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Author Topic: Machine head, hoorah!  (Read 1751 times)
Frank@TO
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« on: April 13, 2006, 10:47:44 am »

I want to create this deck because I have a love for dark confident and red and would like a viable deck where they can be played together Very Happy. Here the list i've been working on so far but its a little weird.

Creatures-17
4 Dark Confidant
4 Grim Lavamancers
3 Gorilla Shamans
4 Goblin welders
2 Viashino heretic

Sorceries and instants-17
4 Duress
2 Cabal therapies
2 Dark Blast
3 Shatering sprees
2 REBs
2 Pyro blast
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

Enchantments and artifacts -5
2 Blood Moons
3 null rods

MANA - 21
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Lotus
4 Bloodstained mires
4 Badlands
3 Mountains
2 Swamp
4 Wastelands
1 Strip mine

First about the deck i would like some imput as to the choices.
Should Mox Monkey be goblin vandals?
Should Goblin welder even be in this deck?
Should Grim labamancer be mogg fanatics?
Is it worth it to try to fit in withered wretch?

THe following is an analysis of the decks in my meta.

Matches
Gifts- Matchup ok
Maindeck REBS and duress probably go a long way as well as null rods/ blood moons. Maybe i should consider tormods crypt altough it is not functional with my null rods :S(anyone got better graveyard removal that isnt double black). Heritic is and rebs is my only answers to tinker collosus. Sad In the board may include more REB. (maybe some diabolic edict?)

Stax - Matchup good
I have a ton of artifact removal but its all slow discounting the shatering sprees. Also Mox Moneky only deals with small artifacts in this match up is it worth a few vandels to deal with bigger artifacts. I also have 6 answers to welder but one of them is slow(4 Lavamancers) would i benifit from fanatics instead? Blood Moon helps vs crucible. Need shatering sprees in the board so i dont lose to chalice for 1.

Slaver- Matchup good
I am not at too much risk with 7/10 but also i can deal with alot of their stuff in the form of mox monkey-darkblast-lavamancers + fast beaters. I fear trike so i need to resolve a null rod early.(also works good vs the majority of this deck hehe). In the board may include more REB.

IT- Matchup ok
Duress helps and so does REBs and null rods. But is it all too little probably too late? pyrostatic pillars in the board should help alot. Also so should the additional REBs as i dont imagine they would board into confidant. Need to find a way to deal with graveyard recursion!

Angel Oath- Matchup bad
need to stop them from resolving the oath, which is imposible unless i get some lucky duresses. In the board for a deck that is R/B there is not many options anyone got some ideas?

Fish - Matchup ok to bad
Fish isnt very vulnerable to my artifact hate think ill have alot of trouble. REB/pyros to be mvp but it may be too little.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2006, 02:09:46 pm by Frank@TO » Logged
Harlequin
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« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2006, 11:28:29 am »

The deck could definately benefit for Withered Wretch!
This gives you a solid way to answer welder and Gifts in one shot, and does not overlap with null rod.  And hes a beater.  Perfect fit, perhapse drop a grim lavamancer or two to make the squeeze.

You probably want more basic swamps.  22-23 mana scorces is probably better anyhow.  And bloodmoon will starve you of Black mana if you don't have a few early swamps.  Remeber you can't fetch after you play bloodmoon.

Diabolic edict is probably good for your board, so you can have a post-oath answer to creatures.  That way you target the player dirrectly.  Akroma is a big stumbling block for this deck because she has protection from your deck.  Perhaps even side out your bloodmoons for Karakas is a good plan against oath... that way you really really catch them off guard.  Its not like bloodmooning thier Orchards really helps you, becuase you need creatures on the board to win.



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Scoops666
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Guess I gotta enter my scoop phase.

Macsticky666
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« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2006, 11:57:14 am »

I'd start w/ this:

-4 Welder
-2 Heretic
-2 Blood Moon

I don't believe that Goblin Welder belongs. You won't be Welding anything in yourself, and can't always rely on playing against Weldable decks. Having something better than a random 1/1 Beater just seems to be a better idea. The same logic also goes for the heretic. He's a great sideboard card, but just too narrow for the maindeck. As Harlequin already stated, Blood Moon will starve you out of black, so it should also get the axe.

Thats 8 Cards out. I'm thinkin...

+4 Withered Wretch
+1 Swamp
+1 Demonic Tutor
+2 Lightning Bolt

Again I have to agree w/ Harlequin (Man he's good.) I think Wretch is an amazingly underrated card in the format. It swings for 2 and completely rapes the graveyard. Amazing creature. The swamp is suggested because you really want 22-23 mana sources. In fact, you could cut 1 Wretch for another land to get that 23rd source if you want to. The lightning Bolts are amazing at dealing w/ any creature up to Juggernaught and can provide a nice punch to the face when you need to just deal some damage. And Demonic just gives you a cheap way to tutor for whatever card you need at the moment- be it a Lightning Bolt, Shattering Spree, Darkblast or whatever.
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I actually had to explain to someone why Mana Drain was better than Counterspell. That was depressing...

Then they asked why Black Lotus was better than Gilded Lotus. I walked away.
Frank@TO
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« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2006, 02:07:56 pm »

Oops there the two cards i wanted to add vampiric and demonic tutor. I'm just worried about wretch being too costly. BB is a lot why couldn't he have been 1b! OK changed with camp Adan demonic tutor.

what do you think about pyrostatic pilllar main?(2-3)

I''ll post somehtign final once i get more comments but wretch will rpolly be goign in welders out. Heritics and blood moons may go out for a swamp or 2 and 3 pillars, as there is a heck of alot of combo at my store.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2006, 02:11:41 pm by Frank@TO » Logged
Scoops666
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Guess I gotta enter my scoop phase.

Macsticky666
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2006, 12:37:45 am »

If there is a lot of combo, then I can agree w/ the Pillars. However, sometimes they may you a little too much against faster, non-storm decks (Gifts, Oath, Stax). So it is a metagame call. However, if your store really does have enough combo then I wouldn't harsh on you at all for adding them.
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I actually had to explain to someone why Mana Drain was better than Counterspell. That was depressing...

Then they asked why Black Lotus was better than Gilded Lotus. I walked away.
pyr0ma5ta
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2006, 12:51:36 am »

I would try and cut the red blasts for Hymn, after you've incorporated the Wretches.  Hymn is a house, especially with all the hand hate you're already packing.  If you're running 2 Tutors, I would definitely cut a Darkblast. 
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Burntgerbil
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2006, 01:04:18 am »

I would wait until dissension comes out before I nail down a decklist if I were you. I just seems like there could be one or two useful nuggets (doubtful) in the new set
« Last Edit: April 14, 2006, 01:11:22 am by Burntgerbil » Logged
RThomas
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« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2006, 02:00:22 am »

Have you considered the option of going to a mainly black skeleton (still splashing red) with Dark Ritual?  I think that Ritual allows you to explode out of the gate in a way that this particular deck does not.  You could then run cards that provide a bigger bang for their buck, like Withered Wretch, Hymn to Tourach, and possibly Phyrexian Negator. 

Also, on another note, has anyone tried Leyline of the Void in a deck like this?  Even if you can't get it in your opening hand, it's still feasably castable with a Ritual, but Withered Wretch virtually does the same thing, and beats for two.  I've tried it, but haven't really liked it in any deck like this one, and am somewhat interested in other results from testing the card.
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