If Chaos Orb were unbanned, would it see play?

[Shade]

I don't know that Chaos Orb will ever be unbanned, but the door has at least been slightly cracked with the recent legalization of Portal and Starter cards.

So, suppose Chaos Orb were unbanned, but restricted, for T1 play?

It's basically a 2cc artifact that can destroy anything on the board (creatures, enchantments, other artifacts, lands, etc.), and can even grab multiple items if flipped well enough.  Of course, I'm not sure what the restrictions would be on "play area constraint," so that there wouldn't be cards everywhere like the old, casual days.

Thoughts?

[ELD]

It has been said that making the destruction of the permanent random would make the card playable.  Rolling dice would be the easiest way to make that happen.  I cannot see allowing a card that rewards manual dexterity in a game like magic.

[Bastian]

Chaos Orb and Falling Star are both banned because of rules issues and because it depends more on physical ability which would put someone with some kind of handicap or unble to flip the card to not be able to play it. Well... at least I think it goes something like it.

So I highly doubt that it'll ever be unbanned. But if it did it would quite surely see play in ANY deck. It's cheap, it's an artifact and besides destroying any kind of permanent it can destroy any ammount of permanents. Definitly something you'd like to have in ANY deck.

[Malhavoc]

It has too many technical problems. Is the opponent allowed to move cards before? During? Too many problems... it will never see play apart from drastic errata.

Anyway, a friend of mine found the way to "break" this card (not litterally): since the plastic cover you use for the card is considered part of the card (according to the errata), you just need to use HUGE card covers (like 80x80 cms  :lol:  ). This way you can hit ALL opponent's cards with just one orb! Only problem: since of course all your cards need to have the same cover, you will certainly have problems shuffling your deck...   ..but I would pay for just seeing the face of my opponent seeing me holding 7 80x80 cards.

[Wollblad]

When it was legal, it was almost always agreed to be played as "Destroy target Permanent". It would, as it was then, be played in virtually every deck, with the excepteion of some combodecks. It would be expensive to buy too!

[Shade]

Well, flipping a coin requires manual dexterity too.  Hell, so does rolling a die, for that matter.

[ELD]

Well, flipping a coin requires manual dexterity too. Hell, so does rolling a die, for that matter.

No, no it doesn't.  Both of those things can be done by a judge, or anyone, without affecting anything.  Flipping a chaos orb with accuracy would require skill.  That skill would have nothing to do with playing cards well.  It should not be part of the game as a result of that.  The best magic players in the world should not be respected for their card flipping prowess.

[Hi-Val]

Another way I could see it working would be the two players selecting an opponent's permanent, and a coinflip decides who loses their perm. It'd make the card fun, but probably not playable. In its current incarnation, Chaos Orb won't work.

[leviat]

I feel that the most realistic errata would be in the form of something like.

Chaos Orb
Artifact
, , Sacrifice Chaos Orb: Choose any number of permanents. Flip a coin for each permanent or until you lose a flip, whichever comes first. If you win all the flips, destroy chosen permanents.

It matches the original theme of the card (destroy untargetables and ability to hit multiple permanents) while still being somewhat risky.

[Royal Ass.]

The biggest problem I remember when Chaos Orb was leagal is that everyone would play with their cards spread all over the place.  This was annoying.

I think it would be great if an errataed, but playable Chaos Orb could come back as a restricted card.  It has a lot of old school historical value.

[Disburden]

I used to run a deck way back in the day that relied mostly on U to counter all threats and then play Orb to destroy anything I couldn't counter against my opponent. This was a Loooooong time ago. The ability to flip this thing accurately won me almost all my games I drew the Chaos Orb. This card is insane, shouldn't have ever been printed, and yes I would play it if I could. Anyone that practices with it would!!

And about spreading cards all over the place: I used to tape my cards in all wacky places vertically to escape the wrath of the Orb. It was quite silly.

[jpmeyer]

As just a 3cc colorless Vindicate, probably.

[The Atog Lord]

Choas Orb is banned because it requires a judge to be called whenever it is activated.

As for making it into a vindicate, I would hate to see such a cool card be reduced to something so basic. However, should that happen, I would start throwing four into every deck I play.

[Dr. Sylvan]

It will never happen, and I'm glad it won't. Dexterity cards are the silliest thing in Magic's past right next to ante. They're even worse than coin flips, and I HATE coin flips.

[Diakonov]

Anyway, a friend of mine found the way to "break" this card (not litterally): since the plastic cover you use for the card is considered part of the card (according to the errata), you just need to use HUGE card covers (like 80x80 cms  :lol:  ). This way you can hit ALL opponent's cards with just one orb! Only problem: since of course all your cards need to have the same cover, you will certainly have problems shuffling your deck...   ..but I would pay for just seeing the face of my opponent seeing me holding 7 80x80 cards.

