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Lunar
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« on: July 14, 2005, 01:38:44 pm » |
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I noticed that the 9th edition Goblin King is now a goblin lord, rather than just lord ( www.magicthegathering.com) Has this already been changed, or does it not become legal errata until 9th is legal??? |
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epeeguy
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« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2005, 01:52:39 pm » |
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I noticed that the 9th edition Goblin King is now a goblin lord, rather than just lord ( www.magicthegathering.com) Has this already been changed, or does it not become legal errata until 9th is legal??? The word has not, most likely, been updated. Generally, the Oracle is only updated when a new set is released to match any kind of rules changes that are contained or caused by the new set. So, Goblin King should still read as it currently does (Creature - Lord), and will not change until 9th Edition is (o)fficial released. |
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BurningIce
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« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2005, 02:24:33 pm » |
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I wonder if they will similarly change the other Lords to include their creature type when 9th comes out. Like Lord of Atlantis, or Elvish Champion or whatever.
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Lunar
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« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2005, 02:43:05 pm » |
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Rumors I have heard are saying that EVERYTHING will have a real creature type...
like I have heard Karn will now be a legendary artifact creature - golem, rather than just artifact legend.
Just rumors of course, seems logical if they change goblin king from lord to goblin lord they would do the same for the other lords....
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Dozer - "TMD is not a place where everyone can just post what was revealed to them in their latest wet dream"
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Matt
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« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2005, 04:26:49 pm » |
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Karn is already a Legendary Artifact Creature -- Golem.
They've said they will only be updating creatures that actually appear in 9th edition. Kobold Overlord will have to remain a Creature -- Lord and not Creature -- Kobold Lord. Lord of Atlantis will likewise have to sit this one out if they don't reverse their anti-merfolk bias.
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Lunar
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« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2005, 05:25:00 pm » |
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youre right on the karn thing...I was just looking at the card...hadnt seen he was officially a golem now...but what I was refering to was that it was going to be more wide spread in the near future...I looked this one up first...spirit of the night is currently just a legend...the RUMOR I have heard was that this would be changed to be actually more than just legend. This is completely un reasearched by me, just what i was told...
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Dozer - "TMD is not a place where everyone can just post what was revealed to them in their latest wet dream"
Webster - "most of the deck is pimped, like my insane shirt, which exudes a level of pimpness only to be expressed as sublime."
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Komatteru
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« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2005, 05:35:37 pm » |
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youre right on the karn thing...I was just looking at the card...hadnt seen he was officially a golem now...but what I was refering to was that it was going to be more wide spread in the near future...I looked this one up first...spirit of the night is currently just a legend...the RUMOR I have heard was that this would be changed to be actually more than just legend. This is completely un reasearched by me, just what i was told...
I believe around the release of Champions of Kamigawa, when the creature type "Legend" was replaced with the Legendary supertype, WotC released information that they had no plans to go back and add creature types to all the old Legends. I doubt they have plans to do so now either. Spritit of the Night, for example, has no creature type. This means there is no way to hose it over with 5 copies of Engineered Plague.  Old cards that have "counts as a ____" were changed to have that creature type in their card type line. For instance, Radiant, Archangel has card type "Legendary Creature - Angel" and the bit in her text box about "counts as an Angel" has been deleted. Newer legends such as Reya Dawnbringer (whenever they started printing creatures with more than one type) have simply had their creature type "Legend" deleted. |
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Lunar
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« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2005, 06:12:58 pm » |
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so since my magic history sucks when was karns creature type added???
Karn doesnt have one of those "counts as a _____" things in the text box, and his type is just legendary artifact creature...yet his errata has him at creature type - golem
How is he different than say the aformentioned spirit of the night...spirit of the night would become legendary creature - spirit. I like using SotN since spirit is a somewhat slightly (but not really) relevant creature type right now.
Was the errata on karn applied immediatly upon his release? or was it added later (since it doesnt say he is creature type golem anywhere on the card)
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Dozer - "TMD is not a place where everyone can just post what was revealed to them in their latest wet dream"
Webster - "most of the deck is pimped, like my insane shirt, which exudes a level of pimpness only to be expressed as sublime."
