Q&A Thread The Second

[Vegeta2711]

I did one of these like 8 months ago and it was sort of fun to do, plus I got a couple of really solid questions. So here we are again, ask a question and odds are I'll edit my answer into your post in a day or two.

Few guidelines:

1) Be Specific!. You can't just rattle off a question like, 'omg teach me how to play fish' or 'wats the best build of Gifts?'. If you ask me, 'What's your opinion on the best win conditions for Stax decks?' then that's something I can get behind.

2) Use the search function before coming here. I'm not answering anything that's been gone over 4 million times before.

3) No Decklist Requests, that's what the search button is also for.

4) No retarded questions.

5) Limited Tier discussion. I do not want this to get sidetracked. I'll gladly give my opinion and why, but I don't want to have a huge argument about it. If you want to have a full debate, we'll make another thread or something.

6) Anything to do with Uba Stax will be watched closely. You need only look at the other threads to see why.

Oh and try not to write a thesis on any one question. I really hate anything that drones on.

 

[Kowal]

How do you feel on storm combo decks featuring most of their tricks on legs for an alternate beatdown plan?  Do you feel they are superior or inferior to traditional storm based combo, and why?  Given their drawbacks and benefits, would you consider such a deck in this or any metagame?

In regards to these man-based combo decks, I'm referring to things like Bomberman (I know, I know, no storm), GWS ManPlan, and whatever else you can think of in that vein (except Tendricide, which is obviously the best deck ever)

I think all the alternate storm combo plans bring a unique view to the table. At the current time I do believe that Dark Confidant bringing a card drawing engine is amazingly helpful. Trinket Mage brings it's own fun to the table by replacing itself with Lotus and providing a 2/2. Normally I'd look down upon beating down, but when you can throw out a Tendrils for 8-12 without too much trouble, even from a depleted hand... it makes beatdown look a helluva lot better. It gives you an actual mid-game option at minimal cost to consistency. It also opens up options like Culling to the weak and stuff. I can't see why it's not better than normal storm combo at the moment.

However, as for playing, I could only see playing such a combo deck in a heavily Drain oriented meta. I simply don't like my odds against Stax with any sort of traditional storm combo, especially since the creatures aren't exactly as useful against Sphere of Resistance and such.

[Evenpence]

With the fragmentation of the metagame, we have seen an upswing in the amount of combo, especially drain-based tendrils combo.

How long do you think the metagame will continue to be fragmented, and what will be the trigger in the consolidation of the metagame?

Also, Smennen has said that Drain-based Tendrils combo is tier 1.5.  It seems that many people (myself included) tend to think that combo is closer to tier 1.  How do you feel on the issue of Drain-based Tendrils combo?

Also, what do you feel is the best build of said combo?  A few people in NJ have been playing a Intution/AK draw engine, which has done very well for them, putting three of four decks in the T8 at a local Time Walk tournament last weekend.  They call it BPS, after it's creator who's name is Blake.  It also has MD Frantic Search, Gush, 2 Rebuilds, and other oddities.

EDIT:
Out of the following versions, which do you think is currently the best?
Drains + Confidants + AK/Intution
Drains + AK/Intution
Drains + Confidants + Gifts
Drains + Gifts
or
Rituals only (Grimlong)
Rituals + Confidants + anything else.
Something Else

I don't really think the metagame is fragmented. If you think in deck terms, sure, it's indeed fragmented and everything is different everywhere. You can safely blame the power of most Vintage decks for that. As for archtypes, I think we've actually consolidated a deal since before. Just about every viable deck falls under Combo-Control, Prison or straight combo. The decks/metas will continue to stay fragmented until a new cheap uber powerful deck like GAT comes out.

Drain Based Tendrils combo is amazing, but other than Gifts, has put up minimal results at large tourneys. Hence until I see more concrete results and a clearer idea of the 'best' list for those types of decks I think Tier 1.5 is fine.

As for the best builds of of combo, I think the Intuition (No AK) listing some people are using is pretty good. My personal preference however, is Ritual + Confidant + some back-up like Grim Tutor or Intuition. The only true Drain Tendrils deck I've seen work as well as normal storm combo has been Gifts thus far.

[Imsomniac101]

What are your thoughts on Birdshit in the current metagame? The deck hasn't been seen a lot lately except for the last Waterbury. Is it still viable? If it isn't, why not?

It's not really worth playing. I love the deck, but it has a very shaky mana base (Which means it's terrible for any long tourney by default) and a lot of tough mulligan decisions involving Mana vs. Power vs. going down to 6 cards. This being said, the main thing the deck has going for it is the complete lack of removal for it's creatures. Null Rod, FoW and an additional disruption effect can really screw with Gifts and CS long enough to win, they can't just Pyroclasm you out games 2&3. Even Oath isn't terrible because you have Ray of Revelation and STP available.

