Creature Denial

[dandan]

Chose a direction and go with it. The current version is clearly overpowered as it means you can virtually Wrath every turn, or 'merely' pick off 2/2s if you have a, X/3 (or take out X/4s). Even Pestilence isn't that good.

[SpencerForHire]

All Consuming Illness
{B}{B}
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant target creature.
Enchanted creatures toughness is reduced to 1.
At the beginning of your upkeep, give one of your creatures -2/-2. If you do, target creature gets -2/-2.

I would assume that as a pure black card I don't have to bother adding a contract that the creatures power cannot exceed one.

[Matt]

This seems heedlessly complicated. Couldn't it be, like...

<cost>
Sorcery
Target creature you control and target creature you don't control each get -2/-2 until end of turn.
Buybuck <some cost, mana or sac creatures, whatever>

or epic, or some other keyword. Flashback? Making it an aura adds a lot of text for not a whole of playable gain, as I see it.

[dandan]

I like the current version, especially as it can be used to infect an opponent's creature. It isn't really that complicated.

[SpencerForHire]

It's really only 3 lines in the actual card.  One of which is the enchant target clause.  It seems rather fair and also has the secondary weakness of being destroyed by creature denial from the opponent.

[Matt]

I dunno, it just seems ugly to me. But it's not a big problem if you guys think it's okay.

[SpencerForHire]

I'm really happy I made it an Aura.  Gives it way more vulnerability without decreasing its strength

[Ephraim]

I dislike this card being an aura.  I dislike it intensely.  An aura is supposed to primarily affect the enchanted creature -- or at least the way that it interacts with the rest of the game (like Lure.)  This card is an aura that hardly cares about about the creature to which it's attached.  Since previous editions of this card were protested because having a fatty gave you infinite killing power, I propose this alternative:

All-Consuming Illness
{B}{B}
Enchantment

All creatures' toughness becomes 1.
At the beginning of your upkeep, target creature you control and target creature you don't control each get -1/-1 until end of turn.

How is that different from simply "At the beginning of your upkeep, destroy target creature you control and target creature you don't control?"   It also affects everything else that kills creatures.  It makes all combat math different and turns Pyroclasm into Wrath of God.  It also bypasses regeneration.  I'd say that's a fair effect for a black enchantment that costs {B}{B}.

[SpencerForHire]

Yes but once again we are back to an affect that is overpowered and wins games by itself as it never goes away.

[zeus-online]

The card posted by Ephraim is severely undercosted imo....If wizards ever printed anything like that, i'm pretty sure they would cost it at 7 mana or something....and definetly rare, just to make sure that every limited game didnt come down to that card.

I like the flavor though.

I hate the aura version...this should be an "Abyss-like" effect...i dont know:

3BB
Enchantment
At the beginning of each players upkeep, that player chooses an opponent, that opponent may give target creature -2/-2.

The text is a bit messy though...and the effect can be used as "damage prevention" if the opponent has no weenies left.....i'd say its still an incredibly powerful effect.

/Zeus

[dandan]

How is infecting the enchanted creature with a disease that weakens its toughness to just above the point of death not affecting the enchanted creature?

Sure the caster is using that creature as the carrier of a disease that is far more fatal to others, but so what?

Note that this can be used to enchant a Darksteel Colossus then make that big boy die. Isn't that affecting that creature?

[SpencerForHire]

How is infecting the enchanted creature with a disease that weakens its toughness to just above the point of death not affecting the enchanted creature?

Sure the caster is using that creature as the carrier of a disease that is far more fatal to others, but so what?

Note that this can be used to enchant a Darksteel Colossus then make that big boy die. Isn't that affecting that creature?

My thoughts exactly when I changed the card.  I'm glad it was understood flavor wise.

[Norm4eva]

Humility meets The Abyss?  For BBB?  Really?

[SpencerForHire]

Humility meets The Abyss?  For BBB?  Really?

Humilities strength is its complete neutering of creatures.  Abyss can hit most any creature (anything that CAN be targetted).  This card is way more vulnerable than each and requires triple black.  I could see costing it up to {B} though.

[dandan]

Humility meets The Abyss?  For BBB?  Really?

Darksteel Colossus still beats you for 11 even when infected. All abilities are still turned on. Humility this is not.

The Abyss - typically used in creatureless or non-artifact creatureless decks as a one-sided permanent creature killer. This needs a creature in play to be in play, needs you to affect one of your creatures in order for it to affect one of theirs (technically it could be your creature again) and doesn't necessarily kill their creature. This is not the Abyss.

Seeing as you are searching for an older card that spreads disease and can be used to kill opponents 2 or less toughness creatures, I will reveal the powerhouse that this affect resembles..


Are you ready?



How much does that cost? Yep, 3 mana.

(I'd also say that this is similar in many ways to Attrition, Honden of Infinite Rage and Phyrexian Plaguelord (but without the fat and without the really useful multiple use at instant speed and self-sacrifice abilities))

So this card doesn't actually kill the creature it is enchanting (which may or may not be a good thing, I can certainly imagine you casting this on one of your own creatures - but it certainly isn't a creature killing enchantment until you start affecting your own creatures), only has an effect if you give one of your creatures -2/-2 on your turn before you attack, doesn't kill anything with toughness more than 2 unless you want to lose the Illness too (self-sacrifice, a virtue in a Black card) and doesn't do anything at all on the turn you cast it, nor on your opponent's next turn. In addition, you don't get a choice about giving one of your creatures -2/-2, and even worse, if your opponent doesn't have any creatures (or just one but it is the Ill one) then you have a rather unpleasant choice to make about the target creature that gets -2/-2. Playing with disease is a risky thing, at least for your creatures.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love this in Limited (at {b}{b}{1}, it shouldn't be {b}{b}{b} in my opinion, it's not Necro or Pox!) but it is far from the broken earlier versions of the card