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Webster
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« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2005, 08:18:04 pm » |
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Current oracle card texts can be found here: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Web |
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Lunar
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« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2005, 08:46:33 pm » |
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thanks david...didnt answer my sub-question at all though. We already covered the goblin king errata issue.
when was karn changed? and why did karn get the errata but not something like spirit??? Im really just curious at this point and was hoping somebody knew off hand...
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Dozer - "TMD is not a place where everyone can just post what was revealed to them in their latest wet dream"
Webster - "most of the deck is pimped, like my insane shirt, which exudes a level of pimpness only to be expressed as sublime."
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epeeguy
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« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2005, 08:03:25 am » |
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when was karn changed? and why did karn get the errata but not something like spirit??? Im really just curious at this point and was hoping somebody knew off hand...
Karn was possibly changed either when Champions or Betrayers was released. I only know this because the Oracle I have in my Palm is from when Betrayers was released, and it clearly shows that Karn is a "Legendary Creature - Golem". As far as why Karn was errated and not Spirit of the Night, I have no clue. Were I to hazard a guess, I would probably guess that it was because Karn was still in Extended and they decided to update the Oracle as it was possible to play him in DCI events at the time. Since Spirit is Legacy/Vintage, they may have felt it unnecessary to change it at that time. Especially as it seems as if they are really trying to clean up the amount of creature types they have (for example, Nekrataal will no longer be a creature type with 9th) and perhaps held off on giving Spirit a creature type that may be soon obsolete. Karn, being a Golem, was perhaps an easy one to do. But, in all fairness, they did indicate at the time when the Legend rule was changed (and all Legends became Legendary Creatures) that a lot of the older Legends would not be given creature types and would simply be Legendary Creatures. Perhaps, in time, that will change though. |
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« Last Edit: July 19, 2005, 08:05:11 am by epeeguy »
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Matt
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« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2005, 11:04:16 am » |
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For a long time karn was an Artifact Creature -- Golem Legend. He got the golem status long before CHK.
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epeeguy
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« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2005, 10:15:36 am » |
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For a long time karn was an Artifact Creature -- Golem Legend. He got the golem status long before CHK.
That makes sense then. If he was given the Golem creature type long before the change in the Legend rules, then that would explain the presence of that subtype, which had nothing to do with the change in the Legend rule at all. Thanks for that bit of trivia. |
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Level 2 Judge
It's the wood that should fear your hand, not the other way around. No wonder you can't do it, you acquiesce to defeat before you even begin. - Pai Mei
(Retired Poster)
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asmoranomardicodais
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« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2005, 10:33:57 am » |
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When they started doing the Creature--Dude thing instead of Summon Dude, They went back and gave all the old artifact creatures that were clearly golems a golem creature type. That's why Karn is a golem, as well as Basalt Golem, and others.
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Lunar
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« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2005, 04:08:24 pm » |
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so was that ONLY for golems then?
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Webster - "most of the deck is pimped, like my insane shirt, which exudes a level of pimpness only to be expressed as sublime."
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Matt
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« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2005, 05:01:40 pm » |
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I'm pretty sure there was something else but for the life of me I can't think of what it was.
I know they made Yotian Soldier into Artifact Creature -- Soldier for Mirrodin, and I know Longbow Archer hasn't been an Archer since sixth edition. But neither of those are really the same kind of thing as the Golems.
EDIT: It was Golems and Gnomes. Ersatz Gnomes is now Artifact Creature -- Gnome.
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Ephraim
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« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2005, 09:07:02 am » |
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That seems like it may have been part of a resolution under a "new" naming rule. Previously, a creature could have a word in its name that was associated with a creature type, but not have that creature type. They no longer do that, however. If a creature has "soldier" or "golem" in its name, then it must have that creature type.
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Godder
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« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2005, 01:17:59 am » |
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I wonder if they will similarly change the other Lords to include their creature type when 9th comes out. Like Lord of Atlantis, or Elvish Champion or whatever. According to wizards.com, yes. They even mentioned Lord of Atlantis as a card that wouldn't be getting the treatment because it won't be in Ninth Edition. |
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That's what I like about you, Laura - you're always willing to put my neck on the line. |
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Lunar
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« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2005, 02:04:57 pm » |
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I still dont get why only certain cards get preferential treatment...if golem or soldier or gnome in the name makes that creature that creature type...ie karn silver GOLEM...is now creature type golem...why dont they do this for ALL, why did only certain types get this action...youd think spirits of old would get similar treatment...spirit of the night...thunder spirit etc etc etc...
