U/B Fish?

[g0tenks00]

So I'm working on a new fish variant, and just wanted some thoughts on it's plausibility. I haven't been active in the vintage scene for the past few months, so I don't even know if people already play this deck or if it's not really floating around the meta right now. Here's my version:

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
2 Island
2 Swamp
4 Dark Ritual

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mind Twist
1 Tinker
1 Necropotence

1 Darksteel Colossus
3 Dark Confidant
4 Withered Wretch
4 Plagued Rusalka
4 Phyrexian Negator

4 Duress
4 Force of Will
4 Aether Vial
3 Pithing Needle

Sideboard

4 Darkblast
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Old man of the Sea
2 Chains of Mephistopheles

a few things concern me here:

1) i feel like my card choices are a little bit whack at times. the 4 CotV sitting in the sideboard seems a little off, and I have a feeling either CotV or Null Rod should be in the main.
2) I have a feeling chains of mephistopheles might have a spot in the maindeck. the deck's own draw engine is really dark confidant, which isn't effected by by chains, but chains seems like it would destroy gifts and slaver.
3) I'm not sure if the 4 darkblast in the sideboard is overkill. I already have 4 plagued rusalka in the main to battle welders and gorilla shamen. I also like the withered wretchs in the main, as it helps against welder decks and also gives tog a hard time.
4) i'm debating whether necro has any place in the deck at all.
5) does jitte even belong here? perhaps the jitte's would be better in a more aggro version of fish, i.e. wtf

as an aside, i like the negators because they are such a fast clock if cast off a ritual. i also think tinker/colossus is too good not to throw in, and is added insurance if anything goes awry.

tell me what you think...

[Harlequin]

I think you end up running into a few contradictions in the deck...

-- you should probably not be running Vial because your guys seem to have too diverse of a casting cost.  Null Rod is likely better
-- you have no main deck answers to an opponents tinker
-- you have tinker as an answer, but confidant + tinker + ZERO sorting power = you will loose randomly to rolling a DSC and taking 11 damage.
-- so perhaps you need Sensie's top, or at least brainstorm.
-- But if you add top, then you cant use null rod.

The other contdradiction is more dirrect
-- You want to run Force of Will
-- You want to run awsome black creatures... wich leaves you with 3 AWSOME blue cards (ancestral, Timewalk, and Tinker), that you can pitch to force of will.  Either that or you always need double force


The plauged guy looks interesting.  But I'm only luke warm on him. Probably better as Blue creature of some sort.  Even something like Dimir Cutpurse would be ok.

Lastly you definately need more diverse answers.  You will definately need Diabolic Edict (or chainers Edict if you prefer).  This gives you an answer to DSC and Oath Angles.

[Frank@TO]

You may want to do a search for a decklist named fiends which is alot like this build. It plays no tinker collosus but it does play dark confident and a horde of low drops. If i can find it ill edit this post to link you there :S. Fiends actually splashes white for STP and some play kataki aswell.

[ErkBek]

Why is Sol Ring in this deck? The only thing I forsee it doing is accelerating negators and occasionally helping feed wretches. I'd either cut it for an off color mox or land. I see what you are trying to do with the negators, basically add a clock to the deck, but at a huge cost.

Other notes: 4 dark confidants are needed
Mesmeric fiends can shut off TFK/Welder since they are proactive
Bounce spells are prob your best solution to tinker if it resolves

You may want to do a search for a decklist named fiends which is alot like this build. It plays no tinker collosus but it does play dark confident and a horde of low drops. If i can find it ill edit this post to link you there :S. Fiends actually splashes white for STP and some play kataki aswell.

You may want to do a search for a decklist named fiends which is alot like this build. It plays no tinker collosus but it does play dark confident and a horde of low drops. If i can find it ill edit this post to link you there :S. Fiends actually splashes white for STP and some play kataki aswell.

This build is IMO the best UB fish build to date.
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=25305.0

[zeus-online]

Mind twist sucks...i'd definetly cut it!
Its waaaay too slow, and sucks against decks with heavy countermagic.....is too slow against stax, which tries to deny your resources in the first place, making the casting of said card, difficult.

Wretch's should be enough to keep welders at bay....they also randomly own other strategies/decks...
4th Confidant should definetly be there......

Cant find strip mine on your list...why in the world would you not run strip mine?

Maybe something like this:

Suicidal Fish:
Mana: (25)
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip mine
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
2 Island
2 Swamp
4 Dark Ritual

Brokenness: (4)
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Necropotence

Critters: (12)
1 Darksteel Colossus
4 Dark Confidant
4 Withered wretch
3 Phyrexian Negator

Disruption: (12)
4 Duress
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the void

Which leaves 7 cards...
You need fodder for the FoW's so first thing to add would be 4 brainstorms i think...they help reduce the damage from confidants, digs deep for answers, improves your hand....and is generally a very good thing to have in a deck
A couple of bounce spells might be good aswell, to deal with DSC, random problems....and oath creatures..
I'm thinking 2 bounce spells....Rushing river seems like the best choice....since they can bounce 2 oath critters or 2 annoyances Their cost is unfortunetly a bit high, so if that becomes a problem Echoing truth might be better.

1 card left...as i see it, the options are:
1 Yawgmoth's will - You cant abuse it as other decks can, but replaying a few power cards like ancestral/time walk...a duress and maybe a wasteland should be enough to warrants its inclusion.
1 Crucible of worlds - Mostly just to replay wastelands.....but i dont think its worth adding without demonic tutor/vampiric, to fetch it at the right time, or to fetch strip mine if you already got crucible.
1 Cabal therapy - Feels wrong only to pack 1....should atleast be 2 or 3 i think.

Havent tested any of it...just wrote down my thoughts.

/Zeus

[AmbivalentDuck]

This build is IMO the best UB fish build to date.
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=25305.0

I second that.  Many of the changes discussed in that thread would be pointful in today's meta.  I would *certainly* leave in the rods.  Also, Standstill has gotten "worse," I'd cut one for Demonic Consultation and another for a third Chain of Vapor.  Replace the displaced sideboard Chain with a Mana Crypt.  Your ability to power out fast Energy Fluxes and Null Rods will *often* be decisive.  The sideboard Old Men should instead be either Sword of Fire and Ice, Jitte, or Planar Void, depending on your meta.

In a mostly unpowered meta, Sword R/U will save you repeatedly against Goblins and Fish. In a semi-powered/5 proxy meta Jitte helps against Welders and comes down early enough to deal with Workshop aggro.  In a mostly powered meta, Planar Void is godsend against the "recent" reliance on the graveyard.

[The Chosen One]

I would definitely run stifle maindecked. It acts as mana denial for your opponent and also can also be used to stifle the downside of negator. Just my $.02