[deck] "budget" Slaver control

[crazynlazy]

and every budget deck loves these three....

Null Rod
Chalice of the Void
Gorilla Shaman (also known to the world as the mox monkey)

why would you run null rod in a deck that wins by activating artifacts? chalice in slaver isn't very good either because if you put it on 1 you can't play welders. If set to 2 no drain/counterspell. Usually if you are going to set it higher than that they have already gotten there main threats out. gorilla shaman is only good in a certain meta.

[Aykay]

yet another addition - well, I'm *not* running ak's, but I've been testing on apprentice with intuition, and I love it.  it may take a little while, but I'm definitely going to go for them in the future.

I've tweaked the deck a little more, working darts into my maindeck.  One problem I've been having lately is enchantment hate.  As in - I need some, because Ground Seal, Pyrostatic Pillar, etc are quickly becoming popular again.  The obvious problem is that UR offers no enchantment hate.  Sooooo yeah, help me out here.

current main -
5 mountain
5 island
2 ancient tomb
2 gemstone mine
2 seat of the synod
2 great furnace
1 mana vault
1 sol ring
3 gilded lotus

4 welder
2 slaver
3 crucible
3 greaves
1 platinum angel
1 karn

3 fabricate (intuition a.s.a.p.)
1 mystical tutor
1 tinker
4 FOW
3 counterspell
4 thirst for knowledge
3 serum visions
1 memory jar/wheel of fortune (still undecided)
3 lava dart

sb - 4 rack and ruin
3 arcane labratory
2 tormod's crypt (ps - any insight on crypt vs phyrexian furnace?)
2 eon hub

so, I've 3 spaces left in the board, and I'm looking to gear in some enchantment hate.  So far, I'm thinking -1 great furnace +1 gemstone mine main, and then 3 disenchant in the board.  thoughts?

[Anusien]

Engineered Explosives provides some enchantment hate, and for you can be geared to x=2 for oath, ground seal, animate dead or Samurai of the Pale Curtai, or for 1 for opposing welders and some weenies (Lavamancer), Seal of Fire and other troublesome cards.  I've put it in as an oh shit one of in other slaver builds.

[Aykay]

thanks, the explosives have been working great!


Here's another problem I've been having - smokestack.   Right now I have eon hubs and Rack and ruin for the stax matchup, but sometimes it's still not enough sometimes.  The dilemma I've been confronted with all too often is -

1) - Do I accelerate my own game so that tangle wires and smokestacks don't completely rape my mid and late game

2) - Do I try to control my opponent's board - which I really haven't been consistently successful with enough to be comfortable with.

*shrug*

Basically, I need some matchup advice against stax.

[crazynlazy]

current main -
5 mountain
5 island
2 ancient tomb
2 gemstone mine
2 seat of the synod
2 great furnace
1 mana vault
1 sol ring
3 gilded lotus

4 welder
2 slaver
3 crucible
3 greaves
1 platinum angel
1 karn

3 fabricate (intuition a.s.a.p.)
1 mystical tutor
1 tinker
4 FOW
3 counterspell
4 thirst for knowledge
3 serum visions
1 memory jar/wheel of fortune (still undecided)
3 lava dart

sb - 4 rack and ruin
3 arcane labratory
2 tormod's crypt (ps - any insight on crypt vs phyrexian furnace?)
2 eon hub

first off take out serum visions brainstorm is much better so:
-3serum visions +3 brainstorm.
Next, you don't need memory jar or wheel so I would take that out for another brainstorm(or AK's but if you run AK's you should run four so you would take out brainstorms)
greaves are completely terrible too so: -3 greaves +1 counterspell/drain +1 sundering titan +1 yawgmoth's will
-1karn +1duress
-2 lava dart +2 duress
-5 mountains -1 ancient tomb + 3 volcanic island +3 underground sea
-1 ancient tomb -2 seat -2 great furnace + 1island +4fetches
-2 gemstone mines +2 blue and black mox(proxies)
-1mana vault +1crypt -3 gilded lotus +1 black lotus (proxy) +2 darksteel citadel
-1 lava dart -1slaver +1 timewalk +1 ancestral (proxy)

this build is a good five proxy build with black that is not extremely expensive you may have to sub out islands for seats if you can't find enough welder targets.

[Aykay]

^thanks for the suggestions, but I'm not really focusing on a 5-proxy build at the moment.

However, the inclusion of black in this deck has been something I've been pondering for a while, and I recently picked up a demonic tutor and some engineered explosives for $5 (pair), so I figured why not.  It does seem that Demonic, Will, and maybe some duress would make a nice addition.  Obviously, I've got to make some maindeck modifications though.  So here's my basic core of the deck.

combo/kill
4 welder
2 slaver

drawing/tutoring
4x Thirst for Knowledge
3x Serum Visions/Brainstorm (to be honest, it really seems to be a matter of situation and preference.)
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Tinker
3x intuition

counters/utitily
1x platinum angel
1x Triskelion
1x memory jar
3x Crucible of Worlds
1x Yawgmoth's Will
4x Force of Will
4x Counterspell

mana base
1 sol ring
1 mana vault
1 strip mine
1 boseiju
2 seat of the synod
2 great furnace
3 gilded lotus

this is a base of 45 cards as is.  There's still room for Duress, but probably at the cost of lightning greaves, which have been great for me in the past. (in combination with welder or angel).  Another problem I face with the inclusion of black is the mana base.  Other than Gemstone Mines or Gilded Lotus mana, a lone swamp isn't going to cut it.

One idea I've had was Mana cylix.  So far, it's tested fairly consistenly.  The great part is that it not only expands the usefulness of gilded lotuses, but in general it does a great job of protecting me against those painful situations where I can't get any red mana for a welder (or for example I could win with a yawg's will but I don't have any black mana available.)

Right now the deck I'm testing is something like this

5 island
3 mountain
1 swamp
2 seat of the synod
2 great furnace
1 ancient tomb
2 gemstone mine
1 boseiju, who shelters all
1 strip mine
1 sol ring
1 mana vault
3 gilded lotus

4 goblin welder, 2 mindslaver, 3 crucible of worlds, 1 platinum angel, 1 triskelion,

4 TFK, 3 Serum Visions, 1 Tinker, 1 Mystical Tutor, 1 Demonic Tutor, 1 Yawgmoth's Will,
3 Intuition, 4 force of will, 4 counterspell, 1 memory jar,
3 mana cylix/duress/lightning greaves

[crazynlazy]

about the whole serum visions vs brainstorm thing brainstorm is useful in more situations you'll find that when you're playing control the other player will wait to play their bombs when you have less cards in hand if your card is serum visions you will have a much less chance of getting a counter than with brainstorm, which is why brainstorm > serum visions.

[Aykay]

that's true, but here's one of the reasons I advocate serum visions :
-it gets rid of the dead draws I don't want completely, instead of delaying them.  IE I have a solid mana base out.  I Play serum visions, draw my card, and see two lands coming up that I don't need.  Bottom of the library.  When you play it right before a TFK, it's practically an insurance policy.   I tested just as much with brainstorm, and I just personally found serum visions more useful. go figure.