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Author Topic: Why do places have no-sideboard tournaments?  (Read 1593 times)
Hi-Val
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« on: May 04, 2006, 09:33:49 pm »

It kind of pisses me off to see them offered anywhere. I just know that events like that are full of 10-land stompy and block affinity and stuff and it's an abomination to call them Vintage. It does make me want to go to such an event with Dragon or Grimlong and show them why sideboards are a Good Thing though. Yeah, I'm probably done bitching about them now.
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2006, 10:56:59 pm »

I was browsing the SCG Vintage forums recently and I saw a few threads started on these tournaments.
I find it rather silly to hold a Vintage tournament that doesn't use Sideboarding games 2-3. This is the problem with Vintage, Imo, it is considered casual by a lot of players to the point where you can change rules because you feel like having a wacky   tournament over the weekend. I've seen tournaments that enforce a "You can play two lands a turn" rule! Wtf is that?
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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2006, 07:54:38 am »

This is a deck that I was working on for "Fun" play.  I found that it was too dependant on Exploration in my oppening hand.  I have modified it with Ghost Quarter because It is a fantastic replacement for a fetchland.  In a Two land Per turn format....... yeah.... this autmatically STARTS with exploration in play, and it is un-removable.  So this deck would in theory work wonders.

Two-land-per-Turn.Dec
4  Tiaga
1  Island
3  Mountian
3  Forest
4  Ghost Quarter
4  Darksteel Citadel
3  Cephalid Col

Combo 1 - Damage Free Lifestyle
4  Glacial Chasm
3  Life from the loam
4  Crucible

Combo 2 - The win conditions
4  Darksteel Reactor
4  Goblin Welder
4  Core Tapper
4  Dismantle

Enablers -
4  Gamble
1  Crop Rotation
1  Anger
2  Genesis
3  Dredge2 gain 1 life (I have no idea what this guys name is)

It is highly Abusive of the 2 land per turn rule.

Stage 1:  Lock out your opponents ability to win.
Crucible/Life + Glacial Chasm + any land = you cannot take damage and you pay no life.  Extremely Fast to set up. usual comes down like turn 3-5.  This is where your abuse of two lands per turn is really visable.  During your upkeep, choose to not pay for Chasm.  Now play land 1 (tap it for mana if you need it) and Cast Life from the Loam, or use Crucible to replay Chasm and Sac the other land you played this turn.  You can choose to alternate pay, not pay, pat, not pay, etc.  For a few turns while you accumulate lands in play.  Darksteel Citadel is AMAZING.  Its a recurable weld-land, and It turns your Ghost Quarters into fetchlands. 

Stage 2: Fill the Yard.
Ghost Quarter is basically used to fill your graveyard and give you the ability to fetch for your island so you can activate the Collesium.  Once you have your Chasm Lock and sufficent lands in play.... just start dredging like your playing Ichorid.  Use Gamble to find Genesis or Cephalid Col and go to town.  Even if you don't have a welder in play, you can just genesis him up.  As you dredge those life gainer guys, you can afford to continue to alternate paying for Chasm and not and net your life stable.

Stage 3: Win the game.
Use your welders (with haste from anger), your core tappers (who you can genesis for 3 counters a turn), to pump your Dark Steel Reactor to 10 counters... then "dismantle" it, which will effectively NOT destroy it!  Now I wonder what artifact would benefit most from 10 Charge counters =P
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« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2006, 08:01:09 am »

No sideboard tournaments are interesting, and should not be considered the same thing as type 1, even if they have access to the same card pool.  It really tests your deckbuilding skills as you have to build a deck that is resiliant enough to go up against anything without the advantage of a sideboard.  You can also metagame some hate in your deck, but you have to really plan because you only have so many slots.   Dragon does work, but someone may have maindecked tcrypts and you are just as screwed.

The only thing I dont agree with is that many ban wishes as well.  With no sideboard, you would think this would be ok, but a living wish could get back creatures that were swords, and a burning wish can get a recouped timewalk.

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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2006, 08:57:35 am »

The only thing I dont agree with is that many ban wishes as well.  With no sideboard, you would think this would be ok, but a living wish could get back creatures that were swords, and a burning wish can get a recouped timewalk.

Alot of the players who go to these things don't go to any other events - the reason that sideboards aren't allowed at these things is because these kinds of players feel it's cheating to switch your deck around for someone else's deck.  I.E., they don't know any rules about wishes fetching stuff in sideboards - they usually think wishes are banned from sanctioned events too, just like ante cards, as they feel whoever would have the most money would win everything then.

