Celestial Dawn Meets Righteous War

[asmoranomardicodais]

Celestial dawn always had a cool idea, that is, make everything white. It was beaming with flavor. On the other hand, it sucked mechanically, because it never did a whole lot. So, I'm going to create a card with that flavor, but make it do something, like so:

Celestial Awakening
3WW
Enchantment

All black cards in all players hand, graveyards, libraries, and inplay are white instead. All are . All swamps are plains instead of their normal type.
Whenever a white spell or ability would make an player lose life, instead they gain that amount of life.
All white creatures lose fear. If a creature would lose fear in this way, it gains first strike.

This gain life clause is the only one I'm worried about, but I think it should be fine, since it doesn't affect costs, like necropotence's lose life payment.

As well, Here is a black version:

Celestial Denunciation
3BB
Enchantment

All white cards in all players hand, graveyards, libraries, and inplay are black instead. All are . All plains are swamps instead of their normal type.
Whenever a black spell or ability would make a player gain life, instead they lose that amount of life.
All white creatures lose first strike and double strike. If a creature would lose an ability in this way, it gains fear.


Celestial Awakening
2W
Enchantment

All black cards in all players hand, graveyards, libraries, and inplay are white instead. All black mana may be spent as though it was white mana. All swamps are plains instead of their normal type.
Whenever a white spell or ability would make an player lose life, instead they gain that amount of life.
All white creatures lose fear. If a creature would lose fear in this way, it gains first strike.



Celestial Denunciation
2B
Enchantment

All white cards in all players hand, graveyards, libraries, and inplay are black instead. All white mana may be spent as though it were black mana. All plains are swamps instead of their normal type.
Whenever a black spell or ability would make a player gain life, instead they lose that amount of life.
All black creatures lose first strike and double strike. If a creature would lose an ability in this way, it gains fear.

[Jacob Orlove]

You complain about Celestial Dawn being bad, then you make two 5 mana versions that are worse? At leasst Dawn saw some play because it gave color-fixing and turned off Red Blasts.

[asmoranomardicodais]

Well, do you want me to lower the CC, or make a double colored one that does both? What would be the best solution?

[dandan]

Make it cost 1 B/W B/W and make White Black and Black White as every a*****e who has ever lived has claimed God is on his side when he goes off to kill innocents. White Knight / Black Knight? It matters little to those at the wrong end of his sword. Obviously only the first effect makes sense in this context.
 

[asmoranomardicodais]

I'm sorry, dandan,  but I don't understand most of your post. If you want to explain it more fully, I'll be interested.

Otherwise, no talk about this? should I lower their cost? Should I incorporate both onto one card? What?

[dandan]

OK. this card turns Black things White and White things Black. We need a flavour reason to do this. I think we should look at the similarity of the colours and how good and evil are often merely dependant on point of view (the crusades, inquisition, burning 'witches', human sacrifice all for 'good').
What if we made all Black things White and all White things Black with one card? I can't really see any reason why the colour changing can't be on one card.
The life gain/life loss aspect would be very hard to achieve on one card. Drain Life and its ilk would make it rather complicated.
Again, the ability swap would be tricky on one card.

This gives us:

Good Intentions
1 B/W B/W
Enchantment
All Black cards in all players hand, graveyards, libraries, and in play are White. All White cards in all players hand, graveyards, libraries and in play are Black. All  B and W are B/W. All Swamps are Plains and Plains are Swamps.
Was killing me good?

[JAG]

Sadly, while i love the flavor of the card as I was always a sucker for Celestial Dawn myself, the whole "one card" thing really doesn't work that well.  The color changing abilities negate each other, with the end result of all white and black objects being black (you follow instructions in the order they're listed on the card, since time-stamping is useless here and the effects apply in the same layer).  also, according to the Oracle text for Celestial Dawn, the "All  are [W]" thing doesn't work quite right either (apparently changing mana symbols is a no-no).  The way it'd be worded is "Spells and abilities you control produce white mana instead of any other color.  You may spend white mana as though it were mana of any color."  Wordier, yes, but it's what the rules like.

I actually like the two cards thing, but they certainly don't need to be so expensive.  I'm not sure your interpretation of the life-gain/loss thing not affecting Necro's cost is quite correct, however.  That can be easily fixed, so i'd say it's not much of a concern.

"All black cards that aren't in play, black spells, and black permenants are white.  Swamps are plains.  Players may spend white mana as though it were mana of any color.
If a spell or ability would make a player lose life, that player gains that much life instead.
All white creatures with fear gain first strike and lose fear."

"All white cards that aren't in play, white spells, and white permenants are black.  Plains are swamps.  Players may spend black mana as though it were mana of any color.
If a spell or ability would make a player gain life, that player loses that much life instead.
All black creatures with first strike or double strike gain fear and lose first strike and double strike."

sorry, i just don't see a good way of making the cards into one.  The color changing thing doesn't work, and we can't change the mana symbols to split symbols (although that can easily be done via the "black and white mana can be any color" thing). 

-JM

[dandan]

Making a White card Black doesn't make it not White unless you use the word 'instead'. You probably don't need to much around with the mana costs anyway as all Swamps and Plains can make W or B anyway.

The mana cost of any version of such cards should certainly be much lower than 5. I was actually thinking that even at 3 mana my version might be overcosted!

[asmoranomardicodais]

Well, we have at least a consensus that the originals are overcosted, so I will make them 3cc and see if anyone objects. They might even need to be less, since they can only be used effectively in a multicolored deck, and then they aren't even affecting half your deck. Anyway, anyone have a problem with 2 and 2 for the costs?

[Buttons]

What happens if both are in play?  Maybe an additional clause which would help alot of people out:  "If {the white one} is in play, {the black one} cannot come into play."  And vice versa with the black one.  Unless you wanted to make the white one inheriantly stronger.

You could also do a cool thing if BOTH of them are in play, like make everything colorless, and everything loses their abilities.

2W or 2B sounds good. 

[Jacob Orlove]

You'd just use timestamps.

I still don't see why we even need TWO of these, when they each have only a small fraction of the utility that Celestial Dawn offers. The life and ability changing clauses are almost totally irrelevant--if they were something interesting instead, that'd be neat.

[asmoranomardicodais]

If they are irrevelant, then can you give me two things that are relevant? To me, the fun of these cards is too make a B/W casual deck with the black one and healing salve the opponent to death.

[asmoranomardicodais]

Anyone have anything to add to this card? I'm not happy enough with it yet to clockit.

[Matt]

Anyone have anything to add to this card? I'm not happy enough with it yet to clockit.

What luck, I am not happy enough to add them!

These are firstly hideously complicated. I couldn't even be bothered toread them, they were so long! Secondly, they're kind of ugly - "let's just keep tossing on abilities til it seems useful" kind of cards.

[asmoranomardicodais]

I agree Matt, and I want suggestions! anyone?

[Godder]

Normally cards like these would act as hosers. These, however, don't.