super cool artifact thing

[orgcandman]

Ok, I had this intensely awesome idea today in the shower, but wanted some help refining it, and costing it appropriately. Since it's something brand-spanking new (kindof like Mindslaver was a totally new ability and so, went to artifacts) I know it has to be an artifact. It's soo interesting though, and could easily provide hours of fun. Without further ado:

Wackadoodle
some cost
Artifact
Players play spells without paying any costs.  (If there is an X in the casting cost, X must still be announced)
If a spell is played this way, all costs are paid on resolution.
If a player cannot pay all costs for a spell played this way, that spell is countered.


I need some help with the actual wording, naming, flavortext etc.

Why I wanted to make this card:

- First and foremost, it beats counterspell over the head. You can play a card, if they counter, you didn't lose anything. If they
don't counter, then you pay while it's resolving. W00t!
- Second, it's a cool way of stopping "As an additional cost" spells. Players always want to see someone tinker/scrying/something
while holding onto some sort of spell to deal with the additional cost. Now, they really can counter tinker with shaman, or counter
scrying with mudhole, or something.
- Third, it doesn't actually break anything because all costs are still paid. It doesn't circumvent costs, which is a big scary monster of its own.
- Fourth, it can make casual control mirrors hilarious.

Current wording:
Wackadoodle
some cost
Artifact
Players play spells without paying any costs.  (If there is an X in the casting cost, X must still be announced)
If a spell is played this way, all costs are paid on resolution.
If a player cannot pay all costs for a spell played this way, that spell is countered.

[Ephraim]

I can think if a couple of examples of cards that this breaks (or at least damages.) At the very least, we'd need to know when during resolution you have to pay costs — that is to say, before or after the card's effect takes place. If after, then consider the following examples:

Dark Ritual, Seething Song, etc. — You can play it with no mana in your pool and use some of the mana generated to pay the card's cost.

Rewind, Cloud of Faeries, etc. — Basically the same principle as with the rituals. If you get to pay for it after its effect occurs, then you can play them, as long as you have the correct land in play.

Now, I suspect by the way you've described these that the cost would have to be paid before the effect occurs (because having it be countered upon resolution after you've done its effect would really screw up cards like Brainstorm.) Nonetheless, the templating for this is going to be ghastly. It's a neat idea, I suppose, but the rules entanglement combined with the narrowness may make it unprintable. I'm curious, though. How exactly do you see this making casual more interesting? The point seems so subtle that I can hardly see it mattering in many casual metagames.

[orgcandman]

I can think if a couple of examples of cards that this breaks (or at least damages.) At the very least, we'd need to know when during resolution you have to pay costs — that is to say, before or after the card's effect takes place. If after, then consider the following examples:

Dark Ritual, Seething Song, etc. — You can play it with no mana in your pool and use some of the mana generated to pay the card's cost.

I indeed wanted this to happen before the spells effect.

I'm curious, though. How exactly do you see this making casual more interesting? The point seems so subtle that I can hardly see it mattering in many casual metagames.

Actually, in a ton of casual metagames, there's always that guy who plays 1290381 counterspells, with the most retarded win condition (like 1 stalkingstones or something). This card would pretty much wreck that guy, since you could play your threat, and if he counters, so what? you didn't pay yet. It's basically an artifact that makes instants worse, rather than one of the infinate cards that makes instants better.

As for templating, I'm hoping some rules guru can help with that.

[Matt]

I don't think templating is the problem here. I don't think we should be messing with that particular area of the rules. If you want to hurt instants, there's a TON of easier, cleaner ways to do it. Defense Grid comes to mind.

[Jacob Orlove]

A looooong time ago, we made a green fattie that untaps your lands if he's countered. You could always expand on that mechanic.

[orgcandman]

A looooong time ago, we made a green fattie that untaps your lands if he's countered. You could always expand on that mechanic.

That seems like a better thing to do, it accomplishes the same goal, and is neat.

How about something like:

Whenever a spell you play becomes countered, untap all lands used to play that spell.

[dandan]

This is pretty savage with that Multani's Presence which gives you a card whenever one of your spells is countered (essentially giving all your spells Cycling 0 - remember the last time someone tried that), also fun with Enchantress as playing the Enchantment is often more useful than having it resolve.

Also works with Storm. Why pay mana for your spells, just play them, let them be countered and cast the Storm kill card of your choice.

This seems rather narrow and far from a casual card it is a combo enabler. Because of the narrow cost it could sneak by with a too low cost  (especially as Presence only costs G and is pretty solid versus control decks on its own)