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Ephraim
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« on: May 21, 2005, 07:50:16 pm » |
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Asthma   Enchant Creature If enchanted creature would untap, instead it doesn't untap unless its controller pays  . *** It's a Dehydration variant. It has a built in way of dodging it, but I've given it a relatively high mana cost because it doesn't only affect untaps that would occur during an untap step. Even if you have some other way of untapping the creature, you have to pay for it. |
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Ephraim
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« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2005, 07:50:29 pm » |
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Current Wording:
Asthma
{2}{U}
Enchant Creature
Asthma comes into play with a suffocation counter on it.
Enchanted creature can't untap as long as Asthma has a suffocation counter on it.
{3}: Remove a suffocation counter from Asthma. Any player may play this ability.
Whenever enchanted creature untaps, put a suffocation counter on Asthma.
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« Last Edit: October 17, 2005, 12:01:35 am by Ephraim »
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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MrZuccinniHead
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« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2005, 01:03:25 am » |
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nice card for limited. Blue needs it's Thirst-like card.
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Scopeless on mIRC I'd like to imprint My Cock on that. If she handles it right, it makes white mana. |
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Jacob Orlove
Official Time Traveller of TMD
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2005, 07:50:58 am » |
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This is actually a rules nightmare, because players aren't supposed to get priority in the untap step.
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Team Meandeck: O Lord,
Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile.
To those who slander me, let me give no heed.
May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
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Matt
Post like a butterfly, Mod like a bee.
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King of the Jews!
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« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2005, 12:41:24 pm » |
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Actually I recently looked into this and I believe that when a card asks for a mana payment you can play mana abilities without having priority.
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http://www.goodgamery.com/pmo/c025.GIF---------------------- SpenceForHire2k7: Its unessisary SpenceForHire2k7: only spelled right SpenceForHire2k7: <= world english teach evar ---------------------- noitcelfeRmaeT {Team Hindsight}
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Jacob Orlove
Official Time Traveller of TMD
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When am I?
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« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2005, 01:13:17 pm » |
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Yeah, but that means that you can have crazy stuff happen during the untap, with no possible response from either player (Orchard tokens, painland damage, etc.) It's something I'd like to avoid, if possible.
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Team Meandeck: O Lord,
Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile.
To those who slander me, let me give no heed.
May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
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Ephraim
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« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2005, 08:18:44 pm » |
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Go ahead and close this card. I don't think there's any elegant way to work around this idea without making waves during the untap step.
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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asmoranomardicodais
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« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2005, 09:51:12 pm » |
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Why not make the card:
Asthma
2U
Enchant Creature
At the beginning of each upkeep, enchanted creature's controller may pay 3. If they do not, tap enchanted creature.
Or:
Asthma
2U
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature does not untap as normal during the untap phase.
At any other time, if enchanted creature would untap, enchanted creature's controller may pay 3. If they do not, tap enchanted creature
Both wording's work, although the second I'll grant isn't nearly as elegant as your original wording. Still, either would still make it an understandable card.
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Ephraim
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« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2005, 09:56:08 pm » |
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Neither wording does quite what I wanted the original card to do. The first wording doesn't prevent untapping at any time, except for the untap step — and technically not even then. The creature untaps and then becomes tapped again during the upkeep step if the fee isn't paid. The second wording doesn't allow the creature to untap as normal at all. If any wording would work, it would be this confusing wording: If enchanted creature would untap, instead it doesn't untap unless its controller pays . Enchanted creature doesn't untap during its controllers untap step. At the beginning of the upkeep of enchanted creature's controller, untap enchanted creature. If I am correct, the ability that untaps the creature at the beginning of the upkeep step is still subject to the payment of , but that's certainly not obvious. In any case, this wording is rather obviously just a hack job designed to get around incurring a payment during the untap step. |
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Ephraim
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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2005, 12:16:48 am » |
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By Jove, I think I have it! It's complicated and it isn't exactly how I wanted this to work, but I think it does the trick rather nicely. Unlike the previous suggestion, this doesn't have two abilities that appear to contradict one another. Asthma comes into play with a suffocation counter on it. Enchanted creature can't untap as long as Asthma has a suffocation counter on it. : Remove a suffocation counter from Asthma. Whenever enchanted creature untaps, put a suffocation counter on Asthma. It's a lot of abilities because the function I'm aiming for requires a lot of bookkeeping. Nonetheless, I'd like to proceed with this card. The complexity is interesting, because unlike just about every other Thirst variant out there, this doesn't let you use alternate methods of untapping the creature. Your only recourse is to pay the mana. |
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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The Atog Lord
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« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2005, 12:32:13 am » |
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How about this:
Enchanted creature does not untap during its controller's untap step.
If enchanted creature would untap, its controller may pay 3; if he or she does, untap enchanted creature.
At the beginning of enchanted creature's controller's upkeep, untap enchanted creature.
So, less bookeeping. The card's replacement ability will let the controller, essentially, pay 3 to untap the creature during his upkeep, avoiding counters and rules nightmares.
Yes, the replacement ability replaces the card's own untap triggered ability.
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The Academy: If I'm not dead, I have a Dragonlord Dromoka coming in 4 turns
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Ephraim
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« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2005, 12:40:47 am » |
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If enchanted creature would untap, instead it doesn't untap unless its controller pays . Enchanted creature doesn't untap during its controllers untap step. At the beginning of the upkeep of enchanted creature's controller, untap enchanted creature. If I am correct, the ability that untaps the creature at the beginning of the upkeep step is still subject to the payment of , but that's certainly not obvious. In any case, this wording is rather obviously just a hack job designed to get around incurring a payment during the untap step. That's exactly the ability I scrapped because it's nonintuitive that the replacement effect also replaces the effect that allows the card to untap at the beginning of the upkeep. It does occur to me now, though that the ability that allows the removal of a suffocation counter, on the proposed wording, needs to have the text, "Any play may play this ability." |
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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racetraitor
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« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2005, 07:32:24 am » |
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From Paralyze's oracle wording : "Enchanted creature doesn’t untap during its controller’s untap step.
Enchanted creature has “At the beginning of your upkeep, you may pay 4. If you do, untap this creature" The same wording would be appropriate here, no?
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Destroy all dreamers with debt and depression
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Ephraim
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« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2005, 09:33:22 am » |
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No. That doesn't work either. Suppose you cast Vitalize -- that would untap the creature under your proposed wording. The goal I had in mind was to create a creature that simply remains tapped, no matter what, unless you pay to untap it. With the wording I have proposed, if you cast Vitalize and Asthma has a suffocation counter on it, the enchanted creature still doesn't untap.
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Logged
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Ephraim
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« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2005, 12:04:24 am » |
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Mechanically speaking, I'm not really certain where this stands. In some regards, it is worse than Dehydration, since you can still untap as normal every turn, if you are willing to invest the mana. On the other hand, you can't use something like Aphetto Alchemist to get around this. Should it cost the same as Dehydration then or would it be okay at this cost as an uncommon? (It would probably need to be an uncommon anyhow, since it's a rather complicated variant of the archetype.)
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Logged
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Ephraim
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« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2005, 08:36:08 am » |
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24 Hour Clock
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Bram
Adepts
Basic User
Posts: 3203
I've got mushroom clouds in my hands
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« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2005, 04:37:19 am » |
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Closed and added.
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<j_orlove> I am semi-religious
<BR4M> I like that. which half of god do you believe in?
<j_orlove> the half that tells me how to live my life
<j_orlove> but not the half that tells me how others should live theirs
R.I.P. Rudy van Soest a.k.a. MoreFling
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