I used to be friends with a ton of casual players, but just stopped playing Magic with them because my decks that I make (with their cards, no less) are just too competitive.

I've taken Grimlong to two of these things, and it's just not fun.  I won every single game with an absurd amount of ease in both tournaments - they're usually filled with tons of scrubbiness, and the prize structure is horrible.  I stopped attending them, especially when Tendrils of Agony was BANNED by the tournament organizer.

I considered taking Dragon next time, but it would be too many cards to acquire, and I'm not really interested in showing people why sideboards are a good thing.  As well as Force of Wills.

I didn't see a single Force of Will at EITHER tournament.  I mean, I guess I can understand not seeing one the first time around, but when I win easily and explain to everyone how to beat the deck, and they don't, I guess they only have themselves to blame.

Banning Tendrils was just absurd though.
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« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2006, 02:23:26 pm »

Fuck, you might as well take High Tide!
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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2006, 03:03:07 pm »

Alot of the players who go to these things don't go to any other events - the reason that sideboards aren't allowed at these things is because these kinds of players feel it's cheating to switch your deck around for someone else's deck.  I.E., they don't know any rules about wishes fetching stuff in sideboards - they usually think wishes are banned from sanctioned events too, just like ante cards, as they feel whoever would have the most money would win everything then.

In all the ones I have played in, there would be no reason to sideboard as you only play 1 game.  The ones here in ontario have you play a minimum of 10 games in about 3-4 hours, and then after lunch break (usually) the top 32 play in one bracket and the rest in another. Here you play best 2 out of 3.

I used to be friends with a ton of casual players, but just stopped playing Magic with them because my decks that I make (with their cards, no less) are just too competitive.

I have that problem right now.  My local group plays a lot of emperor, star, and free-for-all.  They get bitter when I lock them out with stax, combo out with dragon or gifts (wont work without flamevault anymore), or smack face in emperor with Oath.

I've taken Grimlong to two of these things, and it's just not fun.  I won every single game with an absurd amount of ease in both tournaments - they're usually filled with tons of scrubbiness, and the prize structure is horrible.  I stopped attending them, especially when Tendrils of Agony was BANNED by the tournament organizer.

The prize structure here is great.  We have moxes, duals, foils, etc.  The top 8 in the upper bracket get prizes, and the top 4 in the lower bracket get prizes too (obviously lesser than the top 8 in the other).  There is some aggro that shows up, but it really makes you think about how to deal with it.

I considered taking Dragon next time, but it would be too many cards to acquire, and I'm not really interested in showing people why sideboards are a good thing.  As well as Force of Wills.
Dragon, masknaught, and oath are probably the top 3 decks most of the time here in that format as not all of the tournaments allow power (different type of play altogether).  Combo is usually top in the ones that do allow power.

I didn't see a single Force of Will at EITHER tournament.  I mean, I guess I can understand not seeing one the first time around, but when I win easily and explain to everyone how to beat the deck, and they don't, I guess they only have themselves to blame.

Well that's just crappy players.  Tons of people here use FOW.

As I stated before, players should not consider these tournaments the same as a normal type 1 tournament.  These operate quite differently.  For the ones that do not allow power, it makes you change a lot of decks, and makes others totally unviable.  For the ones that do allow power, you have to figure out how to build a deck resiliant enough to accomplish its goal without any help from the sideboard for tough matches.  So you kicked but with Long, but how would you do against MonoU control without any blue hosers to help you in your sideboard?  How are you going to stop dragon from going off turn 3?  You can put crypts in, but what will you take out, and will they be dead cards against other decks that show up?

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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2006, 02:05:23 pm »

To be perfectly honest, I don't really see that much difference from 10 proxy events. Isn't that changing the rules by the same margin? Both are a matter of preference I suppose.

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« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2006, 02:55:17 pm »

I've never encountered one of these things, so I'm not sure, but I remember when I first heard about sideboard, when I was still a super casual player, and thinking that they felt wrong. I can't remember exactly why I felt that way, but I think it had something to do with feeling that changing your deck around just to beat felt like cheating. "If you don't want to get owned by my Thundermares and Maraxus of Keld, you'd better maindeck that Wrath of Merit-Lage!"
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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2006, 03:24:54 pm »

When I first started playing I wanted to pre-sideboard agianst everyone, even casually, though I didn't have a word for what I was doing. "Hey before we start, what colors are you playing?"
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