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Author Topic: Soul Foundry and Morph  (Read 2522 times)
Nefarias
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« on: April 06, 2005, 10:07:41 am »

Okay, here's another question that would only come up in Type 4, but all the rules involved still apply to regular Magic. The two cards in question:

Soul Foundry
Imprint — When Soul Foundry comes into play, you may remove a creature card in your hand from the game. (The removed card is imprinted on this artifact.)
X, T: Put a creature token into play that’s a copy of the imprinted creature card. X is the converted mana cost of that card.

and

Mischievous Quanar
Creature -- Beast
3UU: Turn Mischievous Quanar face down.
Morph 1UU (You may play this face down as a 2/2 creature for 3. Turn it face up any time for its morph cost.)
When Mischievous Quanar is turned face up, copy target instant or sorcery spell. You may choose new targets for that copy. (could also be Wall of Deceit).

So, if I Imprint Mischeivous Quanar onto Soul Foundry, can I get the desired effect out of the Quanar? That is, can I turn it face down, and unmorph it, etc.?
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« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2005, 10:40:06 am »

Quote from: TheWalkingSponge
Okay, here's another question that would only come up in Type 4, but all the rules involved still apply to regular Magic. The two cards in question:

Soul Foundry
Imprint — When Soul Foundry comes into play, you may remove a creature card in your hand from the game. (The removed card is imprinted on this artifact.)
X, T: Put a creature token into play that’s a copy of the imprinted creature card. X is the converted mana cost of that card.

and

Mischievous Quanar
Creature -- Beast
3UU: Turn Mischievous Quanar face down.
Morph 1UU (You may play this face down as a 2/2 creature for 3. Turn it face up any time for its morph cost.)
When Mischievous Quanar is turned face up, copy target instant or sorcery spell. You may choose new targets for that copy. (could also be Wall of Deceit).

So, if I Imprint Mischeivous Quanar onto Soul Foundry, can I get the desired effect out of the Quanar? That is, can I turn it face down, and unmorph it, etc.?


Ok, here's how I understand it... the definition in the glossary for Morph says,
Quote
Morph is a static ability that functions any time you could play the card it's on, and the morph effect works any time the card is face down.
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2005, 11:45:11 am »

The copy will have a morph cost, so yeah you can unmorph it.
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« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2005, 01:35:35 am »

Are the Mischievious Quanar Tokens considered "Cards" as per the rule cited?

Can Tokens be Cards?
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« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2005, 10:10:29 am »

Quote from: LotusHead
Are the Mischievious Quanar Tokens considered "Cards" as per the rule cited?

Can Tokens be Cards?


The cited section of the CompRules is a bit misleading actually.  What that refers to generally is the playing of a card with Morph and the function of that card when it is in play.  If you read the actual rules (and not the glossary), you will see that it does work:

502.26d Any time you could play an instant, you may turn a face-down permanent you control face up. To do this, show all players what the permanent’s morph cost will be when the effect ends, pay that cost, then turn the permanent face up. The morph effect on it ends, and it regains its normal characteristics. Any abilities relating to the permanent coming into play don’t trigger when it’s turned face up and don’t have any effect, because the permanent has already come into play.

Turning a permanent (which doesn't have to be a card) face up simply requires showing the cost and paying the cost.

The rule isn't quite so technical as to mean "card", as it simply says permanent.  I think the rules team recognized that you could, based on other existing cards, generate a token that was a copy of a card (both being permanents) and the rules had to recognize that it would have morph and should be able to do the same thing.

So, yes, it works just fine.
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Nefarias
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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2005, 12:41:41 pm »

Okay, I have another question about morph and Type 4. Not that ANYONE would ever want to do this outside of Type 4, but say I have a Morph in hand and a Fist of Suns in play. Can I pay WUBRG to play the Morph face-down?
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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2005, 12:58:22 pm »

No.

The reason being, both Morph and Fist of Suns allows spells to be played in alternate ways.  When you play a spell, you choose which way you'd like to play the spell (409.2b).  You can only choose one of the options, not both.  So, when you play your Mischieveous Quanar with a Fist of Suns in play, you can:

1.)  Play it face-up for its normal mana cost.
2.)  Play it face-up using Fist of Suns ability to pay {W}{U}{B}{R}{G}.
3.)  Play it face-down as a Morph.

Once you've picked the option, you play the spell that way.

This is basically the same situation with Morph and Aluren; you cannot use Morph in order to then play the face-down creature for free via Aluren.  Only one affect can apply.
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