn too after intuitively searching for the time walk, Ancestral recall, welder etc...  I mean there are countless ways that the intuition works hard for you. Its up to you to be intuitive about what to look for.

[Demonic Attorney]

As Rich's testing partner for a good portion of his investigation into the machinations of Goth Slaver, let me echo his sentiments and say that the Intuition/AK engine proved more of a liability than an asset in all of our games.  Whoever was playing Goth Slaver would just kind sit there staring at the 2 AK's in their hand while the other player dropped threats or more potent draw spells.  And this doesn't even account for how hugely different the dynamics of the Slaver vs. Slaver matchup became when the CS player knew they didn't need to worry about Yawgmoth's Will.  That single card is a major influence in every play decision that occurs after turn four in a Slaver matchup.  Not having to worry about it is a tremendous advantage.  

To respond to a couple of individual points, I've heard it mentioned that since Rich included Skeletal Scrying in his latest Slaver build, then AK must have a redeeming value similar to Scrying in the matchups where Scrying is good.  To add to Rich's response, let me also say this.  Scrying currently occupies 2 slots in the current CS build.  AK alone accounts for 4 in Goth slaver.  At least when we playtested Goth Slaver vs. CS, the sheer number of AK's which on their own aren't particularly helpful served to clog the flow of the deck, especially in the early-mid game.  Thus, Scrying has the utility of card drawing without the drawback of space commitment that accompanies AK.  Also, a single scrying swings the balance of the game at least as far as an AK for 3, if not farther, all by itself.

Additionally, I've been hearing over and over that Rich is basing his conclusions regarding Goth Slaver on the testing performance of an outdated list.  Since I'm basing my own comments here on those same results, I'll also humbly request an updated list of Goth Slaver to run in testing to see how much of a difference there is.  If this isn't satisfactory, one of the more experienced Goth Slaver players can feel free to find me at an event and test a few games against me there, and we can report those results.

[Smmenen]

If you aren't using Yawgmoth's Will in Goth Slaver (as a co-designer mid summer), then you are missing the point of the deck.  Goth Slaver is a yawgmoth's will combo deck - that's why I only used 3 Weldlers.  Everything else is bait.

[Demonic Attorney]

The list that existed at the time of our testing did not include black.  I'm not sure what more could be expected of us given those circumstances.  I'm sure you'll agree it's unreasonable to think that people should anticipate future changes to a deck when testing it.  Again, if someone will furnish us with a more current list of Goth Slaver, I for one will be happy to test it and update the results.

[Windfall]

We've been testing it with a single Underground Sea to cast Yawgmoth's Will.  With 5-6 Fetchlands (depending on the meta), it's not hard to find it when you have Will in hand.  Not to mention, we have Jet and Lotus (And Will is often cast off Lotus anyway).  I don't believe one should ever play Slaver without Yawgmoth's Will.  Paired with Tinker, the deck now has two three mana spells that say "You win the game."

I concede that Intuition is very solid in Goth Slaver builds.  The deck does set up a very quick Slaver lock, and it's something that other decks need to watch out for.  Strip Mine aside, the Artifact Land tricks are pretty busted with Crucible.  The problem is that Crucible, Strip Mine, and lone AKs don't help you when you're losing.

I do not, however, like the AKs.  I've never seen my teamate Intuition for AKs unless he's already winning and has nothing better to do with it.

[racetraitor]

The list that existed at the time of our testing did not include black.  I'm not sure what more could be expected of us given those circumstances.  I'm sure you'll agree it's unreasonable to think that people should anticipate future changes to a deck when testing it.  Again, if someone will furnish us with a more current list of Goth Slaver, I for one will be happy to test it and update the results.

Intuition Slaver has been a Yawgmoth's Will deck ever since it's creation by John Zang and the other Gothenburg players in early '04. This can be seen in the T8 of it's breakout tournament, GothCon: http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=144 So to say that the addition of black to the deck was a "future change" is just wrong: Kim Klück created Control Slaver with Yawgmoth's Will as a centerpiece and John Zang built upon that when he made Intuition Slaver. People have experimented with U/r lists after that with various results, but they are not to bee seen as the norm. The world is larger than America you know

[Demonic Attorney]

Oh Em Gee!  I r the 1gn0r4nT Am3ric4n and U sure pwned me there, racetraitor!  Oh wait.  France isn't included in American geographical territory.  I guess that means that when we took the list we tested from this article we managed to free ourselves from the burden of American solipsism just long enough to muster a fleeting recognition of a decklist posted by someone from France.  Y'know, that country outside of America.  But don't let minor details like that get in the way of being condescending or anything.