It would be cool if a wizards employee could comment on why only some get changed and not others.
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Dozer - "TMD is not a place where everyone can just post what was revealed to them in their latest wet dream"
Webster - "most of the deck is pimped, like my insane shirt, which exudes a level of pimpness only to be expressed as sublime."
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Komatteru
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« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2005, 02:09:28 pm » |
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I still dont get why only certain cards get preferential treatment...if golem or soldier or gnome in the name makes that creature that creature type...ie karn silver GOLEM...is now creature type golem...why dont they do this for ALL, why did only certain types get this action...youd think spirits of old would get similar treatment...spirit of the night...thunder spirit etc etc etc...
It would be cool if a wizards employee could comment on why only some get changed and not others.
The Joblins have a big conspiracy going. At least one of the members of R&D is a goblin. You should have been able to realize this in Onslaught block, based on the sheer ridiculousness of Piledriver. It's also not an accident that Joblin Warchief was way better than any of the other cards in the "speaker" cycle (or w/e it's called). Btw, Thunder Spirit has always been a Spirit. EDIT: OH MAN! I left out the best part of the "At least..." sentence. Terrible. |
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« Last Edit: July 22, 2005, 08:40:51 pm by JDizzle »
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Revvik
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« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2005, 04:20:29 pm » |
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So what is this 'WotC Hates Merfolk' deal? I've never heard of this.
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Matt
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« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2005, 07:19:46 pm » |
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I still dont get why only certain cards get preferential treatment...if golem or soldier or gnome in the name makes that creature that creature type...ie karn silver GOLEM...is now creature type golem...why dont they do this for ALL, why did only certain types get this action...youd think spirits of old would get similar treatment...spirit of the night...thunder spirit etc etc etc...
It would be cool if a wizards employee could comment on why only some get changed and not others. The actual reason is that their policy is merely an update on an older, sensible policy. Previously they were against all errata except where it clarified what the card did (updating pre-sixth edition cards, and stuff like Grip of Chaos or Impulse which were printing errors). Their new policy comes from the realization that when a new version gets printed, that version supercedes all previous ones, so if they want to reprint old cards then they're freer to errata them. If, in a tournament, you play a Goblin King, people can go find the most recent Goblin King and it will be as the Oracle says it is. Now suppose they errata'd Lord of Atlantis without reprinting it. Now there would not exist a correctly-printed Lord anywhere in the world. You would be totally unable to settle arguments by pointing to a physical card. That's a huge problem. The problem is common to many cards that have recieved "power level" errata. For example, check out my tournament report in which someone used Bribery to steal my Peregrine Drake. No one realized that his lands wouldn't untap, because that's not what the card says. This shit catches people ALL the damn time. |
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« Last Edit: July 22, 2005, 07:27:02 pm by Matt »
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Godder
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« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2005, 07:21:35 pm » |
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So what is this 'WotC Hates Merfolk' deal? I've never heard of this. This is a while back, but it was mentioned in one of Maro's columns (I think) that merfolk didn't really make sense, so they weren't printing any more. Among other things, they created Cephalid Looter to replace Merfolk Looter, and they stopped printing Lord of Atlantis. |
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« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2005, 04:43:14 am » |
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It's confirmed as of today. Goblin King is now a Goblin Lord. The other Lords that appear in Ninth recieved the same errata (Elvish Champion). The lords that weren't reprinted (for some time now) like Lord of Atlantis and Zombie Master, were not reworded and are still just Lords.
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dandan
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« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2005, 07:12:10 am » |
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I wonder if they will similarly change the other Lords to include their creature type when 9th comes out. Like Lord of Atlantis, or Elvish Champion or whatever. According to wizards.com, yes. They even mentioned Lord of Atlantis as a card that wouldn't be getting the treatment because it won't be in Ninth Edition. Of course not being in 9th is not a reason NOT to change it, it is merely a lack of reason to do it. If they wanted to, they could have sorted poor old Lord of Atlantis (he doesn't even have the abbreviation to himself) and any other stragglers (the mess that is Kobolds springs to mind). |
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