Stax is pretty terrible though and combo isn't too hot either. Shit the deck straight up dies to early Tinker unless it drew one of it's 2-3 STP.  Hence I wouldn't be playing it unless some major revisions were made to it.

[pyr0ma5ta]

1) What are your thoughts on the latest Ubastax lists?  They now include Tangle Wire and even less things that actually cause the game to end, since now the only ways to win are: 4 Welders, 2 Duplicant, 4 Barbarian Ring.  Is a Karn or Sundering Titan, or something completely different worth playing?  Incidentally, how does 5c (Changstyle) compare?

2) What's the best style of Gifts?  Merchant Scrolls?  How many Gifts?  Flame-Vault or Burning Wish or both?

3) Is slaver really dead?  How come only FFY still plays it?  He still wins power all the time, but is he playing something suboptimal?

4) Why does oath suck total balls?  Tops seem to belong, but Null Rods are a huge beating against Blue decks.  What is the best flavor?

5) How can UB fish not scoop over and over against blue decks?

In order now.
1) I think Uba Stax has some unique merits, but the main issue is the kill still sucks. For me Tangle Wire honestly was a terrible lock piece in the deck (What the fuck is the point? The deck starts to suck after turn 2 anyway) and the kill is still about on par with Stasis. Hell Stasis may be faster at this point, because it can run multiple Vise effects or Flame-Vault. :/

Since you asked, my personal version of Uba Stax runs multiple Juggernaut in the maindeck. This may or may not be optimal, but I'll gladly run them to give myself a clock and an additional set of threats (Turn 1 Chalice + Lock piece and turn 2 Juggernaut is still an effective play) that the opponent has to deal with early in the game. It beats for 5 and costs four, which makes me a happy camper. Karn and Trike would be the 'good' kill conditions within relevant mana restrictions, but Null Rod ruins them. For any build not running Rod however, I would definitely run a pair of both.

5c (Chang style) is far more efficient in dealing with winning the game due to Tinker and multiple tutors. It's better suited to playing a lock game which is only effective in the early to mid-game and simply dropping a bomb to win before worrying about Rebuild, Rushing River, etc. .

2) Take this with a grain of salt, because I really don't play Gifts all that much, nor do I claim to be particularly skilled with the deck. I think the Thirst builds are superior simply because they don't rely so heavily on getting Gifts resolved and have a way to fight other Drain decks without relying on dropping more bombs than the opponent. More than one Merchant Scroll pretty much commits you to an aggressive strategy with the deck, simply because of it's sorcery speed and space constraints (Going in the place of draw cards typically).

I think 2-3 gifts is plenty, again, unless you want to play it like a combo deck.

Not even getting into the Flame Vault vs. Tendrils debate. Both have merits and disadvantages. Make the bleeding vaginas stop crying about it already.

3) Slaver isn't dead. Oh and you missed Shay and REB on your short list of people who play CS still. Slaver 'died', because unlike Gifts you had no extra trump card. You had metagame slots (People aren't good at this, hint hint) and Slaver as the ultimate catch-all card. Guess which is easier: Casting Gifts for a strong pile of cards or tuning your deck into being able to provide you just a specific hoser/answer you'll need in a reasonable time frame. I think it's underplayed, because people simply believe Gifts is better. From a sheer power perspective I'll agree, but I believe the adaptability of Slaver and the playskill leverage it gives you keeps it from simply being sub optimal Gifts.

4) I think I've used that exact term before. How cute. Oath is naturally prone to being inconsistent, because it's reliant on a set of 4 cards. That's just how the deck rolls. Add that you use Forbidden Orchard and suddenly you can throw out your mid-game role. Oath HAS to come down pretty much with Orchard or if the opponent has any significant amount of time or additional pressure, you'll be looking at an early grave. I've won many a game from tokens + welder or confidant beatings.

As for exact Oath questions, I haven't tried some of that stuff extensively, my own build is a bit different anyway. As for the 'best', I'll leave it up to ICBM, GWS and the guy running Muddle to argue their builds to death. All I can say it this: If you run Top (Which is quite solid) you still have access to Choke which is nearly, if not more, brutal than Null Rod itself against blue decks.

5) Duress, Withered Wretch, FoW, Null Rod, Confidant and strips are a good start... damn I named like half a deck off right there.

[The Witch-King]

What card do you think is the best sideboard answer to combo when playing Slaver (UBR)? Labs, just Duress, Chalice maybe? At the moment i settled on using Duress, but i would very much like to hear your opinion.