In all seriousness, your position seems to be predicated on a distortion of fact.  You reference Kim Kluck's inclusion of YawgWill in the early versions of CS, and John Zang's Intuition Slaver build also featuring Yawgmoth's Will.  Suspiciously absent is any reference to a build of Goth Slaver.  Y'know, the deck I was talking about.  Just to catch you up on relevant details, the conversation thus far has centered around the testing performance of a deck written about on SCG by Toad.  Called "Toadislaver", or "Crucislaver" by some and "Goth Slaver" by others, the decklist included the following cards:

// Mana Sources -- 25
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Flooded Strand
1 Strip Mine
2 Darksteel Citadel
4 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island
5 Island

// Expensive Artifacts -- 4
2 Mindslaver
1 Pentavus
1 Platinum Angel

// Recursion -- 5
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Goblin Welder

// Draw -- 19
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
3 Intuition
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Thirst for Knowledge

// Protection -- 8
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain

Note the absence of Yawgmoth's Will.  Moreover, the creator of the deck went onto say in his article that "I find Black to be a win-more color in the deck and I prefer staying away from it."  If there are other decks that run the Will, or later builds of Goth Slaver that include it, that's just spiffy.  But at the time I had tested the deck, the SCG list was the most prominent one.  Hence, it was the list I used.  I fail to see how the existence of a world outside of America figures into that equation at all.

[Smmenen]

The first Goth Slaver list posted in an article is in mine:

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=8410

And yet you might ask: what is Gothenburg Slaver?

In July, the Swedes played a very interesting Slaver variant that we immediately fell in love with. We were mystified that no one else discovered it. The Slaver lists that Oberg and his friend played were untuned as far as we were concerned, and so we went about tuning it and it only took a few weeks to finish the deck.

Gothenburg Slaver is disgusting because it has two draw engines, not just one. The rough outline of the deck is:

Turn 1:
Land.

Turn 2:
Mox, Land, Intuition for Accumulated Knowledges

Turn 3:
Accumulated Knowledge for three and Accumulated Knowledge for four.

Turn 4:
Intuition for Mindslaver, Mindslaver, Pentavus or Intuition for Mana Crypt, Black Lotus, and Time Walk for your next turn:

Turn 5:
Yawgmoth's Will.

Intuition was clearly ridiculous in a deck like this as it has so many purposes. Here was the deck we were testing internally during the summer:

"Goth" Slaver
4 Intuition
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Goblin Welder
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mind Twist
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Pentavus
2 Mindslaver
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
5 Fetchlands
4 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault

We had the deck for months but kept it under wraps until I published it in that article and then Toaddy in his.

[Rico Suave]

Well, the point I was trying to convey earlier is that by playing it safe it tends to favor the player with more lands.  LoA is noteworthy here as well

Fair enough, although I am unsure what the exact extent of that effect would be in a real world comparison with A) the fast mana floating around in both decks, and B) brainstorm combined with shuffle effects. And, although LOA is noteworthy as a one of in Control Slaver, so is Strip Mine in Goth Slaver.  

Fast mana is relevant, but both decks have it like you said.  It means both decks can go broken first, but that doesn't address how each version performs when they're looking at UU open on each side of the board.

An early Brainstorm and shuffle is great, but without the shuffle effect a BS digging for mana is a waste of a BS, in my opinion.  I'd rather have an extra mana source and just play it, thus saving my BS until I have a shuffle effect.  Maybe that's just a difference between how we play.

Strip Mine is a fine card with Crucible out, but only mediocre otherwise.  LoA shines because it gains card-advantage without having to resolve a spell.  Certainly there is a clear difference there.

Whether Intuition abuses Mana Drain more than TFK or not isn't the right frame of mind, which is why I tried to put so much emphasis on Drain's importance in my posts.  

- Agree whole heartedly, it was not that mana drain is abused in this deck (which it is) that I had a problem with you saying, it was this...

There's a big difference between end of turn draw, and end of turn draw with Drain back-up. The problem lies in that people view Intuition as a 3 mana card, when in the mirror it really feels like a 5 mana card and then another 4 mana if you want that AK to resolve.

which in my mind makes no sense, unless you are using the Intuition purely as a draw spell in the mirror, and not as a tutor -> answers.

The point you made that I contested, and still contest, is that Intuition is a clunky draw spell in the mirror. Its not a clunky draw spell, its an undercosted tutor on steriods.

An undercosted Tutor is Demonic Tutor, or Mystical Tutor.  Vampiric Tutor is hardly used at all, and even that finds Tinker and Will.  An overcosted tutor is Diabolic Tutor, and Intuition is only one mana less.  It is hardly undercosted, as tutors go.

That aside, I've already said I respect Intuition and what it can do.  I'm certainly not ignorant of the fact that if it resolves it can be very dangerous.  My point is that getting it to become card-draw in the mirror is very draining on the tempo, and clogging the 2 and 3 slots in your mana curve is not healthy for the deck's flow.