Actually, it can be broke even further.  Keep in mind that counters on cards are also considered part of the card such as, let's say, a 'charge' counter from Coretapper.  Since there is no official ruling as to what object needs to be used as a counter, you can use a pillow.  As long as the card and the pillow make the full turn in the air, it will sufficiently destroy every permanent in your game as well as the games nearby.  No joke, son.

[Jacob Orlove]

Wizards doesn't errata cards for power level reasons. Presumably, this includes ante and dexterity cards. In other words, Chaos Orb is not about to change. Since it's unacceptable in its current form, it's going to remain banned.

A cute trick with the current wording, though: Welding Jar.

[Jeffrey2d]

At one time I read or heard, that one of the issues with the flip cards is that they were unfair towards players with physical disabilities.  That is, these people were unable to use the cards, and therefore they were at a distinct play disadvantage.  Of course the Orb has enough else going against it that it probably won’t comeback anyway.

I remember the days when it was restricted, and it was a pain in the butt.  Everyone wanted their cards at least three inches apart, to avoid the Orb, and it took up too much space, especially at smaller card shop tournaments.  Plus it provided countless opportunities for argument.  I say let it stay where it is.  We don’t need another $400 staple anyway.

Of course Time Vault came back from the dead, after a major rules update, which reworked the card yet kept the original intent, so I guess it is not completely impossible; just extremely improbable.

[Matt]

No, it really is impossible, because the original intent - flipping the card - is exactly what's wrong with it. Well, the chief problem anyway. It simply is not even theoretically workable for anything but Unhinged/Unglued formats, I don't know why people don't see this. It seriously is less workable than [card]Fat Ass[/card], and by a WIDE margin (omfg pun).

[seer]

Anyone remember why orb was originally banned?

A player at one of the big tournaments back then wripped up his orb and scattered the peices all over his opponents cards killing the entire board!

Then the rule for desleaving your deck came about because a guy used to lick his sleeves to make his channel, lotus, fireball stick together.

[Jacob Orlove]

A player at one of the big tournaments back then wripped up his orb and scattered the peices all over his opponents cards killing the entire board!

That's what's known as an "urban legend". It's not actually true.

[Smmenen]

Orb would be amazing in Stax with Goblin Welder.

[Lofobal]

Orb is not coming back because it interacts with the game in a completely different way from any other card. Because of this, the rules don't work with it at all. You end up with really forced rules because the game isn't built to support it.

Think of it this way: the card only works in paper magic. It's the only real card (aside from its little brother, Falling Star) that cannot work in any form of Magic, aside from the paper version. Furthermore, rulings become absurd when take into account tokens, counters or Mindslaver. These often result in throwing a table at the game, telling your opponent precisely how to move his or her arm, and the like. Chaos Orb is undoubtedly the greatest rules abomination in rules history. I recall Mark Rosewater, around the time when Unhinged was released, wrote about how some cards were simple enough conceptually, but made no sense when put into the terms of Magic. These are the cards which are appropriate for the "Un-" sets of Magic.

On a different note (since discussing why the rules on Chaos Orb doesn't work in its current form feels like discussing why Black Lotus is a good card), the power of Orb is incredible; it's inexpensive, UNTARGETED, universal removal, and that's not even considering its interaction with artifact-support cards, such as Welder (as Smmenen pointed out) or Tinker. Were it legal, it would be restricted and run in every deck aside from blazingly fast combo, such Meandeck Tendrils. It's power cannot be understated: it's never dead, and, if we use the current rules, has the ability to totally obliterate your opponent's side of the board.

I hope they don't nuke the Orb rules-wise and bring it back. A colourless Vindicate would be powerful, but very bland in comparison to its current form. The banned Chaos Orb is legendary; I hope it stays that way.

[Matt]

it's inexpensive, UNTARGETED, universal removal

Which is kind of ironic because it is a guided missile - perhaps the ultimate in "targeting"!

[That0neguy]

If there was a way to have people be non retarted about it and leave their cards how they normally would or maby just space them slightly it would still see play just because it is untargetable removal for any non graveyard threat plus as steve mentioned it would be really stipid with welder

[seer]

A player at one of the big tournaments back then wripped up his orb and scattered the peices all over his opponents cards killing the entire board!

That's what's known as an "urban legend". It's not actually true.

Maybe, but one of the guys who was at the tournament which this took place told me about it back when I was a wee lad and magic was almost brand new.