[Article] SCG Daily - Everyone loves a list!

[Vegeta2711]

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/10206.html

  Feel free to take guesses on the next 7.

[Jacob Orlove]

Does it count as a guess if I say Yawgmoth's Will as #1?

[JuJu]

Will, Desire and Drain are all in the top 7. So, guess the remaining 4.

On Topic: Nice Article. Our discussion on IRC seemed to prove your point that yes Gifts deserves to be on that list because as you said, you can use it multiple times to do whatever you want with it. As a 1-of, this would hardly be played.

[Matt]

Will, Desire, Drain.
Trinisphere.
Bargain, Necro.

...Lotus?

[Moxlotus]

Will, Desire, Drain.
Trinisphere.
Bargain, Necro.

...Lotus?

I bet the 7th card is Ancestral Recall.

[Matt]

Ancestral causes a "one sided rout" if it resolves?

[Komatteru]

Black Lotus should be in there.  That card turns too many games into one-sided routes.  Man, I love it.

[Rico Suave]

Ancestral causes a "one sided rout" if it resolves?

I've always been under the impression that in a game, the first person to resolve Ancestral Recall is the winner.  A first turn Ancestral is 1 mana, for basically 50% more resources.  The only (common) cards I hate worse on the first turn are Black Lotus and Tinker.

[Marton]

I'll give it a shot.

1- yawgmoth's will
2- yawgmoth's bargain
3- trinisphere
4- tinker
5- mana drain
6- necropotence
7- JD's desire

Then the 'not too sure where those fits in' category: black lotus, ancestral recall, memory jar (seriously, one sided draw-8 is retarded, en thought it probably doesn't competes with the others)

Things got really fuzzy for the 2 last. I put mana drain higher than necropotence because it requires no resources to play it, and is not 'conditional' as necropotence can be (requires a dark ritual to realistically play it). Then again I am split on JD's desire/recall. Tough call.

[Ivantheterrible]

I've always been under the impression that in a game, the first person to resolve Ancestral Recall is the winner.  A first turn Ancestral is 1 mana, for basically 50% more resources.  The only (common) cards I hate worse on the first turn are Black Lotus and Tinker.

Helluva a lot less true then it used to be however. A lot of people no longer counter ancestral unless they have ass loads of counters now thats not something that used to happen.

[Methuselahn]

Goblin Piledriver, Goblin Lackey, Goblin Warchief, Goblin Sharpshooter, Siege Gang Commander, Gempalm Incinerator, Food Chain.   

Nice work Josh!

[forests failed you]

Black Lotus has to be on this list!  I am now 29 consecutive wins when I played it on turn 1.  (and I play Mana Drain decks, not even combo...).

[jshields]

Its been ages since I last posted here, but I have been reading articles and decklists regularly on this site, which are decent (outside of the flaming over the random person who may have a suboptimal/different play concept).  I enjoyed reading the article and think there is definitely a good start to the Ba-Ro-Ken game routers.  If I were to choose anything, I would go as far as to consider backup cards in this list too.  My list would be:


7.  Duress - This is actually can stop the opponent from dealing with your major threats like wishes, will, and quick win conditions
6.  Force of Will - Why not?  This too seems to be a decent protection spell that is actually interesting to start a counter war over late game and allows you to protect a needed spell combo like tinker / colossus or yawgmoth's will to win the game.
5. Mind's Desire - same as everyone else
4. Recoup - the undiscovered bomb that recently has made gifts ungiven sickening is one of the best cards I have recently seen in combo decks.  Not only does this make tinker castable again, but it can allow you do reuse a countered yawgmoth's will or even grab a much needed duress to set your win condition up
3.  Mana Drain - No Brainer extra mana card
2.  Black Lotus - your favorite flavor of mana
1.  Ancestral - same opinion as everyone else

[Ivantheterrible]

7.  Duress - This is actually can stop the opponent from dealing with your major threats like wishes, will, and quick win conditions
6.  Force of Will - Why not?  This too seems to be a decent protection spell that is actually interesting to start a counter war over late game and allows you to protect a needed spell combo like tinker / colossus or yawgmoth's will to win the game.
5. Mind's Desire - same as everyone else
4. Recoup - the undiscovered bomb that recently has made gifts ungiven sickening is one of the best cards I have recently seen in combo decks.  Not only does this make tinker castable again, but it can allow you do reuse a countered yawgmoth's will or even grab a much needed duress to set your win condition up
3.  Mana Drain - No Brainer extra mana card
2.  Black Lotus - your favorite flavor of mana
1.  Ancestral - same opinion as everyone else

Wow. Thats quite impresive Jshields you somehow managaed to leave Yag WIll out. The point was supposed to be cards that are one sided by themselves. Now its true that will needs mana to be broken and cards in your yard but its less specific then recoup.

Force of Will and Duress are not one sided cards and they never will be. If the game goes one way after one of them resolves then thats generally the fault of the other person becuase almost noone keeps an opener with only one form of gas unless its very well disguised and even then your opponet has to misplay in order for you to win. So normally people arn't going to keep hands that will make force of will and duress cause one sided games.

As i mentinoned previosly ancestral wins games a hell of a lot less then it used to whereas lotus wins games a hell of a lot more. People constantly forget theres a differnece between best card in the game and most broken, and ancestral aint the later (most people no longer consider it the former either but whatever.)

Finally i really wish people would lay off on mana drain. I dont know if all this talk would have any chance of making wizards restrict it but it certainly wont help them ignore it. Is it to powerfull. Yes. Is it nessacary. Yes. Its a nessacary evil because without it control would be to weak. Its only options would be mono u and maybe some really under welhming slaver or tog or something.

[forests failed you]

Wizards does not restrict cards (Mana Drain) because random unknowns from the themanadrain.com whine about how good it is.  They only restrict cards when Steve tells them to.