Perhaps this will clear it up.  My dislike of Intuition stems from AK being an awful card.  If I were forced to play Intuition in Slaver, I would do it without the AKs and Intuition would still be strong.  However, playing without AK turns Intuition into a rather disappointing card-drawer, and so other adjustments need to be made which may not be the best choice if Intuition weren't present (such as running maindeck Lava Dart, possibly Deep Anal, etc).  In other words, I'd be running sub-optimal cards just to make Intuition fit, when Intuition is already questionable because it's weak against bad matches aside from the mirror.  Is it worth it?  Maybe for some.

The real problem lies in that people have no clue about what to Intuition in the mirror and start mentionning some Accumulated Knowledge nonsense to back up their flawed arguments.

Toad:

Normally I don't like responding to such a post lacking in content, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.  Let's look at the Intuition-Slaver decklist which put up results (straight from the article):

Jeffrey Tussi, 1st at Waterbury
Control Slaver

1 Platinum Angel
1 Pentavus
4 Goblin Welder
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Cunning Wish
2 Intuition
1 Lava Dart
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mindslaver
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal

1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Flooded Strand
4 Volcanic Island
5 Island

Sideboard
1 Lava Dart
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Duplicant
1 Platinum Angel
3 Rack and Ruin
2 Blood Moon
3 Arcane Lab

Perhaps Intuition for AK is not the best move.  Let's examine how each card performs with Intuition as far as the mirror is concerned.

AK - No doubt we both agree that this is the wrong choice a majority of the time.

Plat/Pent/Slaver - Useful with Welder out, not very useful when trying to establish control.  Notably absent is a 2nd Mindslaver, which would allow you to put 2 Mindslavers in an Intuition and secure that Mindslaver goes to the grave.  Still a possibility, although space prohibits it.  

Goblin Welder - Intuition for this is a good way to lose all your Welders to a single Lava Dart.  

Mana Drain/Force - Certainly possible, although desperate and rare.

Brainstorm/Thirst for Knowledge - Pointless to put in Intuition.

Cunning Wish - Only 2, so you can't reliably put one in your hand.

Lava Dart - Always good to put in an Intuition with any other 2 cards.  

Ancestral, Tinker, Mystical, Time Walk, Black Lotus, Academy, LoA, etc - I suppose if you just want the best of 3 broken cards, you could put Ancestral, Tinker, and something else worthwhile.  Black variants can put Demonic Tutor on that list, but if black were included then other things would need to be dropped.
 
Even if you want to include Crucible/Strip/Seat in an Intuition, which isn't in the winning list mind you, then Intuition would complete your 2 card combo if you've drawn one of the pieces, although Intuitioning for Crucible usually requires an active Welder.

Deep Anal - Intuition for 2 DA and a random card (probably Lava Dart) is good to overcome counters, although it amounts to a whopping 11 mana to draw 6 cards.  Slaving somebody only takes 10, I should mention.  

As far as the SB goes, you get a 2nd Lava Dart.  Coffin Purge has nice synergy with Intuition, but is not applicable to the mirror.

So all in all, if we are to sum up all of the uses for Intuition that don't require an active Welder, we are left with 4 frequent possibilities:
1) Lava Dart
2) Deep Analysis
3) 3 Broken cards
4) AK

No, that's not the extent of what Intuition can do, but it is the extent to which Intuition can consistently do and it's a rather disappointing list on the whole for a all the sacrifices that need to be made in order to include Intuition in the first place.  Lava Dart is an excellent target, but it doesn't stop Will or Slaver.  

Now, Toad, I have outlined what Intuition can do for me in the mirror, including choices that weren't even in the winning decklist, and I in fact have left several uses out.  I've played Intuition for a long time now.  I've played it in everything from Slaver to Stax to Tog and ranging back to Reap-Lace several years ago (Intuition is a monster there).  I'd hate to think that I misunderstand how to use the card, so please enlighten me as to what you Intuition for in the mirror that is absent from my list, and why that's worth playing Intuition.

[Demonic Attorney]

We had the deck for months but kept it under wraps until I published it in that article and then Toaddy in his.

I guess the logical conclusion that can be derived from this statement is that we were testing the more contemporaneous list at the time Toad's list was published, by using his instead of yours.  Since it has been so thoroughly established in this thread by now that testing old or outdated lists is unacceptable, I'm sure you can understand our rationale there.

[crazynlazy]

I liked the article. But one thing, intuition can be used to get the artifacts you need to get into your graveyard instead of just AK's

[The Atog Lord]

I liked the article. But one thing, intuition can be used to get the artifacts you need to get into your graveyard instead of just AK's

I certainly mentioned this in the article.

Finally, what about Intuition alone, without the Accumulated Knowledge? I have already outlined the reasons I dislike Accumulated Knowledge in Control Slaver, but what about Intuition to get artifacts into the graveyard for Goblin Welder to return?

My basic point here was that while a strong play when it works, it is useful only when the deck has an active Welder. And an artifact out.