Thanks in advance.

Duress is probably the 'best' anti-combo weapon you can bring in, seeing as Sphere of Resistance does nowhere near as much damage as it used too. Chalice of the Void is good as well, but ultimately hamstrings CS if you set it @ 1, which is usually better than the 0 setting... it's still a valid option though. The main reason I think Duress has an edge right now though is because of the sheer amount of artifact bounce being played in decks currently. If you expect a heavy combo meta, your best shot would be to team Duress up with Chalice/SoR anyway though. Between Drain, FoW, Duress and some sort of mana denial you can make the combo player's life hell.

If you're not running it maindeck, Platinum Angel is also an option to bring out with an early Tinker. It accomplishes many of the same things the other stall cards do, but it also beats for 4.

A unconventional option I've had some success with it boarding in 2 Tundra and 4 Meddling Mage. It forces slower combo to typically waste a tutor on a bounce spell (Kind of hard to go off around it if you named Will or Tendrils and you have counters), Rebuild and Hurkyll's misses it and it comes down turn 2. YMMV though.

I'm disenchanted with SoR for not being Trinisphere and Arcane Lab for costing three mana, especially when they can just use Xantid to force through a bounce spell anyway.

[Sgt. Pepper]

Some fishy questions:

1) How does UB Fish deal with Darksteel Colossus (and Oath to a lesser extend)? Should it run bounce like Chain of Vapor, Bouncer or echoing Truth? Should it add white for Mage, Swords and perhaps Stromscape Apprentice (perhaps Kataki as well..)? Or should UB Fish just try to Duress/counter the Tinker, hoping it will never actually resolve?

2) Whats a good sideboard plan against if you're playing U/W Fish (lionfish or regular uw fish)? Do you add anti gifts cards (like True Believer) or do you board in against their sideboard plan (BEB against Pyroclasm for example)?

3) Currently, whats the better direction for fish to follow? The beatdown path, or the disruption/"control" path?

4) Is Mishra's Factory still any good? I've seen more and more fish builds opt for a stronger mana base in favor of the Factory's, is this correct, even for a 2c build?

5) What are you're thoughts on Standstill in fish? Lots of people say it sucks, and that Brainstorm is much better, but I still see fish decks do well with 4 Standstills in them..

1) Magus of the Unseen. It's the cheapest and most effective solution you have in the deck. You know, besides Duress or FoW.

2) Since your natural strategy is SUPPOSED to beat them, I'd board in minimally to that effect. Absolute Law, for example, is a nice trick you can pull to nullify Pyroclasm. Another is boarding in 'suprise' cards like Daze, True Believer and Disrupt to annoy and confuse the opponent. Mind you, that's all these cards do, play with the opponent and force him to adapt to a change of plans. If they can do it, the board will mostly be ineffective.

Honestly? I've had the most success with boarding in Orim's Chant and Chalice. It maxes out your cheap disruptive elements and gives you the opportunity to force through Meddling Mage or Tinker -> DSC.

3) Beatdown. I don't know if you mean specfically lion fish, but I'd prefer any deck with actual early game pressure over the ones running lots of tricksy 1/1's.

4) Hate it. The only colorless lands I like are Strips. I constantly want UU or WU by turn 2 and since every land drop is precious to me, I can't afford to see hands like 1 Factory and 1 dual/fetch. This is especially true with the abundance of Stax and Oath now running Wasteland.

5) Brainstorm is amazing and Standstill is meh. If you can run both and it works for you, more power to ya. I never have room for Standstill in my own builds and I prefer Confidant by miles anyway.

[SonataOfTheCathedral]

I know you're an aggro-man, but can you explain why it seems to have such difficulty exceeding in this format? Is it because people are playing Kird Apes and not opting for a more powerful combination like Wild Mongrel and Bazaar Of Baghdad? Or is aggro just too weak to effectively shake things up against a Gifts player?

It takes way more work and you get way less reward (i.e. time your deck is viable) when developing aggro. Here's the main problems with aggro in the format.

1. Aggro can't effectively race control without a rather hefty disruption package or a bad draw on the control players part.
2. Combo crushed you routinely.
3. Wild Mongrel and Bazaar < Mana Drain and Yawgmoth's Will.
4. The 'advanced' aggro decks are not inherently better than the 'inferior' aggro decks, that's a major issue. The ZI/Werebear/Bazaar/LFTL deck 'dawn of the dead' that people have been touting is only amazing against Stax and to a limited extent, unprepared Gifts players. Sounds like Feinstien's old G/R deck to me.
5. Oath. What the fuck. Like aggro didn't have enough BS to deal with.

I could write a book on it, but those are the basic reasons why.